Locke”€™s Two Treatises of Government: Pro-Family Legislators Conference Part 3 With David Barton.  The Two Treaties has 1500 references to the Bible and is what the Declaration is largely based upon.  The Constitution is an easy to understand document that has stood the test of time for 229 years when the average constitution of other nations is only 17 years.  It is important that we educate ourselves and elect only those who will uphold our constitution.

Air Date: 02/02/2017

Guests: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture! This is WallBuilders Live, with David Barton, America’s premier historian. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state rep. It”€™s a privilege to work with David here at while WallBuilders. You can find out more about our organization at WallBuilders.com and also WallBuildersLive.com.

We’re always talking about the hottest topics of the day on policy, faith, and the culture all from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.  David Barton founded WallBuilders 25 years ago based on the idea out of Nehemiah that if we will arise and rebuild the walls we can no longer be a reproach. That’s what we’ve got to do.  We got to rebuild the foundations of America and that’s why WallBuilders is a national pro-family organization presenting America’s forgotten history and heroes with an emphasis on our religious, moral, and Constitutional heritage.

WallBuilders has been recognized from coast to coast for its work in education, history, law, and public policy and always integrating the elements of Biblical faith and morality throughout all aspects of American life and culture.

One of the things that we do is put on a legislator’s conference.  So state rep, state senators, leaders, and people in government from across the nation gather once a year in Dallas at the Pro-family Legislators Conference. It’s a chance for them to exchange ideas, to sharpen each other’s countenance, and to take those ideas back to their states and get some good legislation passed.

They get to hear from a lot of great speakers that sow some great information into them. Of course, David Barton has an opportunity to speak a couple of times to them.  And we want to share some of that with you. The last couple of days we’ve given you the first part of a three part series from one of his presentations there at the legislator’s conference.  The day before yesterday was part 1.  Yesterday was part 2.  And today is the conclusion.  

As of today you can get all three parts on our website right now at WallBuildersLive.com. Share that with your friends, family, on Facebook, or however, you want to get the word out there.  It’s a very good strong encouraging message. Let’s pick up where we left off yesterday for the conclusion of David Barton speaking at the Pro-family Legislators Conference.

There Is A Bible Verse For Every Right In The Declaration


When you look at the Declaration, every single right set forth in the Declaration had been preached from the American pulpit prior to 1763. It’s a fun thing to do.  Read the Declaration sometime and look at it as a list of sermon topics. See if you could come up with Bible verses for all those rights.  Because that’s what they did. We’ve got the old sermons from those days to show you how the Declaration was built out of the pulpit.

So, that’s prior to 1763. Then when you get the Declaration itself it was largely based on the writings and John Locke. Richard Henry Lee said that they copied the Declaration from Locke”€™s Two Treatises of Government.

John Locke”€™s Two Treatises of Government includes 1500 References To The Bible

I have long said that Two Treatises of Government, John Locke in that work cited or referenced the Bible on 1,500 occasions. Two Treatises is about an inch thick and about 400 pages long.

An article came out last year by an academic named John Fea who just mocked me and said, “€œHow stupid is Barton? There are only 121 references in there.”€ And it’s on a Biblical worldview website. So, it”€™s out there.  

So what I’ve been doing the last several months is I’ve gone into John Locke”€™s Two Treatises and I have documented every time he quotes a Bible verse. The deal with John Locke is he didn’t always tell you he was quoting a Bible verse because everybody knew it back then.

If I said, “€œFor God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.”€ Most of us would say, “€œThat’s John 3:16.”€ If I said that to the guy on the street they wouldn”€™t know what I was talking about.  They don”€™t know John 3:16. Well see, here’s a Biblical worldview guy who didn’t recognize Bible verses throughout John Locke’s piece.

So, I’ve already documented that 1,500- way over. It’s an embarrassment for a Biblical worldview academic to not recognize the Bible.  But that’s a difficulty we have now.

How Government Should Work According To The Bible

If you have never read John Locke”€™s Two Treatises of Government it”€™s worth reading. I would recommend waiting about a month and I will have it out in a more modern form. The way they did things back then they capitalized every other word essentially, and they had 43 commas per sentence.  It’s just very difficult to read.  

So we’ve taken the prose and the syntax and made it modern. The words are still his but it’s easier to read without 43 commas a sentence.

You ought to read John Locke”€™s Two Treatises of Government.  It is exactly every…I could not believe how applicable it was to all the things going on today and what he did with the judges and what he did with everything else. It”€™s just unbelievably accurate stuff.

