Rights Of Christian Students In Public Schools:  Learning How to “€œReclaim Your School”€ with Brad Dacus, Moral Absolutes, And What Is the Truth About Columbus?  Rick, David, and Tim discuss the declining of Biblical values in today”€™s education; how it is replaced by the teaching of “€œrelative”€ truth. David also explains the actual relations which Columbus had among the Indian tribes in the New World. Later in the program, Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute gives his approach on how you can act out your religious freedom in the public schools. If our educational systems don”€™t return to Biblical moral values- our culture will continue declining into moral decay.

Air Date: 10/25/2017

Guests: Brad Dacus, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. All of it from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton. He”€™s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, he”€™s a national speaker and pastor; and the president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

You can learn more about us at WallBuildersLive.com.  You can also get some programs from the last few weeks right there at WallBuildersLive.com. Just click on the archives and then you can get some great articles and other information as well.

WallBuilders.com is our other website.  A lot of great resources for you there. Check that out today.

The Decline of Good Values in Schools

We’re here with David and Tim right now. Later in the program, Brad Dacus will join us from Pacific Justice Institute. We’re going to talk about what can be done in schools, and with regard to your faith, and both for students and people in the community.

So- David, Tim- let”€™s talk about that. Obviously, the education system is a huge part of that intersection of faith and the culture.  And it used to actually support faith and support what the culture.  You know, the good things in the culture.

Now we’ve separated that out, and have this education system void of values and that has repercussions all across the culture now.


Rick, how can you say it”€™s void of values? It”€™s got values! They”€™re just all the wrong values!


Well, yeah! maybe not good values.

Todd Starnes


Here’s a great example. This comes from an article written by Todd Starnes. And Todd,  if you don’t keep up with Todd Starnes, he”€™s a lot of fun. Because people go to him when something egregious has happened in schools on religion.  He just boldly writes about it for Fox.

But this comes out of Georgia. Now Georgia- hmm- that’s kind of a red state.


Just a little bit.


Like deep red.  And that’s kind of a Bible Belt state- like deep Bible Belt. That’s Southern Baptist territory- really deep. And so what do we got teaching in the schools of Georgia?

Well obviously, they’re teaching the Lord’s Prayer, and they’re teaching kids how to memorize the Bible at school, and- no, not quite.

Here’s a poem.  Actually, it’s a piece of literature that the teacher had the kids read. This literature is part of a Greek Mythology course at Cedartown Middle School. And so here’s what it says about God.

And this is what the kids are reading and studying.  “€œThe idea of God makes young children laugh and feel safe at night.”€

So far so good.

“€œBut when you grow older, and see the evil in the world, and the face of death like a shadow behind the eyes of every living thing; then where is God? Then God is revealed in all his foolishness, a naked like a childish dream, a mythical creature like the unicorn.”€

Really? OK- God’s okay for little-bitty children.  But once you grow up you learn that God is this? So Rick, how can you say that public schools have no values?

Nothing in Education is Neutral


Yeah. So how do we describe those values? I mean- is that going to help create a good culture and raise a generation that is stable and free and prosperous?


And you know that is the thing that parents need to come to grips with is there is nothing in education that is neutral. It will teach a value one way or the other. And even if it teaches there is no value- that is a value. Because from a Biblical standpoint- we believe there’s value to all sorts of things. And you can learn from the good, the bad, the ugly.

But in the progressive viewpoint, in the secularist viewpoint, there is no value unless you add value to it. You define truth for yourself.  There are no absolutes. And this is not just hyperbole.  Polling shows two out of three Christians now think that there is no absolute moral truth in America.

Now, where did they get that? Where did Christians get that? They didn”€™t get that out of the Bible.  They get it out of their education.

All these guys on the sidelines of football games, that are taking– where”€™d they get that?

Everybody Believes in Moral Absolutes


Well, let me let me back up. Even this idea that- two to three Americans don’t believe in absolute moral truth. They answer that question the way they do because they’ve been trained to say that about it.


That’s right.


