Maricopa County Forensic Audit Continues – With Rep. Mark Finchem – There are still very important reasons to verify the election. The Maricopa County audit continues, and Rep. Mark Finchem joins us today to discuss it!

Air Date: 06/28/2021

Guest: Rep. Mark Finchem

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

 

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live, we’re taking on the hot topics of the day, but we’re looking at them from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. That conversation today is here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor impression of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach.

David, Tim, later in the program, Mark Finchem is with a state rep from Arizona, where a recount is going on right now, alright, we should say a forensic audit, not a recount, a forensic audit. And you know, a lot of people say it’s too late to do anything. There’s no point in doing any of this at all. But even if you weren’t going to change the outcome of the election, aren’t there good reasons to verify what actually happened for future elections?

David:

You know, this is such an interesting thing, because you should want to know that it’s a good election, you go back, you verify it, you say it’s exactly what it looked like on election night, now, we feel good about the election. Or, hey, it’s not what we thought, hey, this is not a good deal. We need to fix this before the next election. Either outcome should be good.

And I’m really intrigued with the fact that right now Maricopa County, which is Phoenix, and Phoenix has five on the election board, and they’re for the five of Republicans. And they are suing the legislature, seemed like a lawsuit every week to keep the recount from going, to keep the audit from going. So you’ve got this essentially, Republican electoral board suing the Republican legislature, the Republican governor trying to stop the forensic audit. And the reason is they said, we’ve already counted, we announced the results, and we’re right, and you’re questioning us. Oh, my gosh, let them count it and then say, see, we told you so, nothing changed.

I mean, you should want to know the result of this. If you’re on the city side and said it was a great election, if you’re on the state legislature side and said, we’re not sure it’s a great election, just get the results and find out.

Tim:

Yeah, if it’s an honest election, there’s nothing to fear. If it was a dishonest election, you want to know where there was dishonesty, so you can correct it for next time. But either way, going back and reviewing the results is not something that should be feared, it’s something that you want to make sure you did a good job in the first place. And if you didn’t, find where there were errors and correct it to make sure you don’t do those in the future.

David:

So it’s a big deal in the news and we thought having Mark Finchem, state representative on, he’s been right in the middle of this since election night to give us kind of an update on where they are with that forensic audit.

Rick:

Going to take a quick break here, Mark Finchem with us when we return on WallBuilders Live.

AMERICAN STORY

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And yet what we see through history, and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to wallbuilders.com and check out The American Story.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Our good friend, Representative Mark Finchem is with us from Arizona, great supporter of Patriot Academy and WallBuilders, and all around great guy. Mark, great to have you, brother.

Mark:

Rick, I am so honored to be on your program. This is one that I try very hard not to miss each week, because I know that I’m going to get fed good food.

Rick:

I love it. I love it. Well, man, we were thrilled to have you. And of course, we’re very familiar with you. A lot of our listeners became familiar with you back during the election results and all of those things. You were one of the few Republicans across the country willing to take a stand when it needed to be taken. And I just thank you for what you’ve been doing.

Mark:

Well, it’s my pleasure. I mean, my wife and I and some of the select members that were on the committee that we call to have a public hearing on election integrity. We have paid a dear price, and particularly me, they’re attempting, the hard radical left is so angry with me they’re trying to recall me as a representative in the House of Representatives, of course my response to them was to file for Secretary of State.

And right now we’re at the halfway point after nine weeks of filing. I’m at the halfway point of getting the signatures that I need to have in order to make it out of the ballot, so overwhelming support for that. And I think the reason people are supporting me is my constitutional stand on legislative authority over elections. And the three biggest points for the Secretary of State run are look, we were entitled to fraud free elections, we’re entitled to a transparent election process, and we have never given up our right to scrutinize an election.

In fact, the event that I’m at right now, folks say, well, why are you scrutinizing us? You know, this is the first time Rachel Maddow, for example, doesn’t like the fact the reason at this well. She supported Al Gore when he wanted to scrutinize an election. So how is that different? Just because orange man bad narrative, is that what makes it different?