The Founding Fathers used that work in shaping our civil government.  We teach these kids at the School of Government is that you start in the beginning with the Book of Genesis. Genesis is called, “€œThe Seed Plot of the Bible”€ because everything is in the beginning. Every major doctrine of the Bible gives back the book of Genesis.

In Genesis chapter 1 there is God.  God then creates man  in chapter 1.  In chapters 1-3 you get Adam and Eve and the family. So, answers about the family and family institutions come from Genesis 1 – 3.

Genesis 9 God says, “€œHere’s how I want your government work.”€  He gave seven civil laws. Here’s what you do with murderers. Here’s what you do with thieves. They’re called the Noahide Laws because he gave Noah the first civil government in human history.

Then by the time we get over in Exodus he says, “€œHere’s what my vertical relationship with you is going to be.  The temple will be called the church”€ on the New Testament side.

Parents Are Responsible Not The State

So, those are the three institutions.  So you have those 3 institutions in man.  Each of them is a separate institution and all created and ordained by God. Each one of them is very distinct.  For example, when you look at their separate jurisdictions there are certain things that belong only to them. You look at the Bible.  For example, in the family of the Bible it says to raise children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Educate your kids. That’s never a command given to the government.  It’s never command given a church.  It”€™s always a command given to parents.

Parents are in charge of the education of their kids. That’s why all the way through about the 1970s we used to say by the Supreme Court in cases, that there’s a fundamental right of parents to direct the education and upbringing of the children including in public schools. That”€™s why parents had veto power over public schools.

If something was being taught to my kids that I didn”€™t like, I can veto it because I’m the one responsible for them. Not anymore.  Kids are the wards of the state. The Bible only gives education powers of children to parents. If parents want to give part of that to the state, Local Parentisis is what that was always called, that”€™s fine, but parents are responsible for education, not the state.

Pastors Only Briefing Trip


Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com.  And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor”€™s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Biblically Government Is Designed To Protect


You also have a government where the only time the sort of civil justice is given to any institution is to government. Now, as an individual I can bear the sword of self-defense.  Others can bear the sword.  Family can bear that sword.  But nobody else gets to bear the sword of civil justice, except government.

To the church it talks about raising people up for the work of the ministry.  Nobody is doing the ministry training except the church.  No other entity has been given that power does that. So, there are things in the Bible that are specifically commanded that though one jurisdictions to the other, and this is where we often get off with taking care of the poor. We’ll see a Bible verse that says, “€œFeed the hungry.”€ And we think government should do that. No, he was talking to you, or he is talking to your family.

So you have to see what jurisdiction these verses are pointing at.  Every time you read something the Bible say, “€œTo whom was he talking?”€ And then you see the jurisdiction.

When you get these jurisdictions, because man is involved they can’t all be totally separate. Man’s involved in all three, so there’s going to be some overlap. So they’re not completely isolated and that’s why if you look at how they can cooperate you get a good Biblical model again of what government can do and can’t do and what it”€™s jurisdiction is and what it”€™s jurisdiction is not.

For example, if you look at man and his relation to the family, well this man is also related to government. He is a citizen of the government.  How can how can family and government cooperate? What’s a common objective on which they can both cooperate and still be within the sphere of their jurisdiction but not violate that which belongs to the other? And yes, they both can work on creating strong families because that’s good for government and that’s good for the family.

That’s why we used to be adverse to the marriage penalty tax, we wanted to reward you for marriage not penalize you for marriage so they gave all sorts of marriage deductions rather than marriage penalties. That’s creating a strong family, Anything that you do to strengthen the family helps in both entities.  So that’s one way.

Don”€™t Blend These Jurisdictions

You take family and you look at church.  What can those two do together that helps both of them? Well, you can try to build strong Christians. That helps the family and that helps the church. So that’s something they cooperate on without compromising their the integrity of their jurisdiction.

Then when you look at the church and the government what can they cooperate on? Well, they can cooperate on building strong citizens because that helps both of them. Now, the way we used to do that is out of the church’s viewpoint. Daniel Webster, the great defender the Constitution said as well as anybody, “€œWhatever makes men good Christians makes them good citizens.”€ And that’s true.

If the church is building good Christians you get good citizens.  And that’s good for the state.  So the state ought to be encouraging the church to do that. That’s why we had faith-based partnerships, not the government taking over faith, doesn’t regulate faith but we encourage it.

Cops aren’t arresting good Christians for drive-by shootings, for gang violence, or breaking into the store at night.  That’s not the Christians doing that. It might be bad Christians doing it, but not good Christians doing it.

