NFL Protesters, How We Can Actually Help Inner-City Violence? The flag does not defend people that do bad things, the flag represents something greater than that. Tune in now to learn about black heroes who defended the flag with their life, studies showing shocking statistics about inner city violence, and where the nation is on NFL players taking a kneel during the National Anthem. 

Air Date: 09/29/2017


Guests: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder here at  WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator.

Find out more about us and the program at our website WallBuildersLive.com, that is where we have a list of the stations, archives, and programs of the last few weeks, and a lot of other great information.

Also, WallBuilders.com, that’s where we have all of our materials, you can get videos, and DVDs, all kinds of articles you can download, there’s just a wealth of information there for your Sunday school class, for your homeschool curriculum, for your individual study.

The Scripture Where We Got Our Name “WallBuilders” 

It’s all about becoming better citizens and helping to restore our Constitutional Republic, literally rebuilding those walls. Guys, we haven’t mentioned that in a long time on our program, what WallBuilders actually stands for and what it means to arise and rebuild the wall.

David:

It means that we are not a subcontractor for President Trump building the wall on the southern border.

Rick:

Nor are we share rockers or any of those other things I get asked a lot.

David:

This is a reference to the Bible Book of Nehemiah, where that in the Bible, the walls of a city is what gave the city a strength, the security, its reputation, honor, and its dignity. If you had no walls around the city, anybody could own you, anybody could have you, you had no defense, you had no character of your own, you became like whoever was around you.

Jerusalem was one of the best of all cities at the time. They had strong walls, strong defenses, that’s how they were able to hold out their enemies for so long. That’s how they kept their own identity, their own character, they had their own customs, their own culture, they were a unique people.

That is what they had been until their walls were torn down because they sinned against God. God allowed the Babylonians to overrun them after a long siege, they tore down the walls, and once they tore down the walls then Jerusalem had no defense any longer. They became part of the Babylonian Empire.

They were no longer a distinct people, a nation of Israel. After 70 years God allows the remnant to go back to Israel and rebuild. It’s led first by the spiritual guys Zerubbabel and then Ezra. They go in as priests, they rebuild the temple, and then God allows Nehemiah to go back as governor to rebuild the rest of the city.

Nehemiah gets there, he looks at the torn down condition of the walls, and he surveys that. In Nehemiah 2:17 he says, “People, come, let’s rebuild the walls that we’re no longer a reproach.” What you have in the story of the book of Nehemiah is the largest grassroots effort in the Bible. You don’t have any notable leaders outside of Nehemiah, but every single citizen does something to help rebuild the walls.

They all had complained to Nehemiah that the task was impossible, yet, 52 days later they finished the rebuilding of the walls because everybody did something. That’s really the message of WallBuilders. Hey, if everybody gets involved, this thing can be turned around in a heartbeat.

Everybody can complain today like they did at the time of  Nehemiah that it is too far gone, education is too far shot, the political system is corrupt, the judges don’t support justice.

If everybody gets involved and does something, rebuild it in their own areas, this thing turns around in a heartbeat. That’s the message we have. It’s a grassroots call to involvement. You don’t get healthy from the top down, you get healthy from the bottom up.

We all have a responsibility to help rebuild America in our own areas, in our own communities, don’t worry about the national level. If every local community rebuilds itself the entire nation will be strong. That’s the message of WallBuilders.

Rick:

I encourage people to go read the book of Nehemiah. I remember, David, you telling me when you first started WallBuilders you read it, I forget how many times, for 30 days but you learned so much about culture and how to influence things.

David:

I wish it was. I read the entire 13 chapters of the book, cover to cover, for over six months nonstop.

Rick:

Oh, I thought it was 30 days.

David:

No, it was six months. You know, I’m a little cowboy guy from the little bitty country town, and suddenly I see how to deal with national media, I see what Nehemiah did to be able to raise funds, I see what he did with the letters to the editors, I see what he did with the attacks that came against him in the media. I just I saw all sorts of stuff I’d never seen before.

I needed that because I was going from a little town of 220 people all the way to Washington, D.C. suddenly and the book of Nehemiah gave me a whole lot of wisdom of how to be able to handle things and deal with things that were way above my pay grade. But the Bible does have everything you need for whatever situation God put you in.

Studying the Book of Nehemiah, once a day. It was after 30 days I kept saying, “Come on God. I read this yesterday, I know what it is.” Yeah, but after about 30 days I started seeing things that I have not seen in any of the previous 29, 30, 35, 40, 45 days, new things every day kept opening up.

Rick:

Good stuff. All right, folks, you can find out more at the website WallBuilders.com.

Learning From Our Black Heroes Of The Past

Rick:

Let’s get to our topic today, guys. Talking about hot topics and things that are happening in the culture. David, one of the things you’ve helped me do is actually look at history and not look at it as something that just happened in the past. But how does that apply to what I’m doing today? How can I learn from history in order to figure out what my position should be on things that are happening today?

