Foundations Of Freedom! Jurisdiction: What Does the Government Have Authority To Do? Interview with Michele Bachmann Part 2!  In this episode, Michele Bachmann joins us as we discuss jurisdiction and how it is so important for government to adhere to its realm of authority. God designates jurisdiction and to preserve freedom, those boundaries need to be upheld.

Air Date: 10/27/2017

Guests: Michele Bachmann, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Foundations of Freedom

David:

Welcome to Foundations of Freedom where we look at important aspects of our common heritage, about which most Americans today have been told absolutely nothing. Joining me today is Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Michele is a federal tax attorney. She is a successful businesswoman. She’s a very successful mom, having raised five of her own kids and 23 foster kids.

She’s also a member of Congress.  And in Congress, she serves on some of the most important committees, such as the House Intelligence Committee which is in charge of our national secrets. Michele great to have you with us. Thanks for being here.

Violations of Jurisdiction Limit Freedom

Michele Bachmann:

Great to be here today.  I’m looking forward to unlocking some secrets here as well.  That a lot of Americans aren’t familiar with, and that’s really dealing with important issues and a scary word called jurisdiction. But it’s actually such a blessing- not only for Americans- because just that issue alone.  

We”€™ll unpack it during the course of this conversation, but people will learn how this gives us freedom. And how this gives us the ability to be able to take what our talents are, and be creative and build up the society. And how where you have violations of jurisdiction in other countries- people aren’t quite so free and now we even see that impact here in the United States.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about it. So I’m looking forward to it. As a matter of fact, do you mind if we start with the first question?

David:

Let”€™s do it!

Audience Question:

There seem to be so many laws addressing moral and religious issues.  Where can you and can’t you pray?  How you can pray, the marriage issue- all those things. I was just wondering, what’s up with all these laws?

David:

Very simple answer is: jurisdictions. That word you were talking about.

Michele Bachmann:

Let”€™s define it first.

Jurisdiction

David:

Jurisdiction; probably the best way to define it is..  Let me give a couple examples. I’m from Texas. You’re from Minnesota. I’ve got a pickup.  You probably don’t.  Mine”€™s red.  Yours probably isn”€™t. And I decide I really like red. So I go over to your house and spray paint your car red.

I can’t do that. That’s not my jurisdiction. That car belongs to you.  It doesn’t belong to me.  I can spray paint anything I want red if it belongs to me. I can’t spray paint stuff that belongs to you.

Jurisdiction Is a Fence

Michele Bachmann:

So jurisdiction, it’s an area.

David:

It’s a fence.

Michele Bachmann:

It’s a fence.

David:

It’s your neighborhood.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s an area, and it says, “€œI have authority right here.”€

David:

“€œRight here. This is my stuff. I’m in control of this.”€

Michele Bachmann:

“€œBut I don’t have authority here.”€

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

“€œAnd I don’t have authority here.”€

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

“€œOr here or here.”€

David:

A neighborhood with all those fences-

Michele Bachmann:

“€œBut not here.”€

David:

Right there.

Michele Bachmann:

But it”€™s not just geography.

Jurisdiction Is More than Geography.  It”€™s Responsibilities

David:

Oh no, no. It’s more than geography.  It’s responsibilities. That”€™s your jurisdiction.

Michele Bachmann:

Give me an example of your jurisdiction in your own life. Where are some areas where you have jurisdiction?

David:

In my own life, I have jurisdiction over what I learn. I’m responsible for what I learn. I’m responsible for what I say. I have jurisdiction over my words. I have jurisdiction over my behavior.

I’m accountable to God for my behavior. I’m accountable to civil laws for my behavior. Those are all things that I can control. No one else can control that. I can’t control your behavior. Now, I might-can punish you if you do something wrong because that’s the jurisdiction of government.  But I can’t control your behavior. I can”€™t control your thoughts.

Michele Bachmann:

And here’s another example. One night I was watching a show, and they have 19 children in this home-schooling family. And one of the little boys said that he had an area of jurisdiction, he was a 5-year-old.

And he had to go, and I think to take the laundry out of the washing machine and put it in the dryer. He understood that this was his area of authority. That’s where he had something to do. So it isn’t just a government official.

David:

No.

