Mask Mandates, Election Fraud, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom: What did the Wisconsin Supreme Court say about the governor’s mask mandate? What have the democrats done to the rule of law? Should we still vote even thought the elections seem fraudulent? What is going on in Arizona concerning the 2020 elections? What is the difference between a republic and a democracy? Should the 8th Amendment protect California churches from excessive fines? Tune in to hear the answers to these questions and more!

Air Date: 04/22/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


Download: Click Here

Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think they’re not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. You found your way to WallBuilders Live. And WallBuilders, by the way, comes from that scripture in Nehemiah that says rise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be ever approach. Folks, we’ve got foundations falling apart in America. And it’s time for us to rebuild them. So there’s a lot of wisdom there for us to gain and we want to share that with you here on WallBuilders Live.

So be sure to visit our website, you can get archives of this radio program from the last few weeks and months. And you can also learn more about us the host of the program. I’m Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. 

And I’m here with Tim Barton, he’s a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders; and also David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders.

And today his Foundation of Freedom Thursday. So we’re going to be diving into your questions. And if you’d like to get more of these Foundation of Freedom Thursday programs, also at that website,, you can get those in the archives. Send your questions into [email protected]. That’s [email protected].

And last thing while you’re there at the website,, very easy to make a one- time or monthly contribution. That’s a great way to come alongside us and help expand the reach of WallBuilders Live. 

Every time you make an investment with $1, that goes to training more pastors or legislators, our young people are adding stations to the programmer, reaching more people with constitutional education, biblical perspective, and of course learning about the history of our nation and learning the truth about that history.

So David and Tim, WallBuilders Live is a listener-supported program. So supporters out there, listeners that actually support and donate, we’re so thankful for them. Lots of folks from all across the country donating all the time, sometimes they do one-time gifts, sometimes they do monthly gifts, but all of it helps us to expand this program and reach more people.


Yeah, unquestionably, Rick, we are so grateful for all the people that have supported us. Actually, for many, many years we’ve been on different stations and networks, and really just big picture, the work we’ve been in on WallBuilders. When my dad started this back in 1988, we’ve had people partnering with us from all the way back then and lots of friends and lots of prayer warriors along the way.

And so we are so grateful for the people who come alongside and pray for us, support us financially share this information with their friends. We’re definitely growing and amassing a group of warriors that are out there fighting this culture to make a difference. And we’re so grateful for all supporters.

And obviously, we are very open to having more partners along the way, both prayer warriors and intercessors. We would love that if every time God reminds you of WallBuilders Live or one of us individually that you would just pray for us. We would so appreciate your prayer covering any financial support. We’d love to have more partners along this journey as we are fighting to make a difference in this culture.


Well, one of the ways that you can also help us at the program is send in good questions, [email protected]. We love getting to your questions on these Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs. And we’re going to dive right into the first one all the way from Wisconsin. I say all the way, because for us that’s way north of where we are here in Texas.

Wisconsin Supreme Court Ruling

But anyway, out of Wisconsin, Chris sends in a question about the Supreme Court recently overruling governor Evers’ mask mandate there in Wisconsin. And he said, “However, a couple of the counties have still issued mask mandates through June, even though the state Supreme Court overturned the mask mandate. 

“Is this legal? When does it become perpetual and illegal?” And so a little bit of a technical question here, guys, but yeah, this is a second good decision from the Wisconsin Supreme Court. They had given him a hard time months back on even all of his emergency orders and sided with the Republican legislature there and looks like now also overruled the mask mandate.


Rick, I’m going to change your wording just a little bit. They did not side with Republican legislature, they sided with the state law. And I would say that that’s a difference in the sense that the law says that once an emergency order expires, you have to have the legislature reissue it. 

You can issue an emergency order, and it last 60 days. It can’t last 60 days unless the legislature re-opposite.

So there was as you mentioned earlier, the Wisconsin Supreme Court said hey, you go and pass your 60 days. And he ignore that. And so this is last year where they first did this. And then following that he came back and he said well, I’m going to extend this through July. Now this is July, last year, and then through September and then I’m going to do it through February. 

