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Foundations Of Freedom Thursday! What Is Law? Discussing Four Types of Law: Ceremonial Law, Moral Law, Judicial Law, and Social Compact Law Part 1: It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering your questions from constitutional principles! Joining us today is Michele Bachmann as she discusses the Law and how it comes from God. Tune in today as we answer your questions such as, “€œHas the government always been so regulating?”€

Air Date: 10/26/2017


Guests: Michele Bachmann, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Foundations of Freedom Thursday

David:

Welcome to Foundations of Freedom where we look at important aspects of our common heritage about which most Americans today have been told absolutely nothing.  Joining me today is Congresswoman Michele Bachmann.

Michele is a federal tax attorney. She is a successful businesswoman. She’s a very successful mom- having raised five of her own kids, and 23 foster kids.

She’s also a member of Congress. And in Congress, she serves on some of the most important committees- such as the House Intelligence Committee which is in charge of our national secrets.

Michele, great to have you with us. Thanks for being here.

Michele Bachmann:

Great to be here today and I’m looking forward to unlocking some secrets here as well- that lot of Americans aren’t familiar with. This is so interesting because it’s an area that every American is impacted by today. Really people around the world are impacted by this.

David:

It’s real practical.

Law Was Created in the Mind of an Almighty God

Michele Bachmann:

It’s very practical because a law isn’t just some dry subject. This is a topic that was created in the mind of an Almighty God. And it isn’t just one area.  It’s multiple areas we see in the Bible that ceremonial laws; but then it’s also the moral law- and all of us know a little bit about that.  And it’s judicial law which I have to deal with as a lawyer.

But also as a legislator, a member of Congress, we also deal with the social compact.  And those are the laws between people horizontally to help our society work. So this is going to be great. I think people are going to learn a lot.  I’m going to learn a lot. I’m really excited to hear what you have to say today.

David:

Great. We’ll let”€™s see what some questions are that we’ve got from the audience.

Michele Bachmann:

Very good.

Has Government Always Been So Regulating? Easy Answer: No.

Audience Question:

It seems like we have laws regulating everything these days- how businesses are run, who they can hire, how clothes are made, what food we can buy, even what happens in churches. Is this the way government has always been?

David:

Easy answer to that. No. That’s the way secular government has always been.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s true.

David:

When you get to a God-conscious government and look at a God-conscious government, we have great guidance on this in the Scriptures.

Michele Bachmann:

But don’t we have a secular government? That’s what we”€™re told.

David:

That’s what we hear.

Michele Bachmann:

Talk about that.

We Never Separate God Out of Anything

David:

Well, we really don’t have a secular government. And the reason we don’t have a secular government is because God so ordained it. Now we do have a separation between the institutions of church and state- but we never separate God out of anything.

And so the notion that God has to be separate from government.  He doesn’t buy that because He’s the one who ordained government.

Genesis 9 is the first government in the history of the world. It came from God of his ordination. The Noahide Laws- seven categories of civil laws- God is in the civil laws. The Bible has 613 civil laws in it. God’s really good on everything from immigration, to taxation, to military, to family, the business.  You name it. He’s got it all.

Michele Bachmann:

So here you have God, and God’s laws.  And here you have a civil government that you just talked about. How do you have a civil government and yet God’s a little bit a part of it, a lot a part of it, no part of it?

Because God Ordained Government He Knows How to Run It

David:

Well, because God ordained it, He knows best how to run it. A great passage is in 1 Timothy 1:8-10.  And this is where the Bible tells us the purpose of law.

Michele Bachmann:

Let’s look at that.

David:

It says, “€œWe know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous, but for lawbreakers and rebels.”€ And that’s the second thing government is not supposed to pass laws to regulate the good guys.  It”€™s supposed to pass laws to regulate the bad guys.

Michele Bachmann:

But that’s all we do is law, law- pass laws, pass laws.

David:

And that regulates the good guys.

Michele Bachmann:

I remember in Congress, there”€™s one day when we voted 53 times.

David:

Wow.