Each One of Us Has An Area of Jurisdiction

Michele Bachmann:

It isn’t just an adult. Each one of us has an area of authority, an area of responsibility.  If you’re a husband, if you”€™re a wife, if you’re a child, if you”€™re an employee, employer, or if you’re a neighbor, if you’re a government official. Where it impacts all of us- this issue of jurisdiction- because government is supposed to be limited under our form of government.

So the president only has so much authority- no further- because the Constitution tells the president under Article 2 you get to do this. It be the executive, you get to enforce our laws. But Mr. President, you can’t make the law. That”€™s Congress. I”€™m Congress.

David:

That’s right. Nor can judges make the laws.

Michele Bachmann:

Nor can judges-  That”€™ right. Another area of jurisdiction.  

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because they get to interpret the law.

David:

That”€™s right:

Michele Bachmann:

And that’s when we get messed up a little bit.

For 380 Years In America, God Defined Jurisdictions First

David:

What becomes an important thing here is: Who’s in charge? Who can tell me what my jurisdiction is? And that’s a question that has to be answered.

Now, it was answered originally, for 380 years in America, was- God defined jurisdictions first.  And then within jurisdictions people defined those jurisdictions.

For example, you have Matthew 22:21 where Jesus said, “€œLook, you render to Caesar what”€™s Caesar”€™s.  You render to God what”€™s God”€™s.”€ You”€™ve got a line here that separates them.

That’s where we had institutional separation of church and state. We never separate God out of anything.  But we don’t let church officials run government.  

Michele Bachmann:

So government isn”€™t secular?

Government Doesn’t Run the Church and the Church Doesn”€™t Run the Government

David:

That’s right. Government”€™s not secular. But government doesn’t run the church and the church doesn”€™t run the government. And till we got into about 371 A.D.- Emperor Theodosius.

Michele Bachmann:

Where was he?

David:

He was considered World Emperor at the time. He was taking over the world.

Michele Bachmann:

Emperor of the of the world.

David:

Of the world.

Michele Bachmann:

Why don’t we hear about him?

Emperor Theodosius 371 A.D.

David:

Well, we don’t. And we should.  But we do such a lousy job on history, with a lot of people we don’t hear about.

Michele Bachmann:

Yup.

David:

But Theodosius is the first guy to say, “€œOh, wait a minute I’m a Christian. I decree Christianity the only religion you can follow.  If you’re not a Christian you’re going to get killed.”€

Michele Bachmann:

So he was a government ruler.

David:

He was a government ruler.

Michele Bachmann:

And a government ruler who mandated what everyone’s religion would be.

David:

What everybody”€™s going to believe, and they were going to punish them if they didn’t follow that religion.

Michele Bachmann:

And I imagine that didn’t work out real well.

David:

Well, it led to 1,200 years of what we now call the Dark Ages. And the government officials put the Bible out of reach from the common person. And as matter of fact, when Wycliffe and Hus, and others guys just tried to make it in English so we could read it, got themselves killed by civil officials. Original laws-

Separation of Church and State?

Michele Bachmann:

This is the right time, I think, to interject what most of the viewers have heard; which is Thomas Jefferson- Separation of Church and State. And so most viewers think that what Jefferson was saying is that government should have absolutely nothing to do with religion. Right?

David:

Dead wrong.

Michele Bachmann:

Dead wrong. And what we learn is that not only should government not have anything to do with religion, but we shouldn’t even be allowed to speak about religious things in the public square. But he was writing a letter to the Danbury Baptists, wasn’t he? And in that letter, he was saying just the opposite. Right?

David:

Well, see what you have is, coming into Jefferson”€™s time frame, America was founded fighting for separation of church and state. Because you had Henry the Eighth who said, “€œI’m going to set up my own church. I’ll do what I want to do.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Another civil government official who mandated religion.

David:

Across Europe it was the state taking over the church and saying, “€œHere”€™s what your doctrines are going to be,”€ for the entire nation.

The State Was Taking Over the Church

Michele Bachmann:

The state taking over the church. That”€™s the important point.

David:

It was always that way. And when that happens, when the state takes it over- you do not get freedom of conscience. You do not get freedom of-

Michele Bachmann:

You lose your liberty. And that was what was so big in the United States.  We changed that.

David:

That’s right. For example, the French said, “€œYou will be Catholic.”€ Well, 400,000 people left the country for not being Catholics. They came to America.  They founded largely New York and South Carolina.  But they came here seeking religious freedom.