And so the next one was April. And it was set to go out on April the 5th of this month, so just few weeks ago. And so what happened was the court said, no, you can’t do that. You have 60 days, and we’re striking down three of your extensions that you’ve done because you only have 60 days. 

We told you that back then, and said the legislature even voted in this session to repeal the mask mandate. Despite the fact that he has no authority to keep doing it, the legislature went on record again and said, we’re putting our foot down, you can’t do this.

And they’ve also gotten Evers on several other things as well, the courts have. So Evers keeps acting like he’s the dictator in this place and he doesn’t like the state legislature being involved and he doesn’t like the laws that are there. But the court has upheld those laws and said, no, this is the law of Wisconsin, and you’ve got to follow the law.

Now, it’s interesting to me, because the question says, well, Eau Claire, you get to city of Eau Claire that immediately came out said, well, we’re doing a mask mandate. And can they do that? Can they make it perpetual? 

Mask Mandates

And I would have to know specifically the Wisconsin code, but I can’t imagine that the code says that it takes legislative approval to do it for the governor, but a city can do it without that. I mean, that doesn’t make sense.

The court upheld on the fact that this is a state law that says you cannot extend an emergency past 60 days without legislative approval. And so since the legislature has cut this off and said, this is over, this is done, and the governor kept extending it, I don’t see how a city can come in and say, well, the governor can’t, but we can. And this is really more of the rule of law kind of thing that we keep seeing with…

And I hate to say this, but across the nation right now, the Democrats have made the rule of law kind of a mockery in so many areas. Whether it be with tearing down statues, and we’re not going to follow the rule of law on a restaurant, stopping protests, or whatever. And we really don’t care what the rule of law is on mask or executive orders for COVID type stuff, or we don’t care what the rule of law isn’t. And they just keep doing these things.

 We’ve seen this even with a Biden administration, where we have laws that say what immigration policy is to be, and he’s just set them beside through executive order. We have laws that say what a lot of policies should be. Matter of fact, the budget of Congress passed by Congress last through the end of this year, and he’s just putting out executives say, well, I don’t agree with that budget, so we’re not going to spend the money that way. No, no, that’s already a law, that’s passed. You can affect next cycle, which is the 12 months coming up at the end of this year, but you can’t do it right now.

So this has been a real problem in some area. But to go back to the question, no, there should be no authority for the city of Eau Claire to be able to do something the Supreme Court just told the governor he can do. But it’s like the city of Eau Claire say well, we don’t care what the court says, here’s what we’re going to do, and I understand separation of powers…

And I understand that we have talked on the fact that if we think a court is absolutely unconstitutionally wrong, then there may be some civil disobedience involved in the sense that a governor or even a president, like Andrew Jackson did, or like Abraham Lincoln did may say, hey, the Supreme Court was wrong on that.

The Rule of Law

But this is not an issue of opinion on this, this is an issue of a written law. And unless you’re going to strike the law down and repeal it, I don’t see any way that you can just come in as a city and say, well, here’s what our policy is going to be and we’re going to ignore the Supreme Court and side with the governor. It doesn’t make any sense from a constitutional standpoint.


Well, and in the same way, it may require civil disobedience there in those local areas to say, the council or the county is not actually implementing a law here. They’re implementing an edict that is not following the rule of law as laid out by the legislature, they’re the ones that actually are elected to make law in that state, and as the Supreme Court has upheld there. So yeah, I mean, people locally may have to say no to those local entity and…


Yeah, that’s a great point. Because that may be what it takes to get it back in court, to get it back to the Supreme Court of Wisconsin, is you may need a citizen there saying, hey, I’m not going to do this. And then when they put a fine on him, or do something to him, then he’s got a cause of action and be able to take that and say, no, here’s what the court said. 

And I don’t see how any lower Judge cannot rule with the citizen on that based on what the Supreme Court has said. So unless there’s some buried obscure thing that gives cities more power and the legislature has what they can’t imagine, I don’t see any way that they can hold this thing up.


It’s going to take suit after suit after suit at the local level, state level. I mean, these people have had power for a year. And you talk about the rule of law, they haven’t been actually making law through legislators, they’ve been making edicts, they’ve been ruling as dictators, at the governor level, at the local district level. 