But everybody believes in absolute morals. If we said, “€œHey, what this shooter did- out on Las Vegas- was that wrong?”€

“€œOh absolutely!”€

Everybody would agree that was absolutely wrong! That is a moral position you are taking, and that’s an absolute position.

Everybody agrees there are moral absolutes. We’ve just been trained that there are no moral absolutes, and therefore, it is subjective and it’s up to the individual. But this just never works in reality. And so when we see it in reality, we can go, “€œOh no, that’s not right. No, we would never agree with that.”€


Tim, I’ve watched you when you have a group of college kids in front of you, and you ask them about truth- “€œand yeah there’s truth. Absolute moral truth? Well, maybe not.”€

And you always say, “€œOK.  So it’s okay if I punch you in the face and take your smart device, right?”€

“€œWell, no.”€

What Are Moral Absolutes?


Right! Yeah.

“€œWell, OK.  Can I just can I kick you in the face? Can I break your teeth and then take your iPhone from you?”€

“€œOh, uh..”€

“€œWell, wait a second.  If it’s up to me, you can’t tell me what I do is wrong.”€

“€œBut, but.”€

“€œOh, so you do think it’s wrong?”€

Well, and you know somebody will play along: “€œYou can do that to me- break my teeth and take my phone.”€

They have Been Taught To Say There”€™s No Moral Absolutes

Well no, that”€™d be miserable.  Nobody would enjoy that. That would be awful. But the reality is- when you’ve been taught something in a classroom, and then it encounters the actual reality you realize, “€œOh. So this whole subjective notion of life- that I can do whatever I want; you do whatever you want. It doesn’t matter.”€ As soon as that meets reality we discover that idea doesn’t work anymore.

So even saying that you know two out of three- or I guess, 80 percent of millennials don’t believe in absolute moral truth. Well, that’s what they’ve been taught to say. But the reality is they do.  They just don’t want to admit it because that goes against what they’ve been taught.

Subjective Truth Meets Reality


Yeah. And this whole idea of it being “€œrelative”€ truth. I can remember one of my mentors, Zig Ziglar, would always say, “€œYou know, if that were true then when I come home from my trips traveling out speaking, my wife would say, “€˜Have you been relatively faithful to me?”€™”€

Nobody wants relative truth.  They want truth. There’s got to be absolute truth- or the whole thing falls apart.

Got to take a quick break! When we come back- actually, later in the program, we”€™re going to have Brad Dacus with us from Pacific Justice Institute talking about this whole situation and what we can do in schools to get back to this idea of moral absolutes- to actual truth.

Stay with us! You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton with another moment from American History. The year after the American War for Independence ended we begin addressing the issue of Muslim terrorists in North Africa, who were attacking American ships, killing, and enslaving American seamen.

Congress dispatched John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to negotiate peace. When they asked the Muslim ambassador the reason for the unprovoked attacks he told them that it was written in their Qur’an, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them whenever they could be found.

Sixteen years of negotiations failed and in 1801 America sent its military to crush the terrorists. When that war ended in 1805 the first American edition of the Qur’an was published, urging Americans to read the Qur’an to see for themselves that it”€™s teachings were incompatible with the safety and peace of non-Muslims. To see the first American Qur’an and to get more information about America’s first war on Islamic terror, go to WallBuilders.com.

NFL Players Have All Just Come Out of America”€™s Universities


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live! Thanks for staying with us today. Brad Dacus with us later in the program.

David, Tim-  you were talking about this idea of actual truth- moral truth- and teaching actual values, not just theory. And you know, Tim, of course, making it actually meet reality and how people actually live.


Well, Rick, let me go back for a little bit. Because before the break, I started to mention about the NFL guys. And there are so many of them taking a knee, disrespecting the flag, what it stands for, etc. What do every one of those guys have in common? I don’t care what team they’re from.


They”€™re millionaires.


That’s right! Yeah, good point. Every one of them are millionaires. What else do they have in common?


They were educated in this very mess we’re talking about.


Well, they are all recently from America’s colleges and universities.


So, we shouldn’t be surprised.  This is what they’ve been taught.


This is what they’ve been taught.