So you have Protestants that came out of France. You have Jews that came out of Portugal- because they were told you’ve got to be a Christian. Well, they come to America.

Michele Bachmann:

People don’t recognize that there was a large Jewish population that came in.

David:

Large Jewish population.

Michele Bachmann:

Again seeking freedom of conscience, freedom to worship.

The State is Not Supposed to Tell Us What Our Doctrines Are

David:

Seeking freedom. Because the state”€™s not supposed to tell us what our doctrines are. That’s a church response.  It”€™s not a state response. That’s a jurisdiction of the church- not of the state.

But the state has taken over the jurisdiction church. So you get all these people coming to America to say, “€œWe want a separation of church and state. We don’t want the state telling us what our doctrines are going to be.”€

Michele Bachmann:

See this is enormous. And I think people need to recognize what a huge dividing line this was. Yet one more reason why the United States was truly a shining city on a hill.

David:

That”€™s right. It was.

Michele Bachmann:

Because the whole thinking in the world, at that time, was civil government overstepping their authority.

David:

Out of their jurisdictions.

Michele Bachmann:

Out of their jurisdiction. Because if you read the Bible, the Bible tells us what civil government can do.

David:

That’s right. And what the church can do. And what parents can do.

Michele Bachmann:

And what they can”€™t do! But it doesn”€™t say that civil government can tell you or tell me what our religion is going to be.

Jurisdictions Cannot be Overstepped

David:

It tells you exactly the opposite, actually. Because you had King Uzziah in 2 Chronicles 26, who steps into the temple and says, “€œI’ve decided I’m going to become a priest. I’m going to offer sacrifices in the temple.”€

And the priest said,  “€œWhoa, you’re the civil leader.  We”€™re the religious-“€

He said, “€œDon’t ever tell a king what a king can’t-“€

And he tried to offer- and God struck him down at the altar. Because he overstepped the jurisdiction.

Michele Bachmann:

Jurisdiction, that’s how important it is to God!

David:

A government that won’t recognize jurisdictions.  The church wasn’t taking over the government.  The government was taking over the church.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

And it is the one that encroaches most often.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s what Jefferson saw.

The Pilgrims Separated Church and State, But Didn”€™t Take God Out of Anything

David:

And that’s what Jefferson saw. So you have this background.  These guys come to America. When they get here, they separate church and state.  The Pilgrims separated church and state. Now they didn’t take God out of anything.

Michele Bachmann:

Now think of what that means, “€œSeparation of Church and State.”€ What did it look like to our early fathers and mothers?

David:

It was keeping God in the middle of everything. But you did not allow the leaders of the civil government to tell you what church to attend, what your conscience beliefs were, what you would be penalized.

Michele Bachmann:

Because penalty was the key. That was your keyword.

David:

It was coercion.

Michele Bachmann:

Because now civil government would penalize me, because I didn’t believe the way they wanted me to. And guess what? That is not civil government”€™s jurisdiction. Only God!

David:

Only God. And let”€™s roll it forward 300 years. They objected to the government telling you what words you could and couldn’t use when you pray. They objected to the government telling you what your beliefs of conscience would and wouldn’t be; what you would do as *******.

They objected to government saying, “€œYou can’t do these religious exercises in public. You have to do them the private.”€ All the things that are happening today- that government’s doing.  And government”€™s now coercing conscience. Those are religious decisions.

Government was Instituted To Secure Our Inalienable Rights

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right. Because what”€™ve you just done, David, is you”€™ve just tied what’s happened here in America in the last few months, with what the founders foresaw in the Declaration of Independence.

Because the Declaration of Independence made it very, very clear that governments were instituted among men. Why? To secure for you and me, and all of our posterity- my inalienable rights. In other words, government doesn’t have the jurisdiction to give me the right of my conscience. None!

David:

Let’s go back to Jefferson. Because Jefferson got the letter, as you said, from the Danbury Baptists. Now, why is it significant?  They got it from the Baptists? Because Jefferson lived in a state of Virginia that had a state-established church. It was the Anglican church, the same official church Great Britain.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right. This is before we became America- a nation.

David:

Before we became a nation.

Michele Bachmann:

The different states had their own religion. A lot of people don”€™t realize that- a state religion.