The Local Level

And so it’s going to take a while to pry that power out of their hands. We’re going to need more and more decisions like the Supreme Court decision in Wisconsin, and sometimes that’s going to have to be brought at the local level.

You’re going to have to deal with your school boards that are still implemented all kinds of crazy things with mask, with kids at school, and separating them whether they wear a mask or not. I mean, it’s just crazy the things that are going on. So pay close attention to it at the local level. It’s a great, great question. I’m so glad that Chris sent that in for us, great discussion today. 

We got to take a quick break, we got a lot more of your questions on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Stay with us, you’re listening to the WallBuilders.


Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today. And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil.

And everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out the statement, Black Lives Matter. But the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America not as the story of a perfect nation of a perfect people. But the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out, The American Story.


Abraham Lincoln said. “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

What Do We Do Now?


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Our second question of the day comes from Carrie and it’s about voting. She said, “I’m currently going through Constitution Alive! the DVD set and I’m really enjoying it here and learning a lot. 

I’m 56 and never really learned any of this in school. My question is this. You talk about how people can write the wrongs in government by voting because the power is in we the people. 

That all sounds great before the coming of corrupt voting machines and rigged elections. So now what? It seems we don’t have a way out of this with corrupt elections. Thank you for your time.”

Very good question, Carrie. We get this one quite a bit. You guys, we get it on the radio program. We all get it when we’re traveling across the country speaking. And the question is, okay, we talk a lot about we the people are in charge and voting is one of the ways that we let our will be known. But if we have questions on the election process itself, then what do we do?


I think one of the important things to remember is that we have to look at the local level first. Because as we talked about, maybe, the layers of voter fraud and certainly voter irregularities and the questions that there are surrounding some of the election, one of the things that is a really good example is Florida back in 2018 was a major, major problem train wreck when it came to elections.

When Governor DeSantis was elected, it took weeks and weeks before they knew he was elected because of the potential corruption that was going on, where they had counties, weeks after the election finding more ballots and I mean, kind of some of the things we saw in the presidential election, but it happened on the state level. 

And what happened in that scenario is when Governor DeSantis finally does win the election, he goes in and says we’re going to clean this up. We’re not going to let this happen again. Nobody should have to endure this kind of bad process and not knowing on election night who actually wins. And so they do.

Clean Up the States

They go through and they clean up the state. And as they clean up the state, when it comes to the 2020 election, which is the next major election in the state, President Trump knew very quickly the results of Florida. 

And where Florida was viewed as a toss-up state, it was not a toss-up state for President Trump: he won by a very large number of votes because they had cleaned up the voter rolls, they had to clean up process, they had gotten rid of people who weren’t doing a good job.

This is where when you start to take over on the local level, you are able to root out fraud and problems at a much higher ratio or level than you could maybe if you’re looking at a national issue. National issue, it’s so big, how can we stop that? If we stop this at the local level, it will solve the bigger problems. 

So we focus on the local elections and the state elections because the people that would argue that there’s fraud in all these elections, there’s not really that much fraud when it comes to a local election that there’s been any evidence or indication that there would be fraud.

So guys, it would seem the best solution of how we can make a difference is to start on the local level and get involved locally. And then when we clean things up locally, it can have a trickle effect and have a much bigger national impact.


And the thing I would add to that is in addition to local, that is where you’ve got to do it, is people say yeah, but the voting machines. Well, we’ve heard that and I’ll repeat what I’ve said again, is I think it’s very possible machines are corrupt, but we have to have evidence for that. And so at this point, there hasn’t been the evidence. 

But I’ll tell you, if it’s out there, it’s going to come in the next three months. What they’re doing in Arizona right now is a comprehensive audit of every vote in the state and of every machine in the state, including the software, the hardware, the connections externally. They’re doing everything we heard in the election right now Arizona is looking into.

Arizona’s Audit

And so whether it be the hardware, the software, the connections from internet to foreign nations, whether it was flying in ballots to the airport, whether it was running through ballots that weren’t mailed in, whatever it is, they’re looking at every one of them. And so if there’s going to be evidence to be found, we’re going to find it. And I talk to some of the legislators there, they think is a three month process to get through it. But they’re doing it right now.