For 470 Years Columbus Was a Hero.  And Now He”€™s a Jerk?

And you know how “€œterrible”€ America is.  It’s not that long since we had Columbus Day. I did several TV programs on Columbus Day- multiple TV programs- and it was really interesting because, on the programs, they were starting out with men on street interviews.  “€œWhat do you think about Columbus?”€

“€œOh, he’s worse than Hitler.”€

Those are literal responses: “€œOh, a huge genocide.”€

“€œWhat one word do you associate with Columbus?”€


It just went on and on.

OK, fine. “€œWe’ve been taught that at school.”€ Now, how come for 470 years Columbus was a hero, and in the last 30 years, he is now a jerk?  And we”€™ve still got the same historical data we had on him?? What’s changed in that period?  Could be the opinions of the professors.

Columbus Encountered Three Types of Indians

And here’s what I saw happen on both TV programs. I just took and actually read from those who are on the voyage with Columbus. Let”€™s just be real clear up upfront.  Columbus encountered three different types of Indians when he landed where he did.

The first group he loved. He wrote Queen Isabella and said, “€œThese are the gentlest, kindest people.”€ He”€™d just talk about how precious they were, and how they needed to be Spaniard and have equal rights with every Spaniard, had they wanted to be Christians.

The Carib Indians were Cannibals

The second group that he met were called the Caribs.  And that’s where we get Caribbean.  So the Carib Indians–  the Carib Indians were just a little bit different.  They were cannibals. And he talks about when they went to the village.  They had all these human bones hanging around and how they talked about there’s nothing more tasty than human flesh.

And some of the huts- they had pots with human neck bones in there broiling, just like we would broil a roast. They”€™re picking every bit of meat off it.

3rd Group of Indians

And then the third group of Indians encountered were the Indians that had been captured by the Carib Indians.  The Caribs would go raiding on other islands, and they would do several things when they got there. They would kill men on the island- and then eat them right there. Or they would capture men on the other islands and bring them back to the Carib Islands and then have a feast on them.  Kill them and have a feast on them- like you would, I don’t know, a cow- or whatever you eat- a goat.

The Caribs Would Eat the Babies

Then they would take the women of those other islands and bring them back. And just like a bunch of broodmares, that we have on a ranch, you breed them and you have colts.  They would breed these women.  All the children born to these other tribes- they would eat the children. They used the women just to have babies that they could eat the children.

And what they did was- the Carib women, if they had sex with them and they had children, they kept those kids because that’s keeping the tribe alive. But all these other tribes–

And so Columbus’ guys talked about on one island they went to- there were 50 huts filled with women and no men. And those were the “€œproduction huts”€ where they have babies all the time so the tribe would have something to eat. They are turning out babies, and they’re eating the babies.

And then, if they found young boys on the other island- very graphic.  They described how they simply cut their genitals off at the belly.  Which, on the ranch, you take a bull- turn him into a steer- and then they grow faster, bigger, more meat. And that’s what they did. They cut the genitals off at the belly, took these boys back to the Carib tribe, they raised them till they grew big and strong.  Then they would kill them and have a feast.

The Genocide was the Indians Killing Other Indians

So where”€™s this genocide? Oh, wait a minute, that genocide was the Indians! It wasn’t Columbus doing it. It was the Indians doing it to the other tribes.

And then when those Indian tribes went after Columbus’ guys- and on one account, he came back and found his guys dead and their eyeballs had been scooped out.  They found out that the Caribs really liked the eyeballs better than anything else.

Columbus kind of lost his temper a little bit and decided, “€œUh-uh, we ain’t putting up with this.”€ And so, yes, he did decimate some of the Indian tribes.  But not the kind ones, not the nice ones, and not the ones who were the victims. It was the warlike guys that he went after.

Columbus Didn”€™t Do Much of What He is Blamed For


And most of what Columbus is blamed for things that happened by other individuals- that were not Columbus.


Yeah, that’s right.


And so you know, like there’s the one story you’re mentioning. No, I mean Columbus was a part of some things, absolutely, and he wasn’t perfect.  He’s a human just like every other human is not perfect. He was not perfect. But the majority of what everybody tries to blame Columbus for- he was not a part of, did not endorse, did not encourage, and frankly just didn’t do.