Virginia Used to Have a State-Established Church, It Didn”€™t Work

David:

They had established churches. And in Virginia, you had the Anglicans jailing, and killing, and imprisoning Baptist, and Presbyterians, and Methodists, and Quakers.  “€œBecause you aren’t doing the Anglican thing.”€

Michele Bachmann:

And yet you were forced to pay for-

David:

Everybody is forced to pay for the Anglican church.

Michele Bachmann:

And violate your conscience.

David:

That”€™s right. And Jefferson is the guy who stepped in and said, “€œNo. All denominations are equal in Virginia.”€ And so in 1776-

Michele Bachmann:

That’s so huge. That Jefferson said, on his tombstone.  I think you want on your tombstone, what I want on my tombstone– He said, rather than putting on that he was President of the United States, he wanted written on his tombstone that he was the one who was involved with religious liberty.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

To secure religious liberty for every man and woman.

David:

And see, it’s not a secular move. He wasn’t making things secular.

Michele Bachmann:

No. That”€™s right.

Jefferson Did Not Want a State-Established Religion, He Wanted Religious Liberty

David:

He was saying, “€œGovernment. Leave him alone.”€ And so when he becomes President of the United States, the Danbury Baptists are in a state that still has a state established denomination. Even at that point, while he’s president, they still have-

Connecticut did not disestablish their denomination until 1818. So we’re talking 1801 the Danbury Baptist wrote Jefferson and said, “€œWe’re really concerned. I mean we are guaranteed our free exercise of religion. But that’s a government guarantee, and it’s not supposed to be. That guarantee came from God, not from government.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Recently, this has been a big, big issue.

David:

Well, let”€™s take that. Because God establishes jurisdictions, and God covers-

Michele Bachmann:

Areas of authority.

David:

Areas of authority. He said, “€œHere’s what the family does,  what the church does. Here’s what civil government does. Now, within civil government, these are the areas the civil government can do.”€ So in that area, the people become the authority in that area. God’s already established the fences.

Now, how things are going to run inside that fence- we determine. So we come up with the Constitution.  “€œWe the people”€ and it says, “€œFederal government, there’s a lot of governments out here.

We’ve got local governments, we’ve got school board governments, we”€™ve got city governments, we’ve got state governments.  We’ve got federal governments.  

Here’s the deal. We’re telling you, federal government, there are 17 things you can do. Out of all the tens of millions of things–

 

The Federal Government Has Limited, Enumerated Jurisdiction

Michele Bachmann:

Under the Constitution.

David:

Under the Constitution. We’re giving you a constitution. That constitution says you can do 17 things and nothing else. Everything else belongs to us.

Michele Bachmann:

OK, now that’s a really big point.

David:

That”€™s a huge point.

Michele Bachmann:

That is a really big point. Because now government has arrogated to itself so much more than that limitation.

David:

Yeah, that”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

So again, I think we’d want to encourage all of your viewers to pick up a copy of the Constitution.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Pick up a copy of the Declaration. You’ll be floored when you see- the president is only told to faithfully execute the laws on the books.

David:

Who makes the laws?

Michele Bachmann:

Congress.

David:

Oh.

Michele Bachmann:

I am one of the privileged 435 members of the House of Representatives.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “€œAs incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”€

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you”€™ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

Understanding Our Government, Comes from an Understanding of Holy God

Michele Bachmann:

We make the laws.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because that’s what our Constitution said.

David:

“€œWe the people,”€ told you, “€œYou guys make the laws.”€

Michele Bachmann:

So let”€™s rightfully understand our government. It begins from an understanding of a holy God.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Then it begins with that understanding of a God, and people- the people of this country- wrote down in a Constitution-

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

For our protection- the limits of what our government can do is written in that document.

David:

And by the way, let me touch that for just a minute.  Why did we write it down? Because that was not what they did in Great Britain.  To this day, they still do not have a written constitution in Great Britain.

Michele Bachmann:

Yeah, that”€™s right.

Our Founders Wrote Out Our Founding Documents

David:

But you had all these Bible-minded people that came to America. And so you look at the early sermons. For example, Thomas Hooker, one of the founders of Connecticut, preached a great sermon on this.

Why do we write everything down? By the way, Reverend Nathaniel Ward gave them the first written bill of rights a hundred rights that are protected from government. Why”€™d they do that?

Michele Bachmann:

Why not? Otherwise, you don’t know.