So we will have a better understanding of where the machines are, and whether they’re corrupt or whether they’re open to corruption. I know there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence, we still have to have the hard evidence for that. 

And so we may find that and that may change all of this question, because then we may be assured that they’re either bad or good, or maybe you find they’re bad, and every one of those machines has to go out and we do something new. And so that would be good if that fixes the problem.

Or we may find that there’s absolutely no evidence of those machines are wrong that, you know, we were all surprised with the results, and it may just been a surprise. But whichever it is, we’re going to go for what truth is. And at this point, we’re waiting on the machines. 

But what we don’t have to wait on is local elections. That’s where you can get involved, you can make a difference, and that’s where you start getting the healthiest from the bottom up, not the top down.


Yeah, and just a recognition that when we see something broken in the system, or appears to be broken, not to give up and say I’m not going to participate at all, but say, hey, what do I need to do to go in there and fix that? 

Just like you would do if there were problems in your local school or your local church or your local sports program, or whatever it might be, we don’t want to just walk away from this system. We want to lean in, we want to dive in and look for the solutions and fight harder, get back to a place that we do trust those elections.


Quick break, guys, we’ve got a lot more questions to get to. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Have you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America? We’re looking around for leaders of principle to step up and too often, no one is there. God is raising up a generation of young leaders with a passion for impacting the world around them. They’re crying out for the mentorship and leadership training they need.

Patriot Academy was created to meet that need. Patriot Academy graduates now serve in state capitals around America in the halls of Congress, in business, in the film industry, in the pulpit and every area of the culture. They’re leading effectively and impacting the world around them. Patriot Academy is now expanding across the nation and now’s your chance to experience this life changing week that trains champions to change the world.

Visit for dates and locations. Our core program is still for young leaders 16 to 25 years old, but we also now have a citizen track for adults, so visit the website today to learn more. Help us fill the void of leadership in America join us in training champions to change the world at

Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution of most of our States and of the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty to be at all times armed, that they are entitled to freedom of person; freedom of religion; freedom of property and freedom of press.”


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Next question, and I hope I pronounced the name right, I think it’s Markita.

Markita, forgive me if I got it wrong, from Missouri. And the question is, “Please define a republican democracy and explain when it’s appropriate to use each term.” Thank you, God bless you and protect you.

Republic or Democracy?

Okay, great question, guys. A lot of people get really sticky about this. If somebody calls America democracy, they make sure and point out it’s a republic. We do that even in our Constitution classes. But the term, democracy, sometimes can be used generally, right? 

Just in terms of the type of system, but not necessarily the specific way that people are elected in that system. So how do we define these terms a little better?


Yeah, if you use in a broad term, you could say you have a democratic form of government, which means the people are represented and the people are in charge. A democracy itself is where you don’t have elected representatives. You simply have the people vote on every issue. And so you would have a referendum, every law going through the state legislature, every law going through Congress, all the people vote on it.

20 years back, it was a movement called the Third Wave. Topher was recommending that with internet, we allow everybody to vote on every bill on every issue, that’s pure democracies, where everybody votes on it. A republic is when you have elected representatives that represent the people. 

Now a republic doesn’t necessarily reflect what America is because we’re a constitutional republic. And a republic, your elected representatives can make a law and they can change it next week, and they can change it the week after that.

In America, we say no, we’ve got something higher than representatives and that’s the Constitution that we the people put in place. And that binds both the representatives, the elected people and the people itself. 

And so if the representatives come up with a law that violates the Constitution, then the representatives are wrong and the law is bad. So we have a constitutional republic, which is much higher level than a republic. But a Republic is a much better form of government than a democracy.

All I have to do is point north across the border, perhaps people have seen in Canada what’s happened in recent weeks with pastors, how they’ve been going after pastors because of not shutting down church and barricading churches they want to and if they think the pastor is not doing what he should, they can barricade that church, and they can’t do that, freedom of religion. Yeah, here’s the deal.


Canada does not have a written Constitution. They are that kind of democratic form of government. They have elected representatives in the parliament who represent them. They even have a bill of rights, but it’s not binding on the people or on the parliament. So you have there a Prime Minister kind of. 

