Kabeer “KGB” Talks About The Dangers Of Public Schools For Christians:  Kabeer, our guest today, is in the Hall of Fame for Green Bay Packers.  He has a Muslim background and was converted to Christianity, and now has 7 kids! Today he will be discussing the importance of choosing wisely where to send your kids to school.  Public school education is by far not where it used to be. And on top of that, the Biblical foundations which we used to stand upon have been so far removed that we are now not only not teaching the Bible but we are teaching kids to hate God. Tune in now to hear about what we can do to raise our kids with Godly values and a Biblical worldview.  

Guests: Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re discussing today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premiere historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, president of WallBuilders, national speaker, and pastor. And my name’s Rick Green.  I’m a former Texas state rep, national speaker, and author.

Thanks for joining us!  Be sure and join us online as well. You can follow us on Facebook, you can go to our websites WallBuilders.com and also WallBuildersLive.com.

Our Guest Today Is In The Hall Of Fame

David, Tim, we have a topic of, basically, public school education today and how far it’s gone and how bad it’s gotten. We”€™ve got a guest coming on later that’s going to say, “€œHey, parents you really need to think about where you”€™re putting your kids.”€


KGB, we had him on earlier. He’s in the Hall of Fame for Green Bay Packers. Kabeer, he”€™s a great guy. And he, by the way, so folks know he has a Muslim background, was converted to Christianity some 15-17 years ago.

He is a leader in his church, is one of their associate ministers there. He also is very involved in a Christian school. He has seven kids, they are all in Christian School. He’s a guy who”€™s faith means everything to him.  He didn’t grow up as a Christian, he didn’t inherit his Christianity from his parents. 

His father still to this point is not a Christian. But here’s a guy who knows, believes, and has a strong conviction over what Christians should do. Coming from the background he came from he’s just a great unequivocal, uncompromising, spokesman. We had a question recently about schools and school choice and we thought, “€œKabeer is the right guy to answer this.”€


In fact, David, let”€™s just share the question with the audience. It really approaches this subject well on public education. It says, “€œThis Thanksgiving I was reminded of the Pilgrims’ tremendous commitment to live out their faith in Christ and pass their faith onto their children. With this in view, I am dumbfounded by what’s happening in America today in regards to passing our faith on to our children. 

It seems that all major research points to a large percentage of youth leaving the faith by the time they’re in college. Without question, the primary reason for this is that 90 percent of Christians enroll their children in the government school. After indoctrinating them in anti-Christ worldview five days a week, seven-plus hours a day for 12 years, should we expect another outcome?

Perhaps even more disturbing is that I’ve rarely heard pastors, or any Christian leaders for that matter, encouraging people to leave the government school system. Satan is stealing our children right out from under our noses and no one will say anything but a few complaints about the common core or some bathroom law. The whole system is bad and as long as we persist in being a part of it we will continue to lose the fight. The Pilgrims risked their lives for the opportunity to raise their children in the faith and it seems the American Christian doesn’t want the inconvenience of training their kids so they put them in daycare and the government school system. Could you please address this in a future program?”€

That is from Cori in North Dakota. Cori, good question. It’s absolutely a timely question as well. Guys, that’s why we talked about getting Kabeer on to talk about it.

The Birth Of Education In America


Kabeer is somebody that certainly has a very strong perspective on this, but rightfully so. When you look at public education today, or the question was government schools, when they promote postmodernism, they promote humanism, they promote a sexual nihilism and all these things that are contrary to Christianity. They promote evolution in science, I mean, you go down the list of everything that kids are taught.

“€œThere is no God.”€ And so, therefore, there’s no purpose and meaning to life. And kids are in school much longer than most parents spend with their kids and not to mention the rest of culture, and social media, and you have the average teenager-  


You’re going to have 40 hours a week of school. You’re going to have 67 hours a week a social media-


Oh no, even higher than that. It”€™s somewhere between 73 and 78 hours.