David:

Well, but see the reason they did was because that’s the Bible. When God says, “€œHey, I’ve got a nation. I’m writing the laws of my own finger.”€ And then Moses wrote down the laws of Moses.  Then every king of Israel after that, when they were anointed, was to write down with their own hand every law.

That way, we”€™ve got something to go back to. And so we have a written constitution so that every individual citizen can go back to it and say, “€œWhoa. This is your jurisdiction. It”€™s written down right here. Article 1, Section 8, paragraph 8- this is what you can do.”€

Michele Bachmann:

And that”€™s why you have lawyers who go in and contend over one word or one comma.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because it has meaning.

David:

It”€™s written.

You Must Have Fixed, Moral Absolutes

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s why there’s this whole post-modern idea called “€œdeconstruction.”€

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

That words are meaningless. That’s the whole philosophy of relativism. We aren’t about relativism.

David:

We”€™re fixed.

Michele Bachmann:

We’re about a fixed, moral absolutes. Because if you want success, you need to have a fixed moral absolute. For instance, if you and I make a contract together- it protects us.

David:

It needs to be fixed. That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

It has to be fixed.

David:

It”€™s jurisdictions!

Michele Bachmann:

You lose the most important thing you have- your liberty, your ability to be able to construct contracts.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Property law, tort law, whatever it is. You lose that benefit as certainty. So you have a God who is the example of law. Then you have a written constitution. That, under our constitution, you have an executive who enforces the law.

David:

That”€™s right. All written down.

Separation of Powers

Michele Bachmann:

You have the legislative who writes the law.

David:

All written down.

Michele Bachmann:

Creates it. And then the judicial that interprets it.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

But, the judicial can’t be the legislative. The legislative can’t be the judicial. Legislative can’t be executive.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Executive can’t be judicial. And we see that problem where- just one example; we’ve heard recently, that our president may decide that he- by himself -with a pen and maybe a phone, is going to change all of America’s immigration law by himself. In other words, he will write the law himself.

David:

That”€™s not his jurisdiction.

Michele Bachmann:

By his pronouncement. But jurisdiction won’t let him. And that’s a denial of Article 2.

David:

That”€™s right.

The President Is To Execute the Laws On the Books

Michele Bachmann:

Which says to the president, you must faithfully execute the laws on the books. Well, if the law is not on the books.

David:

You can”€™t execute it.

Michele Bachmann:

You can’t execute it!

David:

And you can’t make it.

Michele Bachmann:

And you can”€™t make it.

David:

You guys in Congress make it.

Michele Bachmann:

But if there are laws, like for instance; marriage is between a man and a woman.

David:

Execute it.

Michele Bachmann:

And the president said, “€œI’m not going to execute that law. I don’t think it’s Constitutional.”€ Well, he is not the Supreme Court. The court is the court.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

They’re the ones who need to decide if marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s what people wrote it as. You see it impacts every person watching this show.

David:

It does. Every bit.

Every Person”€™s Life is Impacted By Jurisdiction

Michele Bachmann:

Every person’s life is impacted by jurisdiction. What’s your area of authority? Because when somebody oversteps they’re bound- you lose.

David:

You lose your liberties, your freedoms.

Michele Bachmann:

And that’s why the founders said, “€œThis is everything. This is everything.”€

David:

I want to go into the chamber where you serve because in your chamber-

Michele Bachmann:

The House of Representatives, Washington, D.C., in the U.S. Capitol.

David:

The House of Representatives- around the top, 23 lawgivers are honored. Because that is the place where law comes- out of the House. So you have 23 lawgivers, and they’re all side profile views, except one. And that’s-

Relief Portraits of 23 Lawgivers Exhibited In the House Chamber

Michele Bachmann:

Moses. And can I just say, I have literally had tears come to my eyes. I’ve given speeches on this on the House floor. I stand in that chamber surrounded by the greatest lawgivers in history. *****, Suleiman, Justinian, Innocent the Third, Hammurabi- all of the lawgivers of history.

David:

Grotius.

Moses is The Only Full-Face Relief Portrait

Michele Bachmann:

Like you said,  in their side profile. But above the main double doors- the doors that the president United States enters, when he’s going to give the State of the Union address. That door is the door above that has a full on, full face view, of only one lawgiver. And that’s of Moses.