And by the way, they still are directly associated with the government of Great Britain. So the Queen officially is the head of Canada.

Now, in Canada, you have the Prime Minister there who holds a position, then you have a senate and the Senate is elected for life. If you’re a senator in Canada, that’s a lifetime appointment. And then you have the parliament, which is elected by the people and they make the laws. So even though you have a Bill of Rights there, it does not apply to the government or to the people, it’s only guidelines, suggested guidelines.

And so there is nothing there in Canada, to really give you the kind of protection we have here for churches or other things, First Amendment, freedoms, whether it be speech or press a petition or whatever. So that’s the difference. In Canada, you have a democratic form of government. It is a representative form of government. It is a sort of republic. But it’s not a constitutional republic. So it’s always wrong to call America a democracy.

Now you can say America has a democratic form of government, which is generally right. And you can say America is a republic, which is also generally right. But we are also a constitutional republic more specifically. And that is the highest form of government that we know of in human forms, much better than what you have with republic in Canada, which is closer to a democracy but even there it’s not. So that’s probably the short answer to that question, Rick.


Alright, we’ve got time for one more question when we return. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. As the American war for independence began, the president of Yale was the Reverend Naftali Daggett. When New Haven, the home of Yale came under attack, about 100 citizens rushed out to meet the British, the Reverend Daggett gout by them on horseback, his clerical robes flowing behind him in the wind, and he took up a solitary position atop a hill.

The 2500 British soon put the townsfolk to flight. But the Reverend Daggett continued to stand alone, firing down on the advancing troops. A British officer confronted him, “What are you doing there, you old fool, if I let you go, will you ever fire again on the troops of His Majesty?” “Nothing more likely” was the preacher’s reply. America’s early pastors personally confronted danger and courageously led their communities.

For more information on Pastor Daggett and other colonial patriots, go to


President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realized that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

The 8th Amendment


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us last segment of Foundations of Freedom Thursday. And the last question is going to come from Rich Roth and the question is about the Eighth Amendment. He said “Recently, you featured a church in California that had a multi-million dollar fine due to being open for live services. 

Clearly, the state has overreached its authority under the First Amendment. As I was reading the Eighth Amendment and believe I have another constitutional defense for them, excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed. According to the pastor involved, none of the worshipers have been shown to have COVID and therefore no expense to the state has been incurred. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Rich from Stockton, California.”

So guys, really good point here. I thought about this: excessive fines imposed under the Eighth Amendment, does this apply to what they’ve been doing to these churches across the country?


It does apply. And by the way, kudos to Rich, for reading the Eighth Amendment. I don’t know the last time I’ve heard somebody say I read the Eighth Amendment. That’s great. And that clause on excessive fines is exactly right. In the 1990s, the US Supreme Court dealt with this in a case where that guy had committed a violation of $10,000, and the fine for that violation was $379,000. Well, come on, come on, be reasonable. The court said it has to be proportional to the offense.

And so there is no economic expense incurred to the city except for those people to show up every Sunday for five minutes and post a sign that says you’ve had three services, that’s a $15,000 fine. There’s no way that there’s $3 million in fines going to the city. 

So the attorneys we’ve talked with think that those fines are going to go away. That’s not guaranteed yet, because you still got the courts to go through, but they think that those are excessive fines definitely. And that’s what the Eighth Amendment does prohibit.

Mask Mandates, Election Fraud, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom

So it’s a great question and a very astute observation. And that church in California should be free from those fines, maybe small fine somewhere, but even at that what they’re doing is unconstitutional on the basis of the First Amendment, so there should be no fines at all.


Alright, guys, out of time for questions today, we’ll have more questions from the audience. Folks, you can send those into [email protected], and we’ll jump on some of those next Thursday for Foundations of Freedom Thursday. 

Be sure and visit that website today and consider making that one-time or monthly contribution. We appreciate you being a part of the program and coming alongside us and helping us to expand and reach more people across the country.

All of these questions really do point to the fact that we need more constitutional knowledge, we need more truth, we need to be able to address the issues that are happening from the election issues to what’s happening in your community, from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. And we should appreciate you being a part of that by listening today. Share the program with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.

Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”