So it’s up there now.


Yeah, for young people, and that’s with technology.


And they’re going to sleep part of the time. So if parents think they can overcome you know 80-100 hours a week in 30 minutes at home-


And especially when the point of education was to help equip students with a Biblical foundation. The reason that you go back to the Pilgrims, Puritans, when they first start this educational training it was so their kids could read the Bible. Why do we want them to read? Because we’ve just come out of the dark ages when nobody can read. All these atrocities happen in the name of Christianity.

The reformers step up and say, “€œWhoa, these things shouldn’t be happening, look what the Bible says.”€ So the Pilgrims and Puritans were going back to the Bible saying, “€œThis is what the Bible says. We ought to be living life totally different. Let’s make sure our kids know what this says.”€ They start education to train their kids how to read the Bible, that was the whole point of education. That’s really the birth of education in America.

But today we’ve come so far that now education is hostile toward the very values that education was started to promote and this is why this is a great question, what should parents do in this situation? If we know that’s what these government schools are promoting, and teaching, and training, what should our response be? Which is where we thought Kabeer would give a great answer for this.


Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila will be with us when we return right here on WallBuilders Live.

America”€™s History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history.   Joseph Story is one of the most important names in American jurisprudence. Not only was he placed on the U.S. Supreme Court but President James Madison but he also founded Harvard Law School and authored numerous legal works on the Constitution. While today’s revisionist claim that the goal of the First Amendment was absolute religious pluralism. Justice Joseph Story vehemently disagreed.

He declared, “€œThe real object of the First Amendment was not to encourage, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but was to exclude all rivalry among Christian denominations.”€

According to Founder Joseph Story, Christianity, not pluralism, was the goal of the Founding Fathers in the First Amendment for only a Christian nation is tolerant and thus is truly pluralistic. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.

What Makes Someone Choose A School Over The Other


Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live! KGB is back with us, Packer hall of fame. Kabeer, always good to have you, brother.


Thanks for having me, Rick. I’m glad to be back.


Hey man, we just read this question from a listener, and when we got it and David said, “€œWe”€™ve got to get Kabeer on this, he”€™d be great at responding to this.”€ We read it in our last segment so folks at home have heard it. But it’s a great question about why we as Christians continue to just hand our kids over to a world that is really removing everything that we believe in and that we’ve taught them.  Why do we keep doing this?


You know, I have to say personally, what  I’ve seen people- because I’m on the board of a private school here in Green Bay, Wisconsin, a classical Christian school. But many people say it’s a money. When you”€™re competing with, this case the government school, which is free. But it’s really not free.  It”€™s taxpayers, paid by the taxpayers.

When you have an option where you don’t have to pay out of pocket versus paying for your kids’ education, it”€™s all about priorities. I really believe- here”€™s an interesting situation, I was playing in the NFL and I had my first son in 2002. So right in 2004 or 2005, I’m making millions of dollars with the Green Bay Packers.

And I remember when my wife was looking into private school, and I went to a public school, and my wife suggested that we should send our kids to a private school. And I was thinking, “€œWhat”€™s wrong? I went to public school. Look how I came out.”€ And I had to rethink how I came out.


That’s another show, right?


But you know what it came down to for me? I had the option of having something for free, have all that glittery, the sports, and the other things. And when you look at the private schools, what do they have?  

It takes a lot of money to run, just like the public school, but the private school is privately funded. That’s all it really is, it”€™s privately funded. That”€™s not the only difference, one is Christ centered and the other one is secular.

Train Up Your Children In The Way They Should Go


You hit the sports real quick.  Talk about that because that’s a big part of it in my hometown. It’s like, “€œNo, we wanted them to play for the hometown team. I grew up there, I graduated there.”€ And that’s the priority rather than how your kid is going to turn out in terms of what they believe for the rest of their life.