As we know, a holy God gave to Moses the moral law. And the Ten Commandments, the law upon which every other law has descended.  Upon which no other law- if it violates that moral law- could stand.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

Because that is the ultimate law. How interesting. The face of Moses looks down upon the speaker of the house.

David:

That”€™s right.

When You Become Secular, You Ignore Jurisdictions

Michele Bachmann:

The Speaker stands at the dais and looks up at Moses. So too, the President of the United States, when he delivers his address to the nation, and to the members of Congress, and the Supreme Court, and the ambassadors, and all the heads of state.

This is a very important moment in the United States, when our president does that. He looks directly into the face of Moses. Because we understand in this country, that we are a nation of laws. Not men.

David:

But when you become secular, you ignore jurisdictions. Those jurisdictions given by the lawgiver, the Bible, given by Moses through God.

Michele Bachmann:

And it’s so sad. Because it degrades us.

David:

It does.

Michele Bachmann:

It degrades our liberties, and it degrades the greatness of a nation. And that’s what God understood.  From Old Testament times, the greatness of a nation is built up by His law.

The Ten Commandments Were Given By God

David:

That”€™s right. This is the Ten Commandments, this is what we say.  Moses the great lawgiver- he gave lots of law, 613.  But also the Ten Commandments, God gave it to him. This particular copy is the copy that went to the U.S. Supreme Court case in 1980 Stone v. Graham. This is the case in which the Supreme Court said, “€œOh, you can’t let kids see this they might-“€

Michele Bachmann:

This is the one?

David:

This is the one. “€œYou can’t let kids see this. They might obey things like don’t kill, and don’t steal, and don’t purger yourself.”€

Michele Bachmann:

“€œDon’t lie.”€

The Courts Wanted to Remove the Ten Commandments

David:

The court said, “€œIf kids were to see this, they might obey it.”€

Now what’s interesting is Moses gave this in 1440 B.C. There’s one other lawgiver in the chamber there that precedes Moses. And that is Hammurabi and he’s 1772 B.C.

Michele Bachmann:

Babylonian.

David:

This case that went through- Stone v. Graham. We were involved in a lot of the Ten Commandments cases.  That was a really popular thing 20-25 years ago. And as these were hanging in courthouses.

Michele Bachmann:

Because the effort was to remove them.

David:

Remove the Ten Commandments. You bet.

Michele Bachmann:

Remember the ACLU and other organizations?  Their goal was to strip out of the United States, a sense from all Americans- especially children- to not understand the moral law; the basis of-

In America, It was Easier to Find the Ten Commandments in the Courthouse Than a Church House

David:

The moral laws. That’s right. It is interesting, in America it was always easier to find the Ten Commandments in the courthouse than a church house. Because this is the basis of civil law.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s true! It”€™s true!

David:

Inside the U.S. Supreme Court is more than 59 depictions of the Ten Commandments inside the Supreme Court!

Michele Bachmann:

I”€™ve seen it.

David:

So with all this, as we are going through this case.

Michele Bachmann:

Hammurabi.

The Code of Hammurabi

David:

Hammurabi. The court said, “€œYou know, we could let you leave the Ten Commandments up if you surrounded it with other documents that influenced American law.”€ And they said, “€œFor example, if you were to put up the Ten Commandments, and the Code of Hammurabi, and Justinian’s Code, then we could leave it.”€

Well, first off, that told me they knew nothing about history. Because they think this is too religious. The Code of Justinian, Justinian is one of the lawgivers in the House. The Code of Justinian begins with the phrase, “€œIn the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.”€  And you”€™ve got trouble with this? And you”€™re or telling me to hang Justinian.

And then they say, “€œIt’s got to be documents that influenced American history like Hammurabi”€™s Code- because he’s 350 years before Moses.”€

Timeout. They didn’t discover Hammurabi”€™s Code until 1901. It was not translated to 1904. I don’t think it much influence.

Michele Bachmann:

Would”€™ve been a little tough, a little tough.

David:

And what’s interesting is- why did the Code of Hammurabi not survive? And the code of Moses, why did it survive?

Michele Bachmann:

Tell us.

David:

Let me let me read to you two laws from Hammurabi, and there are 282 laws in his code.

It says- law number two, “€œIf anyone bring an accusation against the man. And the accused go to the river and leap in the river. If he sink in the river, his accuser shall take possession of his house.

But if the river proves that the accused is not guilty and he escaped unhurt. Then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to the accuser.”€ You see, that’s why the Code of Hammurabi did not survive.