Rick:

No, kidding. Yeah, because shouldn’t we welcome questions? I mean, shouldn’t we want to know we got the right answer, I mean, regardless of which side is asking ghe question?

Mark:

Oh, that’s an hallmark of a free society.

Rick:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

If you don’t have that, you have an oligarchy, and it’s basically similar Cora. It’s an illusion that you are voting, an illusion that you are somehow consenting to be governed in a certain way, that’s not so.

Rick:

Well, and you took a lot of heat. Again, we were calling on Republican reps in those key states, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Pennsylvania to stand up and stop the nonsense and fight back against the breaking of the law, and end run around the Constitution. As you said, it’s a constitutional issue, the legislature is supposed to make these decisions.

Mark:

Rick, I think courage breeds courage.

Rick:

Yeah.

Mark:

And what I can tell you is over the last three weeks, we’ve been visited now by 12 different states, start off with Pennsylvania. Wisconsin has been here. Michigan, Washington State, believe it or not, South Carolina, Georgia, of course, my good friend, Vernon Jones, who’s running for governor who’s here, and he was just incredibly impressed by the attention to detail and the rigor that is around this forensic audit.

He said look, this is the standard that every state should adopt the way they’re doing this, which is interesting, because we’ve never had a forensic audit in the United States before. So the team is being very cautious to document everything. Everything is video recorded, everything is put to paper, so that we can go back and offer this up to our sister states, that if they want to make sure that their election was fraud-free, and that it was free and fair, then they’ll have a template that they can use for that.

Rick:

Amen. That’s so good man. And you know, Mark, I think you know this about me, my first race was a recount. So I’ve been through that tight race, every vote counts situation. And we did a recount and we looked at every vote together, my opponent and me and when it was all said and done, it switched from him being announced by 20 votes on election night to me being announced by 36 votes after the recount. And I looked at him, I said, you know, look, do another recount. Texas law says you can do a second one, let’s make sure we got it right. He said, no, we looked at every ballot. Everybody was not happy with the results, but felt confident about that we got the right result, because we had exactly what you just described: transparency, verification, and legal remedies if you needed them to make sure the first two happened. You guys are doing right now verification, and by recording everything, the transparency is there. I think you’re right. That’s the model that we should have all across the country.

Mark:

Well, and we’re getting a lot of questions. In fact, they got a question from one of the reporters here today. You know, what is the purpose of this forensic audit? And I think she was expecting me to prove that Donald Trump won. Well, no, the evidence will prove that. The process is what’s important about this. We need to establish, to prove or to disprove that discrepancies in the system existed, and that those discrepancies may have been responsible for an award of electors or office to somebody who didn’t win it. Hard stop. It’s to prove or disprove. It’s not to do anything else. So the far left radical media agenda is to impugn this. We got 12 states that are saying, no, this is the right way to go.

Rick:

Yeah. It’s interesting that that many states have come to visit you. I saw a couple of headlines in conservative media that Pennsylvania had been there. But that there is this much curiosity tells you that people are hearing from their constituents. The constituents want free and fair elections that they can have confidence in. I got to ask you, Mark, the fact that you’re running for Secretary state, you know, my buddy Jody Hice is running over in Georgia. This is not a, what’s the right way to say this, this is not a glamorous position…

Mark:

And it isn’t sexy.

Rick:

It isn’t sexy. In our side, usually, we tend to shy away from those offices, but the left has dominated those offices for a long time, because they’ve been willing to go run for them. George Soros has funded a lot of those races. So my hat is off to you, brother. I think we need our people running for these offices. So to you and Jody, both, thank you for being willing, because like you said, it’s hard work. It is not a fun position to be in. Everybody’s going to be unhappy with you at some point when you’re in that kind of a position. So thank you for doing it, first of all. And then secondly, is it going to be a contested race, you think in the primary? Do you think it will be?