That”€™s what we used to understand.  And that’s why in all of these three jurisdictions we understood that they can cooperate together. But we also understood that they’re all very separate jurisdictions and you don’t blend them. That’s where you start teaching lines of government. We do this also with federalism.  This belongs to the local government.  This belongs to the state government.  This belongs to the federal government.

The federal government has been given 17 things they can do. The Tenth Amendment says that everything outside out of the 17 belongs to the states. And the state Constitution gives things to the local. And so you understand jurisdictions.

What we”€™ve got now is the feds get into everything that are the states.  The states are getting into everything local. It used to be home ruled districts where the school districts didn”€™t belong to the state they belonged to the community. They were community schools and therefore we had much more local control.

So, that’s part of that understanding of government and that’s how you get limited government. The fourth category is of politics and the final one I”€™ll cover is that of the Constitution.

John Jay, the original chief justice U.S. Supreme Court, authored the Federalist Papers, I love this statement he gave on the Constitution, “€œEvery member of the state,”€  that”€™s citizens not just legislators.  “€œEvery member of the state ought diligently read and to study the Constitution of this country.”€

There is a difference between reading and studying. “€œRead and study the Constitution and teach it to the generation.  Teach them to be free.”€

George Bush made a comment that everybody agreed with.  I did for a while until I thought about a year ago and I said, “€œThat’s not true.”€

He says, “€œEveryone has an inherent desire to be free. They all want to be free and given the opportunity, they will be free.”€ No, if got rid of the government in China today, for people who have been in slavery their whole life they’ll still be in slavery after you get rid of that government.  Because that’s all they know.

If you train a dog to stay in the cage when you open the cage it will come out but it always goes back in that cage. It”€™s all it”€™s known.  So you have to teach them to be free.  People don”€™t know how to be free.

Look what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We freed them.  How’d that workout? Not very good because they didn’t know how to be free. You have to read and study the Constitution and teach them how to be free.

Freedom is not something that comes naturally or inherently.  You have to learn how to be free. He says. “€œBy knowing their rights,”€  Once you study the Constitution, and teach them how to be free,  they will then know what their rights are.  And once they know their rights they’ll sooner perceive when they’re being violated.

“€œHey you can”€™t do that.  I know my rights in the Constitution and I know how to be free.  I perceive you are doing something you shouldn”€™t.”€

He said, “€œThey will then be prepared to defend and to assert, be defensive and offensive.”€

We can defend our rights or we can assert our rights. There are seven verbs in that statement. You need to read the Constitution, teach the Constitution, study the Constitution, know the Constitutional rights, perceive Constitutional violations, defend Constitutional rights, and assert Constitutional rights. That’s a perfect formula for what you do with the Constitution.

The Constitution doesn’t work right unless you understand those other three areas. The Biblical worldview, the providential history, and then the view of government. So within that framework of the Constitution, there are three questions I’d like to ask people about the Constitution.

American History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently overturned the jury’s sentence of a man convicted of the brutal murder of a 71-year-old woman because the prosecuting attorney had mentioned a Bible verse in the courtroom.

Consider what happened in the 1778 case, Respublica versus John Roberts. Thomas McKean, a signer of the Declaration of Independence was the chief justice of that court and addressing John Roberts after the jury had sent him to death for treason. McCain told him, “€œYou will probably have but a short time to live before you launch into eternity. It behooves you to repent of your evil deeds. To be incessant in prayer to the great and merciful God to forgive your manifold transgressions and sins, to teach you to rely on the merit and passion of a dear Redeemer.”€

This prominent Founding Father actually delivered a salvation message to the defendant in the courtroom. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact wall builders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.

Can The President Answer These Questions


When this presidential campaign started out, 17 Republican candidates, I could have asked these three questions to all 17 of them. I think only one could have answered the question.  I think two more would have tried.

Here’s three questions about the Constitution.  Real simple questions.

How many articles are in the Constitution?

How many amendments are in the bill of rights?  and

What are the five rights in the First Amendment?

Those are really easy questions that most people can”€™t answer. Here’s why ask them.  Those easy things right there,  that’s defining the rules of the playing field. I’m telling you what the boundaries are. Here”€™s how many articles there are.  Here”€™s how many rights there are…  I haven’t even given you the inside.  I”€™m just giving you the outside.

If you can’t answer those questions right there then you have no clause. You have no idea what the take care clause is, a necessary and proper clause, or interstate commerce clause, or general welfare.  You don’t know what any of those clauses are.