Michele Bachmann:

Where in the world- ever in United States law- do we see any of this replicated?

David:

No!

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s nonsense.

The Ten Commandments Applied for 6,000 Years And Will Apply 6,000 Years From Now

David:

This is what we use, and we”€™re saying, “€œOh we can’t acknowledge–“€ See this establishes jurisdictions.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

This is part of God’s law. And this is universal. I don’t care what age you live.  And I don’t care how far you think you’ve evolved.  This applies 6,000 years ago it applies now.  And it will apply 6,000 years from now.

Michele Bachmann:

Tell me which parent wants their child to steal. Or wants them to kill or wants them to go and lie about people, or desire something that belongs to somebody else so much you go and steal it.

David:

“€œBut it”€™s religious!  Separation of Church and State!”€

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right. But what’s amazing is that this is our key for happiness.

David:

That’s right. It is.

Every Person Has an Area of Jurisdiction

Michele Bachmann:

It has been for all time. And it is today.  And again it comes down to jurisdiction- areas of authority. There isn’t one person that’s watching this interaction between us, that doesn’t have an area of jurisdiction.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because God, in His love for each individual.  Again, it goes back to how God doesn’t see us in groups. Think of how amazing God is. That He loves each one of us so much that we have dignity, and worth, and a voice- in a system of government like the United States.

He has given the maximum amount of voice to the individual and yet allowed us to be able to live together at peace among all men.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

What a beautiful thing. And why we must contend for this.

David:

That’s right.

We Can”€™t Let It Go

Michele Bachmann:

We can’t let it go.

David:

That’s our action items.  Because if you going to understand jurisdictions- you have to understand God’s the one who established them. Then once you understand how they work- read the Constitution! That’s what it lays out so many of those jurisdictions. And it tells us what the jurisdictions are. That’s the starting point, is to read the Constitution.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s black and white. It”€™s as clear as it could possibly be.  Article 1, Article 2, Article 3.. How long would it take someone to read it?

Read The Constitution!

David:

Twenty minutes, maybe.

Michele Bachmann:

Twenty minutes.

David:

It”€™s worth reading.

Michele Bachmann:

Everybody can do that. Absolutely everybody has time to do that. But before you do that, take- what 10 minutes?

David:

Yeah.

Read the Declaration of Independence

Michele Bachmann:

And read the Declaration of Independence. That’s kind of the whole philosophy behind the Constitution.

David:

That”€™s the principles.

Michele Bachmann:

You’ve got to read that first.

David:

If you don’t get the Declaration, you don’t get foundation. You gotta get that.

Michele Bachmann:

Because then it puts meat on the bones of jurisdiction- area of authority. But there’s something that even backs up before the Declaration, before the Constitution, and that is–

Read the Bible

David:

Well, it”€™s actually the Bible. Because in that jurisdiction, that”€™s there in the Constitution, you have like the three branches of government that you mentioned. That comes directly out of the Bible. Founders Bible-

Michele Bachmann:

And”€™s what”€™s the scripture?

David:

It”€™s Isaiah 33:22.

Michele Bachmann:

OK, so everybody has to read Isaiah 33:22.

David:

It says, “€œThe Lord our God is our lawgiver, our judge, and our king.”€ That sounds like judiciary, legislative, and executive.

Michele Bachmann:

Yeah.

Separation of Powers Comes From Jeremiah 17:9

David:

And interestingly enough, John Adams himself said, “€œWell, not only that but the reason that we separated the powers, we have checks and balances, is Jeremiah 17:9.”€ What?

Most folks have never read that. The Founders Bible”€™s got all these explanations from founders, and the Bible verses they used. So you start with reading the Constitution, read the Declaration, read the Bible- which includes the Ten Commandments. Learn these things. Get to where you know these.

Michele Bachmann:

Something tells me we’re going to be talking a little more about separation of powers. I think that’ll be very important.

Learn These Documents, Understand Jurisdiction, Know Our Foundations of Freedom

David:

That”€™s a key.

Michele Bachmann:

This is so great. This has been a great, great time. Thank you so much.

David:

Well, these are the documents that are part of our Foundations of Freedom. And that’s exactly what we want to learn and know.

Michele Bachmann:

We got our work to do, and we’re going to do it.

David:

That”€™s right.