Mark:

Oh, my gosh, yeah. My wife Tanya and I have prayed over this a lot. And because I’m a seven year, and I’ll be getting my fourth term finished next year as a state legislature, and I’m termed out. And her question to me was, I know, you’re being called by a lot of people to run for Secretary of State and I know that you’re kind of on the fence, do you go home, you stay involved?

And after a couple of days of prayer, she said, I got one question for you. Do you know of anybody who would do a job in this office that you would approve of? I said, you know, honestly, I can’t think of anybody. I can’t think of anybody that would be that Exodus 18:21 man or woman who would stand and say, choose from among you, leaders, disinterested in personal gain. I’m not interested in some higher office.

In fact, you know, when I’m done with serving as Secretary of State, it’s my intention to go back to my life of leisure, ranching, just dealing with cows, because they don’t argue with you a whole lot. I’d be delighted to go back to that. But in this time, God puts a mission on our lives, and that’s why prayer has been so important for us through this. And we do believe that this is the mission field for us now.

Rick:

Yeah, it’s for such a time as this, bro. I mean, it just is, we need we need you there. No doubt. Okay. What can you tell us about the audit itself at this point? I know it’s still going on. I know, there’s some stuff you know that you can’t share. What can you share with us about it? And I’m like you, I keep telling people we’re not doing these audits, or recounts at this point to overturn the election. We’re doing it to make sure this doesn’t happen again and to let people know, in the future, we’re going to be doing this and hopefully, a lot faster.

Mark:

This is about public policy learning. If we’re going to fashioned public policy to address issues that appear to be either fraudulent or incompetence, we need to develop public policy that’s based upon fact, what happened. We need to understand that first. And again, it goes back to my first comment about to prove or disprove that there was discrepancies. And if those discrepancies were there, did it result in somebody receiving an office award that they weren’t entitled to?

Rick:

It’s almost like a quality control for the corporate world.

Mark:

Yeah. Yeah. And I’m a six sigma process engineer. So it stuns me that we don’t have this in place already. But be that as it may, it’s an opportunity for us to do a course correction. We have, for intents and purposes, the paper ballot inspection and count is over. There’s a few ballots, some of the federal only, which by the way, I think is unconstitutional. So there’s the federal only ballots and then we’ve got some ballots that are Braille, that we need to count.

But the bulk of the ballots that was done, and we’ve moved into a new phase, and it’s going to be an image analysis as one of the checks and balances in this. That’s probably going to take, I’m guessing 10 to 14 days. Then you also have the canvass that apparently Garrett Merrick Garland is utterly terrified over. He’s so much threatened with criminal prosecution, the Arizona Senate, if they do a canvass, and they are found to be intimidating voters. Well, my question to Mr. Garland is how do you intimidate a dead person? You know, you show up at some of these, Anderson says, Bob Smith here, no, he died. Oh, okay.

Rick:

Well, how can they claim the canvassing is intimidating? I mean, I get it. They’re trying to say, oh, just because you’re checking on whether or not somebody actually exists, that’s going to make them not want to vote in the future? I mean, come on.

Mark:

Yeah. It’s so thin you can see through it, man. But they’re just trying to obfuscate the real issue and not everybody’s going to be contacted. They’re only going to places where we know that, for example, the address given is a vacant lot, okay, or government building.

Rick:

A voter that lives on a vacant lot.

Mark:

Yeah. Or somebody who is known to be deceased or somebody, there’s just all kinds of things that you can find in canvass. So that’s going to be done. I don’t believe that we will see the comprehensive report until the end of July. We might see something that’s an interim report between now and then. Some of the stuff that we really need to get our hands on, and when I say we, I’m talking about the Senate is the Splunk logs from the routers. I mean, that is kind of like imagine looking at your…

Rick:

Wait, say that again, the?

Mark:

Splunk logs. What it is, is it’s the log of data in and data out through a router. If you were to look at it, it looks very much like your cell phone bill. Who did you get phone calls from? And who did you make phone calls to? And how long were those calls? Now the only thing the cell phone bill doesn’t show you is how much data actually went across the wires?