Michele Bachmann:

I think people would be shocked to hear that- how often this plethora of laws- we stack laws upon laws.

The Law Is Made for Lawbreakers and Rebels, Not the Righteous

But that’s interesting when you say that the Scripture says that the law is not made for the righteous, but for lawbreakers and rebels.

David:

And look at the lawbreakers.  It’s made for, as it says, lawbreakers and rebels; the ungodly and sinful; the unholy and irreligious.  For those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.

Now those are the bad guys. Those are the ones you are supposed to be regulating. The problem we have today is that- as you just mentioned the 53 votes in one day.  In any given session of Congress, you guys have between 10 and 13,000 bills introduced every session. And by the way, just as with the health care bill, you have 2,500 pages in the bill- but then you have 50,000 pages of regulations.

Michele Bachmann:

The regulations and it’s a law that will never finish being written.

David;

That’s right. Because regulations- that”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

It goes on, and on, and on.

David:

That”€™s right.

When Law Can Mean Different Things- It Becomes A Thing Of Wax

Michele Bachmann:

That’s one of the beauties of law- is certainty.  People need to know.  “€œWhat’s the behavior expected of me? What do I need to do in response to my government?”€

And so when law is malleable- when it can mean different things- then there”€™s no certainty for people. People don’t know what to do.  So you”€™re right there’s no end.

David:

And there”€™s no way to government control at that point– because they can reshape it in anything.  As Thomas Jefferson said, it becomes a thing of wax. Which they can make anything they want. And it gives more and more control.

Ignorance of the Law Is No Excuse

Now let me kind of back up here to say- we all know that ignorance of the law is no excuse. You’re from Minnesota. I’m from Texas. So I go to Minnesota.  I rent a car at the airport. I start driving north, and I’m going 85 miles an hour.  And I get pulled over by highway patrol in Minnesota. He says, “€œYou can’t do that.”€

And I say, “€œWait a minute, 85 is our speed limit in Texas.”€

“€œWell, it”€™s not in Minnesota.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Not in Minnesota. That”€™s right.

David:

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s Right.

Every Single Person in America Needs to Know Federal Law

David:

So that tells me, I should know the law. Which every single person in America needs to know federal law because you can get arrested for breaking federal law. It doesn’t matter what you know or don”€™t.

Michele Bachmann:

Well, that”€™s an impossibility because we’re all trying to lead our lives. And I can tell you for a fact, I’ve been in the law libraries, where it’s the federal law.  And it is stack after stack- the shelf, after shelf- page after page. No one could read the letters. It’s impossible!

David:

Well, here”€™s the perspective on it.  If you made a commitment- talk about that library, all those books of federal law; and all the federal regulations that come from it–

Michele Bachmann:

Oh yeah, that doesn’t include the regulations. Congress will pass a law.   And then we”€™ll tell the federal agencies, “€œWell, now you need to implement that law. So you write all the additional requirements.”€

Well, that’s usually where the mess is in all of the regulations. And that’s considered law- just as much as law is.

Ten Laws That Will Keep You Out of Jail- The Ten Commandments

David:

And you know I’ve got a friend.  She was a 95-year-old lady. Her name was Esther Armstrong, and she loved prison ministry. She was everybody’s favorite grandma. She was small.  She’s diminutive, she had bent over white hair. Ms. Armstrong would go into the county prison, she would go into the state prisons, in federal prisons and she would mentor these guys- and just talk blunt to them.

And she was in one of these prisons one day– and what we call a “€œjailhouse attorney.”€ Somebody that has got such a long sentence, they got their law degree while they’re in jail-

Michele Bachmann:

Oh, I’ve met them.

David:

You”€™ve met them. One of these “€œjailhouse attorneys”€ came up to her, and he put his arm around her and said, “€œMomma Esther, did you know there are a hundred thousand laws that”€™d put you in jail?”€ And she looked at him said, “€œDo you know there are 10 laws that keep you out of jail?”€

Michele Bachmann:

Yeah, baby! We know which one that is.  

David:

The 10 Commandments. That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right. The moral law- God’s moral law.