The Constitution is not a complicated document. Matter of fact that the book that we use teaching these kids is an 1828 elementary book on the Constitution that covers these things right here. That used to be we taught in elementary school to every kid on the Constitution. That’s why we went back to use the 1828 book because we used to know this stuff.

See, if you can’t answer those first three questions, then you don’t know how to apply it, which means you don’t understand your jurisdictions. You don”€™t understand what a state can do, what federalism is, what the federal government can do.  So all of that.

George Washington said this, “€œThe Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon.”€ But then only works if you know what the Constitution is. That’s what we have to teach and make sure people know.

The Weakest Branch

I was one of the people chosen to help write the Republican platform of 2016. When I got back this time they recognized me because I was there in 2012 to write the platform. They told me I set the record in 2012 because in writing the platform 2012 I propose 140 amendments to the platform and they accepted 139. I broke the record. Nobody ever proposed that many amendments.

“€œAh, it”€™s you again.”€

So this time I proposed 70 amendments and they took all 70. One of the amendments was judicial activism.  For the last two times, I’ve been on the Constitution Section.  And so the section of the Constitution  one of the amendments I put in was an amendment talking about judicial activism.  It”€™s in a section of the Constitution, about how judges are out of control and the judges have stripped the people of their power to govern themselves. We believe in the Constitutional checks and balances and that the founders intended the judiciary to be the weakest branch.

I had objections to that from some of the political officials, some of the U.S. Senators.  “€œIt”€™s not the weakest branches.”€ Time out.  Read what Alexander Hamilton said in Federalist 58 and Federalist 73. Hamilton says, “€œIt’s by design to be the weakest branch. It”€™s so weak it can never jeopardize the other.”€

Really? The federalist said that?


See, the U.S. senators didn’t have a clue. “€œWell, I thought it was three co-equal branches.”€ Yeah, that’s what your law professor taught you. But he’s nuts because that’s nothing the Constitution teaches. Constitution teaches it”€™s the weakest branch.  

So the founders intended judiciary to be the weakest branch. “€œWe encourage Congress to use a check of impeachment for judges who unconstitutionally usurp Article 1 powers in tandem with a Republican Senate. A new Republican president were brought to the court to a strong conservative record that will follow the text and original meaning of the Constitution, our laws.”€ I got that into the platform.

Impeachment Is The Most Discussed Topic In The Constitution

Once that got pasted a bunch of flurries happened.  They got all bent out of shape.  And they called for a quick recess. Then they called me over to talk to me.  I went over there.  Some of our conservative US senators and their staff, they were going ballistic.

They said, “€œYou”€™ve got to take that out.”€

I replied, “€œTake what out?”€

“€œYou’ve got to take the part about impeachment out!”€

I said, “€œWhy?”€

“€œYou can’t put that in there.”€


“€œBecause we don’t believe that.”€

I asked, “€œWhy don’t you believe that?”€

And as I pointed out to them the checks and impeachment, which is what really upset them.  The Founding Fathers said that’s the easiest check to use because in the Constitution itself there are six clauses saying how to use impeachment. There’s nothing in the Constitution that”€™s discussed six times except impeachment.

That’s a big deal to them.  It was so big they put in there six times.  We”€™ve always used it historically. We’ve had 63 impeachment investigations and 15 impeachment. We use this all the time.

But these guys were saying, “€œWe don’t believe that.”€

I said, “€œWait a minute.   You swore to uphold the Constitution right?”€


“€œIt’s in there six times. We”€™ve used it 63, we’ve impeached 50.”€

They replied, “€œYeah but we don’t believe in it.”€

See, that’s part of the problem. We”€™ve got guys in the U.S. Senate that had the ability to stop the court.  But they don’t believe in the Constitution because they never read it. They’ve only been told what they were taught at law school. That’s not the kind of people you want in office.  You want people who actually read the Constitution.

So, they were opposed to that.  But it’s still in there. Afterward, they got one of the state’s attorney generals and they brought it back up.  And they  reviewed it and they brought it back up.  And they  debated again and the attorney general…

But the people got behind me and said, “€œNo, we want impeachment. We want these judges stopped.”€ It was cool that they, the platform overwhelmingly crossed what they wanted. But they’re still the ones in office.  And they’re not going to do it because they disagree with it, which is just crazy.