Well, and that’s what was going to say. So me, being an athlete who public schooled, went to get a scholarship, and the eventually got drafted to the Green Bay Packers. I mean, sports is a big part of my life, my lifestyle, everything that I have, God blessed me through athletics.

And obviously, I have seven children, and I see some our kids have some athletic ability. And I had to ask myself this question, “€œWhat’s the priority here? Is it training up the next generation for Jesus Christ? Or is it just training up the next generation for sports? To be the next sports star?

And here’s the deal, I think because I had a different vantage point that most parents don’t have. I’ve made it to the top, I’ve been to the mountaintop, and I’m telling you it is empty. It’s not always what it”€™s cracked up to be. It”€™s filled with these people, with millions of dollars, and at the end of the day, it’s empty. And I’m thinking to myself, “€œIs this what I want to prepare my kids for? To get to this point, to realize there is nothing at the end of the tunnel?”€

And I’ve been walking with Christ for the last 16-17 years and I”€™m telling you, what He told that lady I well, “€œThe water I give you, you will never thirst again.”€ I can honestly say, following Jesus Christ up to this point in my life, I have yet to have to go back to a well because it’s empty, it continues to grow. It just amazes me how deep and how wide Christ’s love is for me. Here on earth as it is in heaven.

How Much Is Your Salvation Worth To You

So, I would not want to trade my salvation, or my kids’ salvation to put him at the altar of sports. And I think that a lot of parents are putting their kids at the altar. People may say, “€œKabeer, you”€™re being judgmental.”€ And that”€™s why I- And I also blame the church. Another thing that I see is that the churches don’t even encourage parents, either home school, or homeschooling, or Christian school, some form of Bible believing or a Biblical worldview.

Churches are not doing it. I don’t *. I don”€™t even see Churches supporting, for instance, like our school is a standalone school, so it is not connected to any church. And you would think that- but we have 26 church representatives.

And you would think that the church can say, “€œHey, we want to help our members that go to your school. We want to make sure that we can make it affordable for them so when they least give, you know, five hundred dollars per kid that comes from our church to be able to help with the cost.”€ You know, something like that.

You don”€™t see that. They look at it like, “€œThat’s your problem. We just want to run our church and keep our overhead. And let”€™s keep on doing the once a week thing.”€


And maybe even speaking out on it, it’s almost like we don’t want to talk about that because it might make parents feel guilty for not- And I’ve even caught myself before saying, “€œWe love homeschooling, but it’s not for everybody. And everybody can”€™t afford it.”€ Now I”€™m going, “€œWait a minute, if I love my brother and my sister and I want their kids to grow up in Christ and not be led astray and not have to deal with all that junk that happens, then I should be saying, “€˜Hey find a way, it’s worth it. Believe me, the benefits are worth it.”€


Amen. And I say this, “€œA wound from a friend is better than a kiss from an enemy.”€  And I think that in the church we are so afraid to offend people that we don’t tell the truth.

So I have decided to advocate for this stuff. When I heard about this interview I was like, “€œGreat.”€ But if we as Christians can really love our brothers, Jesus says to love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul,  and the second greatest is to love your neighbors. And we truly love our neighbor.  It”€™s not like we are saying it to be judgmental, or being hateful, we”€™re just saying, “€œMan, I love your kids, I love children.”€ Jesus loved children, Jesus said, “€œUnless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven in the kingdom of heaven.”€

So when I see children I can’t help but to want to share the love with them and talk to their parents and say, “€œReconsider where you send your kids.”€ What they are teaching them at that age it”€™s such an impressionable age right now. We want to put good stuff in there and put the foundation of God’s work hidden in them and not the world.

The Difference Between Public And Christian Schools


Well Kabeer, you probably see the benefits. We do a lot of speaking at fundraisers for private schools or homeschool groups or whatever and then, of course, our Patriot Academy program we see the results. But you see the same thing, both at the school that you’re working with and you probably do some of those dinners as well.