Limited Government Only Comes with a God-Conscious Government

David:

And that’s why it’s so simple in the Bible. You don’t have all these regulated behaviors- because if you deal with the inside, the outside is under control.

But when you have a secular government, they think that they’re God. And at that point, they want to control every aspect of your life. Only when you have a God-conscious government, you have limited government.  Because you deal with the inside- not just the outside.

All of Law Can be Reduced to the Ten Commandments

Michele Bachmann:

I had two great, Godly law professors when I went to law school. And they had pointed us to Blackstone. Blackstone was the great English jurist. And Blackstone had written that all of common law is based upon the Ten Commandments of the Bible- God’s moral law. I know that different commentators have said that all of law can be reduced to the Ten Commandments and how important that is.

And so often years ago, in our churches or in synagogues, children learned the Ten Commandments. They learned it. They understood it and memorized it. And all throughout their life, God would give further illumination to them of what those laws meant.

Could you talk a little bit more about the importance and the primacy of moral law here in the United States- all over the world- but what it means here?

David:

You know it’s an interesting thing because when you look in the Bible there are four types of law. There’s a ceremonial law–

Michele Bachmann:

And explain that- ceremony. Is that like my wedding? Is that my baptism?  What is that?

David:

That would be like the Temple sacrifices, and what happened there.

Michele Bachmann:

So, Old Testament?

David:

That”€™s Old Testament.

Michele Bachmann:

Old Testament.

Ceremonial, Old Testament Law has been Replaced by the Sacrifice of Christ

David:

And it’s not necessarily a problem that it”€™s Old Testament, but it’s been replaced by the sacrifice of Christ. The way we become righteous now is not by the sacrifices in the temple- it”€™s by what Christ did.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s an important point. Because under ceremonial law in the Old Testament, people would try to keep the ceremonial law because they saw that that would give them personal righteousness. Right?

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

And that would be their future salvation- if they followed the law. What a radical difference between the Old and New Testament. And it didn’t work because we”€™re sinful.

David:

And it didn”€™t work in the Old and that”€™s why we have the New. That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

And so now you have a perfect Savior- a perfect sacrifice- who completely fulfills the ceremonial law of the Old Testament. So that’s kind of wrapped up with a bow now. Right?

David:

That’s right. The next law is the moral law.

Michele Bachmann:

Which we just talked about.

In Moral Law God Tells Us What is Right and Wrong

David:

This is where God tells us what’s right and what’s wrong. This is an important thing because I had a call recently from a state senator, and the state senator said, “€œYou’ve got to help me.”€ He said, “€œI’ve got a friend here that is a Christian guy, and he keeps talking about how can you be pro-life and pro-death penalty? How can you do that? Because the Bible says don’t kill.”€

And I said, “€œWell, he’s into the New Testament misunderstanding that he has. The Bible actually says “€˜don’t murder.”€™  It doesn”€™t say “€˜don’t kill.”€™ You don”€™t shed innocent blood. You can shed blood.  God ordained civil government to shed blood if it”€™s guilty blood. –Romans 13.”€

Michele Bachmann:

You just got into a great point. Because it’s who is allowed to shed the blood.

David:

That”€™s Right.

Michele Bachmann:

There’s only one entity that God has created- and that’s the civil government- that is allowed to wield the sword. So if I do something terrible- if I murder someone else in a fit of rage- I murder someone. That’s not up to my brother to bring justice, or someone else.  That there’s an entity very specific that God ordained- the civil government. They”€™re the only one–

David:

–that can do that.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

Civil Justice Belongs to Civil Government

David:

Civil justice belongs to civil government. There is a sort of self-defense we can wield. I can shed someone”€™s blood defending myself–

Michele Bachmann:

Sure, if I”€™m in my house- if someone breaks in, I”€™ve got that right.

David:

My house, my family, my possessions. I”€™ve got that.

Michele Bachmann:

And our law tells us we can do that to- that they protect us.