Well, those logs are very important, because they will tell us whether or not the Dominion machines were hooked up to the internet. Dominion says they weren’t, okay, fine, let’s prove that. And if that’s the case, can we identify the size of the packets were sent out, were brought in all of that. And by the way, Mike Landbell has done a fabulous job in tracing some of that down. And he’s announced [inaudible 16:44] in the war room, that he’s going to have a cyber election elections symposium for all of the folks who have an interest in this that are credentialed to come in and twist the wheels off of the work that they’ve done.

So during the election, there were some white hats apparently that were able to observe surreptitiously what happened on the way of data coming out of and going into various areas. And thank God, they thought to record that. So there’s this thing called P-Cap, it’s Packet Capture, they were actually able to capture the packets of data as they were moving. And they should be able to decode that so that they can look at what happened.

My own County, for example, Pima County, in Pima County, roughly 47,000 votes were observed to be moved away from President Trump. Two different intrusions, and I know Mike well enough to know that he isn’t going to put something up that hasn’t been vetted, vetted again and vetted again. So this is not over by a longshot. There’s still a lot of work to do.

But again, I go back to the notion that this is not about overturning an election. Now that may end up being a result, we don’t know yet. But the important question is, can we prove or disprove that there were discrepancies in the election? That’s target number one. And then to reinforce the authority of the legislature to do its job under the Constitution.

Rick:

Yeah, how are your discussions with other legislators around the country on that topic, the fact that really the legislature’s failed in in asserting their constitutional authority? When the state’s election was in question, they could have gotten rid of that question and gotten rid of the uncertainty and the doubt and gone ahead and chosen the electors themselves? Have you talked to many legislators that recognize that authority that they have? And are they just afraid to use it?

Mark:

Yeah, I’ve talked to a few. Most of them have been stunned by the level of detail for our audit, but I’ve talked to a number of on the phone. And I know that Rudy Giuliani has made some comments to some of the legislators here in Arizona, and ask them, do you understand the level of power that you have under plenary power? Do you understand where your power is coming from? And quite frankly, their answer was disappointed. They didn’t know.

Well, as you have advocated so many times before, and I know Nathan has spoken about it at Patriot Academy, if you don’t know your rights, if you don’t know how to exercise your rights, how do you expect to defend them? If you don’t know your authority as a legislator, how do you plan to exercise that authority to the benefit of the people who put you in that office to exercise that authority? It’s a simple thing for you to understand.

And, you know, right now for example, we got something under review. I had written a paper leading up to this whole steaming garbage cheat back in November, dealing with the question of, in Arizona for the legislature to be called into session, either the governor can do it, or the legislature with the two-thirds a super majority can call itself into session if the governor refuses to. And, as you know, our governor’s not exactly been accommodating.

Well, the question becomes if you are acting on a federal duty, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 2, you’re acting on a federal duty to act in a state statute prevent you from convening to exercise that duty. I’m advocating for the position that a simple majority 31 members our of 60 and 16 out of 30 in the Senate should be sufficient for us to call ourselves into session and to examine the proof, deliberate on the facts and come to a finding out. But our leadership disagrees.

Rick:

Yeah, I agree with you completely. And I think that’s what where we dropped the ball in these other states as well, the leadership wasn’t willing, governors weren’t willing to call them in to solve this problem, and the legislative leaders weren’t willing to use their federal authority to bring themselves in. And Rob Nielsen and others have written on that subject. I mean, I think you’re right. I think you’re absolutely right.

That might be one we have to clarify in a constitutional amendment, or at least have at the state level have some sort of policy clarification. Mark, I’ve kept you longer than I said I would. You know, as far as the audit itself goes, do you think that the numbers will be different enough than what was it, 10,000 votes in Arizona once they finally verify?

Mark:

Yes, sir. I do.