But when you hear those stories from the kids themselves saying, “€œMan, I was going to a public school and then this and this happened and then I came over here and wow.”€ Or the parents talk about the life changes in their kids.

I mean, when you see the evidence it makes sense. For those listeners at home that maybe don’t get to see that every day. What would you say to them about what you’ve seen in terms of lives being changed?


I just talked to a family that we are discipling and they’re in the public school. I think their son is in the second or third grade, third or fourth grade. And I asked him, “€œLarry, How do you like Providence?”€ He says, “€œOh, I love it, it”€™s good.”€ and I said, “€œSo what was the difference?”€ He said, “€œWell, one I don’t have to fight every day.”€ “€œAre you talking about physically fighting?”€ “€œYeah, there was always fighting and I was always worrying, I  had to defend myself.”€Â 

You know, he would get in trouble. This kid actually got in trouble.  He’s the one that got a lot of calls from the school. His parents were like “€œWhat’s happening?”€ And now he is at this school and he is an A student,  he loves. He says, “€œThe teachers love him and let him pray.”€ He loves that is the difference.

You see, there’s a huge difference between the government school versus the Christian school. So when I hear testimonies like that- Again, I had a family that said, “€œIt”€™s too expensive to send my kid there. We’re going to send them to the to the public school.”€Â 

I’m going to be honest, but one guy said that his daughter is in kindergarten, kindergarten and already they’re teaching them about homosexuality and talking about how that’s a good thing. And the little girl said, “€œMommy I heard in school that that’s another form of a family.”€ And the parents didn’t have a way to say. That’s not fair, they need to have a say. And so now they want to pull their kid out and put them into a Christian school.

Public School Is Teaching Your Kids To Hate God

And so it’s happening, I mean kids are being trained from a view to hate God. When kids come out there’s a chance that they will come out to being a God-hater, not a God lover.


And very cynical at the very least, jaded and cynical about all things religious. And you mentioned the homosexuality issue.  I live in what used to be a small rural town. And and, you know, your country school kind of deal where the values were still good. But I’ll tell you, man, we’re fighting the transgender thing right here in our community.

In an elementary school you”€™ve got a kid that thinks that they’re the other sex and so the whole school- Now all these kids are being taught as a result of that that this is normal and this is ok. So you’re 100 percent right. I mean, even as little kids they’re being exposed to it and taught these things in this in those formidable years.

When Will The Church Step Up


Let me ask you this question, why aren”€™t churches supporting Christian education? Either home school, or others, why are they not the advocates for that? Because I’m thinking just from a business, I’m a financial guy, thinking from a business, “€œIf I want to keep people coming back and get people converted-“€ you know, when they leave high school or go to college 80% are leaving the church.

And I”€™d think that if I wanted to keep the retention, I want to make sure I train them up. the company. You see companies doing this, companies like Home Depot. They do this stuff every first of the month. They make some type of car, they give these kids little aprons, it”€™s a branding thing so that when kids get older they will go to Home Depot, right?


Yeah, they got a positive association.


Yeah. So I’m thinking, “€œWhy are we not? Why wouldn’t we do that? Wouldn’t that be good from a business perspective, from a growing perspective?”€ Instead of letting them do it and hope that these people come back.


It’s a great point. And Kabeer, you talked about even from a business perspective, one thing we’re fortunately seeing more and more of is that churches are saying, “€œWait a minute, we’ve got this building sitting here five days a week. We need to be teaming up with a private school or starting our own private school. And just from a dollars point of view being good stewards of  what God’s given us.”€ That seems to be working as well. I mean, a lot of churches are waking up to that and saying, “€œHey, we want to be a part of the solution and we’re going to use our resources to do that.