Abraham Lincoln says, “€œDon’t interfere with anything in the Constitution (including the impeachment clause) that must be maintained for it is a safeguard of our liberties. The people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”€ That’s the way the Constitution is to be used.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional. And you might be thinking, “€œAs incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”€

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you”€™ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and bring a speaker to your area.

The Average is 17 Years Between Revolutions Unlike America”€™s 229


Thomas Jefferson said it this way, “€œIn questions of power then let no more be heard of confidence in man but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”€ But you can’t bind him down from mischief if you don’t know what the Constitution says. You can read the whole Constitution 30 minutes or less. It’s not hard. The clauses are easy to understand.  We just don”€™t study them anymore.

Daniel Webster said, “€œHold on to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster. And what has happened once in 6000 years may not happen again. So hold on to the Constitution.”€

See that’s a generation we had.  Now we’re a different point now where teaching the Constitution is not really helpful.  As a matter of fact, one of our Supreme Court justices, Justice Ginsburg said that if Donald Trump wins the election she’s moving to New Zealand. I”€™ll buy her ticket.

Voice from crowd and applause


“€œI am with you, Bill.  I said the same thing.   I said, “€œ I will  pay for your moving expenses. I’m happy to.”€

I thought her job was to uphold the Constitution not to care who is in office.

One of our other Justices, Stephen Breyer, last year wrote a book saying that it’s time to get rid of the Constitution.  “€œWe don’t need to use it anyway.  It”€™s not very good.”€

We”€™ve got two justices who we already know they ignored it anyway.  But now they’re out in front leading for change. Matter of fact, Ginsberg when the court finishes the session in June and they stay out till October that’s when the Supreme Court justices travel the world and go to other nations.

She was in other nations saying, “€œHey, young nations do not copy the American Constitution.  It”€™s not good. I recommended if you want a Constitution copy the one from South Africa. That’s a really good Constitution.”€


We’ve had one Constitution for 229 years and South Africa can’t keep theirs. They keep turning over.  Why would you keep”€¦.?

See that”€™s cause and effect.  But we don’t teach cause and effect anymore.  We don”€™t teach what works and what doesn’t work. If we did everybody would want the American Constitution.

For 229 years, the average length of a Constitution in the history the world is 17 years.  We’re at 229. I think I like what we’ve got rather than what they had. 17 years?  I don”€™t want to have a revolution every 17 years.

Training The Next Generation

That’s what produces good politics.  Now I am throwing this at you.  You guys hopefully know this if not hopefully it gives us an ammunition but you really need to start teaching some replacements for you.  Because you won’t be in office forever.

Don’t just choose one replacement  for you.  You know how people are.  If you endorse your replacement they’re probably going to lose.  Because people don’t like to be told who to vote for.

You need to be training about 15 or 20 people that could replace you at some point in time. When you decide to move on or you get term limited out or whatever, train them.   And train them with those foundational principles to get them through that stuff so that when they get there they’ll start putting the nation back in the right direction. And if they’re not going to replace you then you go and recruit some for school board.  Go get some for city council, and some for mayor.  And train on that same thing.

“€œA mayor doesn’t deal with Constitutional issues.”€ That may be true right now but he might decide to run for higher office. And you don’t want him going higher until they know their Constitution. So I don’t care if they run for the dogcatcher. They need to know those foundational principles all the way through.

In the case of Jim Wright, the former Speaker of the House, our little town of Weatherford where are back when it was 4-5 thousand people out in the sticks, he was a city council member there. He got elected by 200-300 votes.

Boy, if we would”€™ve screened him back then we wouldn’t have the Speaker of the House that we had. But nobody’s screened him back because it’s only a city council and who cares about city council? But he went from city council, to mayor, and right on up the line.  And that’s why you screen them. All this to say, that’s that’s the challenge.  Find folks you can pass that on to.


Well, that was David Barton the conclusion of his presentation there at the Pro-Family Legislators Conference. If you have just tuned in today for the first time go to our website WallBuildersLive.com and you can get the archives for yesterday and the day before. It’s a three-part series from David’s presentation there at the Legislative Conference. All available to you right now at our website WallBuildersLive.com.

In fact, I encourage you to take those links and send them to your friends and family.  Because it”€™s an encouraging and powerful message that I know they will enjoy.  We’d love to share it with them.

In fact, you might want to share it with your legislator’s friends. If you know some state reps and senators send that to them.  I guarantee you they will benefit from attending that legislators conference this coming year in November. So have them check out the website there.  We will have  links today where they can get the Pro-family Legislators Conference website.  Hope you enjoy this three part series from David Barton speaking there at the legislator’s conference. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live!