David:

That”€™s right. And Blackstone, as you mentioned, that’s called the Castle Doctrine.   Your house is your castle, all your possessions, all those who live there- you’ve got the right to defend your castle.

Once God Says it”€™s Wrong It Stays Wrong

So that’s moral law. And I asked the senator, “€œDo you believe that arson is a sin?”€

“€œOh yeah.”€

“€œDo you believe that infanticide- killing an unborn child is a sin?”€

“€œOh yeah.”€

“€œDo you believe that bestiality- sex with animals, is a sin?”€

“€œYeah”€

“€œShow me anywhere in the New Testament it”€™s a sin. You can’t even show in the New Testament where that abortion”€™s a sin. That”€™s a sin in the Old Testament.”€

Michele Bachmann:

They just don’t talk about it. It’s just not brought up.

David:

And see- it doesn’t need to be.  Because once God”€™s says it”€™s wrong, it stays wrong.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s settled, it”€™s settled. That’s right. So that’s that’s a very important part of the law- settled doctrine.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

And it’s done.  Because the Ten Commandments are the Ten Commandments, are the Ten Commandments.

David:

In the Old Testament and the New Testament- it”€™s God’s moral law.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right. And not just for the Hebrews.

The Law is for All People for All Time

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

And not just for Gentiles.

David:

It”€™s behavior.

Michele Bachmann:

For all people for all time.  In fact, the New Testament talks about how God put the Ten Commandments in our heart.  He put them within. So that’s why we have a conscience.

David:

Yeah.  That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

So we wonder why we feel guilty about a little child, when they do something wrong? They know.

David:

They broke the moral law.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s all over our faces.  It”€™s because He puts it in our heart.

David:

Yeah, that’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Unless our conscience is seared.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Unless us we continually turn away from what our conscience tells us is wrong. But you’ve got the Ten Commandments.

David:

Well, see these are the Ten Commandments.  You don’t murder, you don’t commit adultery, you don’t steal, you don’t purger yourself. But there are no penalties attached to this. That”€™s left to the third law. This is what”€™s right and what”€™s wrong.

Judicial Law Tells Us the Penalties of Breaking the Law

Michele Bachmann:

That’s telling us what to do, and what not to do. But it doesn’t say what’s the penalty.

David:

The penalty.

Michele Bachmann:

If you violate it.

David:

That’s right. And that’s the third type of law- which is judicial law.

Michele Bachmann:

Judicial law.

David:

And judicial law that comes that–

Michele Bachmann:

So ceremonial law, moral law, judicial law. Moral law tells us what’s right and wrong.

David:

Tight and wrong.

Michele Bachmann:

Judicial law tells us–

David:

The penalties.

Michele Bachmann:

If you murder someone.  Maybe it’s 40 years, maybe it’s life in prison, maybe it’s the electric chair.

David:

And then you said “€œmaybe.”€  And that’s a key point. Because Jewish law changes over time. Moral law never changes. Back in the beginning, with the adultery, you got killed in the Hebrew tradition. Jesus comes along- who says that’s a sin and don’t do it anymore. But he didn’t stone the lady.

Today it’s just disapprobation- but it’s still a moral wrong. You know here we are Texas.  And in Texas, we used to hang horse thieves. We don’t anymore.  It’s still a crime to steal a horse. But you don’t get hung for it.

Judicial Law Can Change, But Moral Law Cannot

So judicial law can change over time but the rights and wrongs–

Michele Bachmann:

Moral law doesn”€™t.

David:

Moral law does not change. That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Moral law never changes- never, ever, ever. Judicial law does change because it may be different in England, may be different in Australia, may be different the US, may be different Ukraine. That changes.

David:

But it”€™s still got a right and wrong attached to it.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

We Live in a Culture That is Trying to Redefine What is Right and Wrong

David:

And you”€™ll never get away from right and wrong. And those are what the Declaration of Independence called “€œThe Laws of Nature and Nature’s God.”€  The rights and wrongs that became part of the Seventh Amendment of the Constitution.  The common law- that establishes what’s right and wrong.