Informing Yourself


Well, praise God. That’s one of the things we’re trying to battle here in Wisconsin, obviously where I’m at. But I have to tell the parents, “€œYeah I went to public school. Yeah, I made it to the NFL. But the only thing I can tell you is that Jesus Christ by far outweighs any of the benefits of playing in the NFL. I’m glad, I’m thankful for the right stuff, to live comfortably, but I wouldn’t trade it for Jesus Christ.”€

And I tell parents, “€œEven sports, we can make our sports better. If the church and the people invest in Christian schools. We can start running good Christian schools that have all the resources that the public schools have. But we”€™ve got to make it a priority.”€ And right now I just don’t think that parents understand that children should be a priority, as they call it to be parents.

And again, I just don”€™t think that the church is teaching it. And what I mean by that is, I’ve heard one Pastor tell me, “€œKabeer, a lot of these parents are just lazy.”€ And I said, “€œI don”€™t know if these parents are lazy, I think they just don”€™t know.”€ And it kind of reminded me of the  * in the Bible, right?


Yeah, somebody has to show me.


If nobody is showing them, or teaching them, then how would they know? Like for example, I’m not a big fan of children’s ministry, right? Once again, I think is there is that mentality that it”€™s the church’s job to teach the kids. And it takes away from the parents from doing their job.

And we’re trained to say, “€œHey, just hand over your kid and we”€™ll take it from here.”€ And things of that nature. And I’m saying, “€œNo, that is my job. I’m supposed to be the spiritual leader, when do I get to have a chance with my kids?”€

You have school all day, cheerleading, and by the time I get them their like, “€œDad,  we”€™ve been gone all day, can we just rest and have fun?”€ and then the dad never really get”€™s to do what he was called to do in the first place.

So I’m always an advocate. I send my kids to a private school but I love homeschool. It lets parents be able to be hands on with their children. But if that’s not an option, a private school, and now with technology, you don”€™t even need to. You say, “€œMan, that is so expensive.”€  Now there’s a homeschool online.


The tools are there. I mean, there’s so many options for folks. I think it’s a great wake-up call to say, “€œLook, you need to really think about how much time your kids are getting in an environment that’s going to instill the right values versus how much time they’re getting in either a neutral environment which is not good either or it’s really seriously teaching a leftist philosophy.”€


Rick, I don’t think there’s a natural option.


That’s right.


They will come in there.


That”€™s exactly right, you”€™re 100% right. Hey brother, appreciate you, man. Thanks for speaking out. Thanks for the good word.  Let’s get you back again soon.


Thank you so much, God bless.


Stay with us folks.  We”€™ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.


Hey, guys, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. I know you hear my dad and Rick talk a lot about our Founding Fathers about the original intent of our nation, a constitutional heritage that we have. And really we’ve seen how far we slipped away from that. And I know a lot of us as we hear my dad and Rick talk think, “€œI wish there was a place that I could go where I could see these documents and I could read and learn about the Founding Fathers firsthand.  See the things they did.”€  

I want to give you some websites today that can help you accomplish that very thing. If you get online you can go to places like Library of Congress and you can look under their century of lawmaking or historical documents. You can go to the Avalon Project, to the Founders Constitution, Google Books, or even the internet archives.  

Or you can just go to WallBuilders.com. We have a section for our WallBuilders Library. And under that section, we have different subgroups for historical documents, historical writings, even a place where you can get helpful links to find out more information about other websites.  Where you can do research for yourself and find the truth for yourself. Friends, this is the time that we need to know who we are and where we came from. WallBuilders.com is a great place to go.

It”€™s All About Priorities


Welcome back thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for KGB coming on again here on WallBuilders Live. Back with David and Tim. Guys, I thought that it was cool that he admitted, “€œMy first reaction was, “€˜Wait honey that’s going to cost too much and can  just put them in public school.”€ And then they really started looking at it.


Well, as he said, it’s all about priorities. You will find a way to fund what you think is important. If I tell you, “€œI’m going to give you a contest and if you can earn a hundred thousand dollars this year I will give you five million tax-free at the end.”€ You will go out and get as many jobs as you need to so that you can get 5 million.