What is Being Given as Truth Is not Factual

But people have no idea what this history is. So they buy on and start believing this nonsense. Which even- back to this article that you first read by Todd Starnes- kids are being taught just such nonsense now, that we don’t know truth from error. Because what is being given to us as truth- is not factual.  But we’re not taught how to decipher, and look for, and pursue truth.



Attack On Christianity


And so we get all this nonsense, and it doesn’t make any sense at all. But you also see this as an attack on blatant Christianity and religion saying, “€œHey, this whole God/ mythical-thing it is made up, and it’s dumb.”€

And this is the challenge in the battle we see with education now is- education has become very anti-Christian, and certainly is not promoting truth- or even teaching kids how to pursue truth.


And Brad Dacus is in a state where they have to deal with this on a very regular basis. He’s out in California, the Pacific Justice Institute.  They handle law cases on this all up and down the far left coast.  That’s where it can really get goofy out there.

Yet, even out there, Brad has been able to find really good ways to keep positive views of religion in school and with kids.  And good things for kids to be able to do in school, that are legal to do, that can push back on this kind of stuff- like was in this Todd Starnes article. So Brad is a great guy, great attorney, great warrior out for the right values out on the West Coast.


Brad Dacus is our guest today.  Stay with us! You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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People Realize that They Can Be a Positive Influence with the Good News of Christ


Welcome back! Thanks for staying with us today on WallBuilders Live. Our good friend Brad Dacus with us from the Pacific Justice Institute.  Always doing great work defending our liberties. Brad, good to have you.

Brad Dacus:

Thank you, Rick! Always a pleasure.


Hey, so it looks like there was a school that Todd Starnes talked about.  Actually was teaching some Greek mythology, and talking about God being a mythical creature like a unicorn. And you’re saying, “€œHey, this is two things.  One- they shouldn’t be doing it. Two- what an opportunity for parents to go in and say we need some Bible clubs?”€

Brad Dacus:

Oh, absolutely. It’s hopefully a wakeup call when we see the negative things coming into our public schools. For parents, and youth ministers, and students to realize, “€œHey, I can be a positive influence.”€ And there are so many things that they can do to respond in a very positive, proactive way with the Good News of Christ.

How Can People Bring Faith-Type Influence into a Public School? It”€™s Easy!


Now Brad, when you say that, you know a lot of people would immediately react with, “€œWell, but I thought we couldn’t bring anything like that into the school. So how could we have a Bible club? How could parents bring any kind of faith-type influence into a public school?”€

Brad Dacus:

It’s actually very easy. In fact, it’s so easy that my wife and I wrote a book called “€œReclaim Your School.”€



Brad Dacus:

Yeah. And in fact that we’ve had a number of printings, and we now make it available for free download- straight from our website.  Which is PacificJustice.org. So we’ll get that in there.


Yeah definitely.

Brad”€™s Book Makes it Easy for People to Realize What They Can Do

Brad Dacus:

And it makes it so easy for people to realize- students realize- what they can do. First off, they have First Amendment rights.  So long as it’s not disruptive. They have the ability to express themselves. They can do a book report on the book of John, for example, if it fits in the subject category.


So as a student, their free speech is just as they had the same free speech rights as any other student.  Why should they be limited on what they can write about or talk about to their fellow students?

Brad Dacus:

Right. Exactly- like we defended, up in Seattle area, a gentleman who was in high school. He was giving gospel tracks to other kids. He was suspended once, twice, three times- pending permanent expulsion. We went into federal court. We got an injunction, and make it very clear that school districts can’t censor students just because of their religious message.

Case Law Defending the Rights of Students

There’s so much wonderful case law defending the rights of individuals students. Another child wanted to play a religious song for a talent show. He’s in kindergarten actually, and it wasn”€™t allowed. He was in San Diego, we defended him successfully.

There are so many examples.  But what’s really exciting is what students can do when they form a Christian club. There they have federal law equal access act which gives an incredible protection, Rick, with regards to taking it to a much higher level.