We’re living in a culture now where we’re trying to redefine what we think is right and wrong.  And we’re redefining the moral law on a regular basis. You can’t do that.

Michele Bachmann:

In other words, we’re turning it upside down.

David:

Turning it upside down.

Michele Bachmann:

And that’s when you’ve got trouble.

David:

Instead of God telling you what’s right and wrong.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

Today Instead of the Government Going After the Lawbreakers, We”€™re Going After the Good Guys

David:

We”€™re now having the government– And that’s a problem we get into- instead of government being limited and going after lawbreakers like the Bible–

Michele Bachmann:

Preach it! Preach it.

David:

We’re going after the good guys.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

And that’s the problem.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s the beauty of our government- was the limited.

David:

It was limited.

Michele Bachmann:

Jurisdiction- we need to talk about that a little bit. But I know that there’s another, fourth area of law, that we really should touch on; and that’s social compact.

Social Compact Laws Are the Things that Fall Under the Moral Law

David:

Social compact.

Michele Bachmann:

We need to talk about that.

David:

Social compact law are all the things that fall under the moral law. And social compact law is where the will of the majority wins.

Michele Bachmann:

These are the biggies.

David:

These are the biggies.

Michele Bachmann:

These are the biggies that are immutable- that you cannot disagree- you shouldn’t be murdering people.

David:

And there’s more in the Bible. We talked about bestiality and arson. Rape is a crime in the Bible.  It”€™s not in the Ten Commandments.  It”€™s a moral crime. God lays all that- the laws of consanguinity: who you can marry, who you can’t marry. You can’t marry first cousins, and you can”€™t marry a sister. So all of that is part of the moral law.  And that’s all laid out.

But then you get into things that say do we want the sidewalks to be four feet wide, five feet wide, or six feet wide?

Michele Bachmann:

Oh, yeah- speed limits.

David:

Speed limits.

Michele Bachmann:

What are the load limits on turnip trucks?

David:

That’s right. All those regulations.

Social Compact Law Encourages an Orderly Society

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right. And it really has to do with the whole idea of: we can kind of do whatever we want- other than I can’t take my fist–

David:

And plant it on my nose.

Michele Bachmann:

And plant it on your nose. So anything short of that, you should be able to have freedom. In other words, when my behavior hurts you, then that’s when you have to have a social compact law. You have to do something, because-

David:

That”€™s right. It”€™s to give you an orderly society;

Michele Bachmann:

Orderly society.

David: It”€™s to give you an orderly society.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “€œAs incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”€

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you”€™ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

You Cannot Vote on Moral Law

David:

You can have social compact laws if you’re not voting on the moral law.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

You don’t get to vote on whether murder is a crime or not.

Michele Bachmann:

No, because it’s done.

David:

It’s done. God”€™s already said it.

Michele Bachmann:

There are some things that- because there can never be a dispensation to do what’s wrong.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s why, I think, we continue to see in the United States today.  The ongoing debate about the issue over abortion.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

Because we’re talking about something that is fundamental. We’re talking about the intentional taking of a human life. And you can’t put into law something that God has already called a moral evil.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because moral law is immutable.

Only One Out of Three Christians Believe There is Absolute Moral Truth

David:

See, here’s the difficulty we have as people of faith.  As we know right now in polling, only one out of three Christians believe there’s absolute moral truth. And that’s a problem.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s a problem.

David:

That’s a problem; because the Bible is full of absolute truth. And I guarantee when you stand before God- He has absolute moral truth.

Michele Bachmann:

That tells you what believers think about the inerrant, infallible Word of God.

David:

That”€™s right. They don’t know it.

Michele Bachmann:

“€œIs this true or isn’t it true?”€ Remember, in the Old Testament, after the Scripture had been hidden for so long, and it was brought out, and it was read before the people?

David:

Yeah, that”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

The people wept with joy.

David:

That”€™s right.

The Law is for Freedom: To Free Us to Do What Is Right

Michele Bachmann:

Because there’s freedom in the law. When we think of the law- we think of something scary, and we don’t want to see the police officer pull us over. I mean who would? Because you know you’re going to get a ticket. But the law is for freedom.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

It’s to free us.  To free us to do what is right.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

For our benefit, for the benefit of our fellow man.