If see the right perspective you will do whatever it takes to get that done. So he’s right, it is all about priorities. Jesus told us in Matthew 26, “€œWhat does it benefit you if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?”€ Is anything worth more than your soul?

What do you get if you make a good living and your kids lose their soul? Well, what are you not willing to pay for that?

We know statistically that between 50 and 80 percent of Christian kids renounced their faith in secular education, they just don’t survive it. And so Jesus tells us real clear, and by the way, in Ephesians 6:4 it says, “€œFathers bring up your children and the discipline and the instruction of the Lord.”€ Now, you can’t do that in secular education.

Go ahead and practice on me just talk to the radio now and say, “€œHere’s the way I’m going to explain this to Jesus when he says, “€˜Why didn’t you bring your kids up?”€™ Oh, Jesus, it’s ok because I put them in public school because I was really busy and I had so many things going on.”€ There’s no excuse you can come up with that”€™s going to be a good excuse when you have to answer to the Father for why we didn’t do that.

And so to give away the soul of our children this is a really big deal. I love what Kabeer said, “€œThere is not a neutral environment.”€ You can’t put them in a place where there is neutrality, it”€™s going to be for or against. Jesus made that real clear with his disciples, “€œIf you’re not against me you are for me.”€ It’s simple stuff.

Where Are Your Kids Getting Their Values And Beliefs


And obviously, it”€™s a very strong position to take as we’re saying this. And I can imagine that as many people are listening now going, “€œWell, I don”€™t know how I feel about that.”€ And that’s fine, but if you take time and process, take time and think through, take time and pray about and look at the content of what is being taught. Read the Bible, compare what the Bible says and what is being taught-


And look at the statistical outcome right now of what’s happening to kids.


Exactly, and not that you cannot be a Christian in public school and not that you don’t have some kids that are Christians that do a great job the school because there are. My wife is a teacher in a public school and I know many Christians that teach in public school and we kind of joke that they’re missionaries, right? But the reality is statistically it is against a young person who wants to be a Bible believing, Bible acting, motivated person.

Statistically, the odds are against them going through high school or I mean really, starting elementary school middle and school high school but going through that and coming out with the same Biblical faith that matches the Bible, whether or not you look at it now that fourth-sixth graders are being given sex-ed. Or you back up to first and second grade and they’re being told to pick the gender of who you want to be.

You start looking at the issues that they are confronting compared to the Bible and ask, “€œIs this what I want my kid to go through?”€ Because they’re getting a lot more training with that than they are at home by mom and dad.


Share the story you had of the teacher in Houston, the school teacher in Houston. Yeah, I have a friend who is a teacher in Houston, he is a science teacher and they were told in their in service- and he’s a high school teacher, he was actually put up for Teacher of the year so he’s a phenomenal teacher. But he was told in there in their in-service that if a student asks a moral question they are not allowed to give a moral response.

So if a student says, “€œIs it wrong to steal because-“€


This is the example they gave to the teachers, this is what they told the teachers.


“€œIs it wrong for me to steal?”€ The teacher cannot tell a student, “€œYes, it’s wrong to steal.”€ The teacher is required to ask the student, “€œWhat do you think you should do?”€ And whatever that student responds to teacher is required to say, “€œWell, you should do whatever you think is right.”€

So they’re promoting a subjective morality, a subjective truth in this case. “€œWell, whatever you feel, whatever you think.”€ And that’s what’s being promoted according to the school district. So even a teacher thinks that’s wrong can get in trouble for saying, “€œYes, stealing is wrong.”€ Because morality is subjective and everybody has to decide for themselves.


Wow. And that’s what we’re subjecting our children to. And when I say, “€œwe”€ I mean as a nation and certainly as a church in this nation. Very very topic to think about folks. I encourage you to share this with your friends and family, get them thinking about it as well. Thanks for listening today to WallBuilders Live.