Rick:

And so even if Arizona corrected, at that point, if they could, I mean, it’s been certified, so there are legal questions there. It wouldn’t be enough to overturn the presidential election, but it certainly would overturn where the electoral votes from Arizona should have gone?

Mark:

I can’t say that. I think there is a possibility, and I don’t want people to hang their hats on this, but there is a possibility that if we were able to determine that Electoral College electors were improperly awarded to one candidate when they should have gone to someone else based upon what we find, that is going to be an issue for the Arizona legislature to wrestle with. And history will not treat them kindly if they do not exercise their plenary authority can get the job done. No matter how popular they might want to be, we have a solemn responsibility to that.

Rick:

Yeah. Yeah. Man, oh, man, it’s going to be a treat to watch. And you think end of July is probably when we get to that point.

Mark:

I think end of July, early August.

Rick:

Yeah. Well, brother, you got to come back, keep us updated. It is incredibly interesting to watch. I actually like the fact that they’re keeping the cards close to the vest and finishing the job before they announced the outcome.

Mark:

Well, I think, yeah, credibility to the process. But this is not a running gun kind of thing. Doug Logan, and the cyber ninjas’ guys, cipher, Randy Polam who’s helping with it, I mean, this whole thing is being run just like I would expect it would be run in a corporate environment. But thank you for the opportunity to talk with you.

Rick:

You bet. Hey, Mark, God bless you. Keep up the great work. Wish you the best in your secretary of state run and look forward to having you back later this summer.

Mark:

Alright. Votefinchem.com.

Rick:

Votefinchem.com is the website. We’ll have a link today at wallbuilderslive.com. And David and Tim are back with us. David, Tim, so there’s a lot going on in Arizona, as Mark was saying some he can’t share with us, some that he can. You know, clearly there’s some results there that will help us learn for the future. But he also makes it sound like, you know, hey, this could change what Arizona certifies with regard to the election itself?

Tim:

Well, yeah, and one of the things to guys that we’ve talked about off air before is even if Arizona changes their results, it doesn’t change the national conversation necessarily, or the national outcome of this last presidential election. It might change some of the conversation, not the outcome of the election, because the election was in fact certified. And even if you had several states come back and say that we found fraudulent activity that this is not good, that it should have been a different president, at this point, the election has already been certified.

So all you can really at this point is say that we’re going to make sure that that level of fraud or those situations don’t happen again in the future. But this is exactly the kind of information you would want. You would want to know was this a fair and just election? And maybe in some situations, maybe it was a fair and just election, but we didn’t have the level of transparency that was needed to help affirm for people that it was fair and a just election or maybe there was in fact fraud at multiple levels.

And so you’re going to be able to identify where was their fraud, and we need to make sure we correct it so that fraud cannot continue in the future to potentially influence the outcome of elections. So either way, you’re going to get information that you can utilize in a beneficial and successful way for your state. But even if Arizona goes a direction that says that their election was fraudulent, it wasn’t valid, it should have been somebody else, it will not change the outcome of the certification from this last presidential election; Biden will still be the president.

David:

But I thought it was great what Mark pointed out too as well, that courage breeds courage, and the fact that they’re doing this forensic audit, now 12 states have come to them to look at it and see how it’s been done. So that’s already a good thing for the future, because they’re now getting a vision of how to do something in their state. As he pointed out, they’re looking at this and saying, hey, this is exactly the way it should be done. So this is a great thing for the future already before we even hear any outcome at all.

Rick:

And for those who say that, you know, too late, don’t do anything, shouldn’t be just think about it, if the IRS never audited anyone, think of how many people would cheat on their taxes, right? So having the audit afterwards is still important, if for nothing else to influence future behavior. And like you said, Tim, verify where we got it wrong. Where do we mess up and how do we fix that for the future? So, really important work happening in Arizona, good to get an update from Representative Mark Finchem. We’re out of time for today, folks, but we sure appreciate you listening. Make sure you visit our website wallbuilderslive.com. That’s the place where you can make a one-time or monthly contribution, and also get some archives of the program from the last few weeks. Thanks again for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.