David:

Well, that’s why the Bible calls itself the “€œLaw of Liberty.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Yeah.

David:

If you will live by it you’ve got freedom. And that”€™s why Esther Armstrong says, “€œHey, there are 10 laws that keep you out of jail. This will keep you-“€

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

“€œA hundred thousand laws will put you in jail.  That’s not freedom.”€

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right.

David:

“€œThese laws of God will keep you out.  That’s freedom.”€

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right.

David:

And that”€™s the way it works.

Michele Bachmann:

Because the New Testament says, “€œNow the Lord is that spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”€ And that’s true liberty.

If  You Live by the Moral Law, You Don”€™t Need External Control

David:

That’s why going back to the moral law is not restricted. It gives lots of freedoms, it gives lots- because if you will live by the moral law, you have control over yourself. You don’t need external control from the outside.

There’s a great quote from Robert Winthrop that I love that he says. He says, “€œMen will be controlled either by a power within them, or a power without them. Either by the Bible or by the bayonet.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Self-control.

Another Thing We Goof-Up Is Jurisdictions

David:

And it says if you’ll do the Bible you don’t need the bayonet. You don’t need somebody trying to control you outside. And the other thing that we really get goofed-up is jurisdictions. What Jesus said in Matthew 22:21, he says, “€œRender to Caesar what is Caesar’s, to God what is God”€™s.”€

There is a jurisdiction where that Caesar has control.  There”€™s jurisdiction where God has control. The problem we’ve always had is secular governments think they are God. And they don’t recognize jurisdiction.

Michele Bachmann:

Oh, that’s so true today. Oh!

David:

A great example is the issue of marriage. Because God created marriage. He defined it.

Michele Bachmann:

God created marriage- not government.

David:

In Matthew 19, the disciples were asking about marriage, and He says, “€œGuys don’t remember at the beginning?”€ He said, “€œMan, woman- whatever God has joined together…”€ So Jesus took them back to the original. And that deal- that was God’s jurisdiction. That was before civil government ever existed.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

Civil Government came in Genesis 9. Marriage came in Genesis–

Michele Bachmann:

And it makes sense. Because if you look at sociology and human interaction, it’s first man, woman.

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Then- from man- woman descends children.

David:

That’s right.

You Don”€™t Need Civil Government Until You Have a Society

Michele Bachmann:

And then extended family. You don’t need civil government until you have a society.

David:

That’s right. And you’ve got so many families and then at that point- that’s what God did with Noah and the Ark. We’ve got a world full of people.  Now let’s establish how we do horizontal stuff. It is the rules of the game.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s what’s so brilliant about our form of government, and God’s form of government- that we are equal before the law.

David:

That’s right.  We recognize individuals, not groups.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.  Because God says he’s not a respecter of persons. He’s not partial.

David.

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

So why should we? Why should government be partial or a respecter of person? It shouldn’t.

A Creator God Created Us Equal

That’s what I love about the Declaration of Independence is because a Creator God created us equal.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

That is as revolutionary! Even today, across the world, with world governments- it is still a revolutionary concept.

David:

It is.

Michele Bachmann:

It shows the worth of you. It shows that when God made you, when God made me, when God made the viewers.  We are so valuable to Him that He lifted each one of us up before Him, but yet equal.

David:

That”€™s right. This is where secular governments get it wrong. When we had the American Revolution and the French Revolution.

We are Endowed by Our Creator

In the American Revolution, we said that all men are created equal. They’re endowed by the Creator. In the French Revolution, their motto was “€œLiberty, Equality, and Fraternity.”€ So they were into groups. Whatever fraternity, whatever group, people- and that’s what we do today. We have hate crime laws.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s where we are. That”€™s it.

David:

You know we”€™ll protect these.  I remember–

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s our world today.