And the website again, I want to give out again- that you mentioned earlier; PacificJustice.org. And the guide, or this book that would help people to know these different things that they could do. Tell me the title on that one more time?

Brad”€™s Book: “€œReclaim Your School”€ at PacificJustice.org

Brad Dacus:

Sure. It’s Reclaim Your School.  And it’s a book and it’s a free download. It’s really easy to do, and we make that available. We’ve had several printings and large distributions- that we’ve decided just to make it a technology.  Just available as a free download- to really get that out there; so people can take advantage of it.

We”€™ve Seen So Much Positive Fruit

But we’ve seen so much positive fruit come from people getting that book- young people reading it, and taking it, and using it to– well, like you mentioned, forming a Bible club. Through Bible clubs students can have a full blown revival rally on their high school campus- or even their middle school campus- during lunchtime or right after school with an outside speaker or a Christian band.

We’ve seen as a result of this information going out- one ministry alone, the National School Project, has seen over 16 hundred revival rallies right there on public school campuses.


Wow. And then that’s been challenged, and- always- they lose on that. Every kid absolutely has the right to start a Bible club on their campus- just like you would any other any other club.

If There”€™s Any Pushback Pacific Justice Goes to Bat for Them

Brad Dacus:

Right, and if there’s any pushback, then we have Pacific Justice step in and- as gently and nice as possible.  We go to bat for them. And the school districts will always eventually back down, or that one case we had to go to court, but there’s so much protection.

You know there’s a lot.  We can’t cover this over this- the nice and all; because the reality is- public schools there’s so much garbage, so much indoctrination, so much bad stuff. But we cannot forget that we still have our freedom to do so much good that will- that can greatly overwhelm the bad that our kids are exposed to in public schools.


Yeah, no doubt about it. I’m glad you mentioned the book too.  It”€™s Reclaim Your School, folks. I just pulled it up on it on the website.  You can go there right now PacificJustice.orgReclaim Your School: 10 strategies to practically and legally evangelize your school.

Even if You Don”€™t Have Kids in school, Your Voice Can Still Be Heard

Brad, if we’re silent- if we don’t do anything, and I would say even if your kids don’t go, don’t have kids in school anymore- there are still ways for your voice to be heard. You should still show up at school board meetings.  And you still have an influence on what’s happening whether you homeschool, private school, whatever. Most kids are still going to those public schools.  So having these good things on those campuses are so important.

Brad Dacus:

Yeah, and in fact, the book not only talks about what students can do- it talks about what teachers can do legally, and how they’re protected. It also talks about what parents can do and youth ministers. It also talks about model policies for school boards.

There are 21 model policies we list in that book that people could take, one by one, to their school board- to really change their community. If everything is carried out in this book- I tell you that the teacher”€™s unions out there will be screaming and yelling for vouchers to protect their kids from public school.


So they’ll actually support choice all of a sudden.

Brad Dacus:

Yes, they will, once they realize that their agenda no longer dominates the day.

It”€™s Right Here, Right Now

Yeah, and so and it’s right there. It’s not hypothetical. It’s not in the distance- it’s right here, right now.

And we have Pacific Justice.  We”€™d love to work with them or any ministries out there that are trying to take advantage of these wonderful opportunities to be a positive influence in the view of so much of the outrageously negative stuff that we, at Pacific Justice Institute, have to fight in court all the time.

Take Back Our Schools, There Are Moral Absolutes


Well, thank you guys for what you do. I also want to tell our audience- not only go get the book, read it, get it, get equipped.  But sometimes you might say, “€œWhat can I do about it?”€

Well, listen, you can go to PacificJustice.org. You can support Brad and their work. They’ve got cases all over the country, and all over California, and all over the northwest. Help them do what they’re doing. He’s going out there on the ground- the boots on the ground in the trenches. The least we can do is financially support him, pray for him. Stay up to date on what they’re doing.

Brad, God bless you and keep up the great work. And I look forward to having you back again soon.

Brad Dacus:

Always a pleasure, Rick. You too, God bless.


Stay with us folks! We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.