David:

One of your cohorts in Congress, when they voted on the hate crime law to protect lesbians and homosexuals. One of your guys in Congress said, “€œWell, let’s also protect seniors and veterans.”€ And they said, “€œNo, no, no, those aren”€™t the people we are trying to protect.”€

Michele Bachmann:

I remember that!

David:

Remember that?

Michele Bachmann:

I remember that.

When You Recognize God is the Creator, You Can”€™t Recognize Groups

David:

“€œNo no, we’re protecting this group.  We’re not protecting that.”€ Well, see under the American system, when you recognize God is the creator- that every individual has the rights of equal protection. You can”€™t recognize groups.

Michele Bachmann:

The reason the distinction is so important between the United States system and the French system is this.  It’s tyranny.

David:

Yeah, because it puts government in charge, and-

Michele Bachmann:

But because it’s political correctness that rules the day.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

So when you’re part of a favored group, then you get special benefits that nobody else gets. That’s the very form of tyranny.

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Because when government supposedly gives something- which government has nothing to give-

David:

That’s right.

Michele Bachmann:

They”€™d have to take it away from other people. So when they give it to that certain group, that means- by definition- they’re taking it away from you. That’s why we had some Supreme Court cases recently that dealt with this issue.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

You can’t take away my right of religious conscience.

David:

That’s right.

Our First Amendment Rights Have Come from God- Not Government

Michele Bachmann:

Because the First Amendment has protected our right to believe.

David:

It came from God, it didn”€™t come from government.

Michele Bachmann:

It didn”€™t come from government. You can”€™t do that.

David:

See, this is where the marriage issue is so important on jurisdictions. In 1913, the question before the court was, “€œHey, you religious people have your religious marriages. We secular people, let us have a secular marriage. Let us define it.”€

Michele Bachmann:

Sounds like France.

David:

Well, sounds like America too. “€œYou know, we want a definition of government that includes us.  You religious guys haven’t included us- a homosexual marriage.”€ And so the issue before the court was, “€œCan you have a religious marriage and civil marriage?”€  In other words, can government create and regulate marriage?

Marriage Was Not Originated By Human Law

And here’s what the court said.  It says, marriage– This is the court, Supreme Court in 1913, a case called Grisby versus Rieves.  Supreme Court in Texas- said marriage was not originated by human law.   When God created Eve, she was a wife to Adam. They then and there occupied the status of husband to wife, and wife the husband.

The truth is a civil government has grown out of marriage- which is what you just said- which created homes a population of society from which government became necessary.

Grab this.  I would be sacrilegious to apply the designation “€œa civil contract to such a marriage. It is that and more, a status ordained by God.”€

So you’ve got government saying, “€œWe can’t touch marriage. God defined- that’s not our jurisdiction. We have to stay in our jur–“€ Man..

Michele Bachmann:

And it lowers the value of it. Honestly, when you put government in- it lowers it.

David:

Oh, it can become anything at that point.

Michele Bachmann:

Absolutely.

David:

Three dogs and a horse, and two men- and you know it can be anything.

Each One Of Us Needs To Memorize the Ten Commandments

Michele Bachmann:

And we’re going to get into more of that later. But we’ve got some really important things that we have to remember do. We’ve talked about really important topics. One thing I think- especially for every parent, but for every individual- is to make sure that each one of us learn the Ten Commandments.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

Not just read them, memorize them. And I know in our house, we have them hanging on the wall.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

We bought the biggest copy we could get. So that it would be before our face every day.  So that before the kids left the house, we left the house- this was uppermost on our mind. I”€™d recommend everyone do that.

David:

Another thing that goes with that, we’re talking about how only one out of every three Christians believes in absolute truth. Some years ago, they had the Promise Keepers rally in Washington, D.C.  And I was there, and it was interesting. The the public numbers were about 1 to 1.2 million. I talked to the park police, they said they counted 3.2 million.  So let’s say there was 2 million men there.

A camera crew went around and asked five hundred men, “€œCan you name the Ten Commandments?”€

Only one out of five hundred men could name the Ten Commandments.

Michele Bachmann:

And this is at Promise Keepers?

David:

At Promise Keepers.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s amazing.

David:

These are committed Christian men, only one out of five hundred. So what you’re saying about memorizing the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments Are Really, Really Important

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s really important, because you know what?

David:

Really, really important.

Michele Bachmann:

I sat down when I was thinking about what we’re going to talk about.  I sat down and made myself write them out.

David:

Did you really?

Michele Bachmann:

Because it’s easier for me to write it out, than say it.

David:

Yeah.

Michele Bachmann:

It’s just that exercise of going through it. And I have it in my kitchen. I have it in my house so that the kids could see it everyday. I just want encourage people.  Do that. Especially for your children. You’ll be amazed what they take away.

Know The Purpose of Law- 1 Timothy 1:8-10

And the second thing is another Scripture, and that’s to know the purpose of law.

When you”€™re talking about that on this show- and that’s from 1 Timothy 1:8-10.

David:

Memorize it.

Michele Bachmann:

To memorize that. Because really what is the purpose of government? What is the purpose of law?

David:

That tells you.  Regulate the bad guys, not the good guys.

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right. And the purpose of government is to punish evildoers and reward those who do well. And then finally–

David:

That”€™s right. And that’s the part that doesn’t get done. Is we don’t reward the righteous. We punish the bad guys- but we also punish the good guys. And rewards–

Michele Bachmann:

And we”€™re going to talk more about that, because our government has been busy doing just the opposite.

David:

Reversing the opposite.

Michele Bachmann:

Gee, why do we have a problem? Huh?

David:

That”€™s right.

Michele Bachmann:

Learn to Distinguish the Four Types of Law

So the other one is to learn to distinguish the four types of law. And ceremonial law has been completed. That’s an Old Testament, temple worship- Jesus fulfilled that law. The moral law- which we just talked about. Hang a copy up in your kitchen.  Have one at work, have one in your wallet.

David:

And read the Bible looking for rights and wrongs. I mean because gossip is also a moral wrong under God.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

David:

Tale-bearing–

Michele Bachmann:

Tell the truth,

David:

And he that separates friends.

Michele Bachmann:

That”€™s right.

The Bible Applies Across All Time

David:

All of that- read the Bible looking for rights and wrongs. And they”€™ll say, “€œWell that doesn”€™t apply today.”€ Yes it does apply today. It applies across all time.

Michele Bachmann:

It”€™s amazing how the basics you’re trying to tell your kids, are all contained right then and there.

David:

They are.

Michele Bachmann:

And then the next one is judicial. Now really all that is- the punishments for violating moral law. And that can change through time.

David:

As long as you don’t change the moral law, you can change the punishment for it.

Michele Bachmann:

You can change the punishment.

David:

But don’t say, “€œYou know homosexuality is no longer a violation of moral law.”€

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right.

David:

It is to God. You know?

Michele Bachmann:

That’s right.

David:

And so–

Michele Bachmann:

That’s a moral law.

David:

You can change the laws, you can change judicial laws.

Michele Bachmann:

And that”€™s not social compact law.

David:

That”€™s right. That”€™s a moral law.

Michele Bachmann:

Because social compact law is: what’s the speed limit? Load limits on turnip trucks? Things like that.

David:

That”€™s right.

Understand and Memorize the Basics of the Law

Michele Bachmann:

So those are the things that we do have variation, and we can’t do. And that’s why it’s so important.

Another topic that we need to discuss and stretch out another time- is the issue of jurisdiction, and separating the powers of government. So it’s important to know the basics.  You’ve got ceremonial law, moral law, judicial law, and social compact law.

David:

That”€™s right.

Understand what they are and what they aren’t. Understand and memorize what the basis of law is, what moral law is.  And we”€™ll all be better off.

Memorize the Four Types of Law: Ceremonial Law, Moral Law, Judicial Law, and Social Compact Law

David:

That will defend our foundations of freedom.  And that’s what we want to do- is preserve those foundations.

Michele Bachmann:

This was a great start today, thank you.

Part 2 Continued on tomorrow’s broadcast…