David:

Let me just start this out with a little historical quiz, Rick. Here we go, you didn’t know this is coming. But you know I love to do quizzes.

Rick:

Great.

David:

I’m going to give you five names. Alexander Kelly, Charles Veel, Alfred B Hilton, William B. Carney, and Christian Freeman. Those five names, do you need them again?

Rick:

No, I’m 100% on this one.

David:

Alright, who are they?

Rick:

I’m 100% sure that I don’t know any of them. Therefore, I’m five for five or however many names you had.

David:

Well, let me give you the first clue. They’re all black Americans from the era of the Civil War.

Rick:

Wait a minute, so are any of them in that picture you have of the first blacks in Congress?

David:

No. The first thing they have in common is they’re all black Americans from the Civil War. The second thing they have in common is they all won the Medal of Honor, they’re all Medal of Honor winners. The third thing they have in common is they all won the Medal of Honor for not allowing the American Flag to hit the ground and be disrespected. They won the Medal of Honor for not allowing the flag to be disrespected. They put their lives- William B. Carney is a great example.

Rick:

Wait, before you tell me a specific guy, remind me the context here. So this is in the 1860s roughly?

David:

Yeah. There’s a lot to complain about regarding the nation, right? There are things that we would be unhappy that our nation is doing. This would be within 10 years of our Supreme Court saying-

David:

This is within five years-

Rick:

Within five years.

David:

“Blacks are not people, they’re property, they can be owned, and they have no rights.” As the court said, “They have no rights which any white man is bound to respect. You can do what you want with any black, at any point in time. Many have been in slavery for 240 years. As property they are abused, they are whipped, they are beaten, they are subhuman animals in the way they are treated many times.”

They have lots to complain about at that point in time. Now here’s kind of the way the story goes. I’m jumping to 1862, it’s the battle of Fort Wagner. In the battle of Fort Wagner, the Union troops are attacking a Confederate stronghold.

So, the Union Navy sits out there and bombards that stronghold all day long, knocking down the Confederate forces, so they can finally be attacked. Leading the attack is the Massachusetts 54th. It’s a black regiment, Black Union regiment. One of the first black regiments in the Civil War.

At stake is, “Can blacks fight as good as whites? Will they get into a battle and turn and run? Will they be courageous? What will they do?” This is the first chance to find out what black soldiers are made of.

As they start the attack you have their Colonel Shaw- and the officers back then were all white because they weren’t sure that blacks could fight, or how they would fight, or if they had the courage, or whatever. So, white Colonel Shaw advances, with him is the flag bearer which is a black man, Sergeant John Wall.

As they’re moving toward the Confederate stronghold, as it turns out, the bombardment didn’t do anything to weaken the Confederates. They hid behind the stone walls. As these black Union groups are attacking, the Mass 54th, they pop up and start pounding them with gunfire.

So the flag bearer goes down- and by the way, I’ve got to point out, I learned when Tim and I were on the trip in Poland just last week or so, we were with a congressman who is a really good military hero. He’s actually a guy who was able to catch Saddam Hussein after we went in, great military historian.

He was telling us that a flag bearer, what the deal is with the flag bearer, is that every single unit behind takes it’s orders from where that flag is. Whoever is carrying the flag is running the entire army, essentially.

If that flag turns and starts moving right then the entire line will shift and we’ll pivot around like a pinwheel and start moving in that direction. If the flag turns and goes back-whoever is carrying the flag is considered to be the most heroic soldier, the bravest soldier, and he’s really directing the attack.

Because he’s got a flag in his hand, he holds it high were that every soldier behind him can see it, and he’s got no gun. Now, if you’re on the other side and you know the flag bearer is the one who is controlling the attack, what do you do? You shoot at the flag bearer.

Rick:

You’re going after them.

David:

So-

Rick:

Wait, David, I’ve got to give people a visual here. A lot of our listeners, I hope, are big fans of the movie The Patriot, my favorite movie of all time. Remember the scene where the flag goes down and they’re retreating at the end and Mel Gibson picks up the flag? That’s what he goes after, he picks up the flag, waves it at the guy and says, “No, we’ve got to keep going. And he turned the whole tide of the deal by getting the flag going back in the right direction.” Ok, sorry, go ahead.

William Carney’s Courageous Story

David:

Now, see, that’s not the way we think of the military today. But that’s how it was done in the American War for Independence. That’s how it was done in the Civil War, etc. So John Wall was carrying the flag, he goes down.

Before the flag hits the ground Sergeant William B. Carney threw his rifle to the ground, reached over and grabbed the flag out of the air and carried the flag on forward leading the troops where they’re supposed to go. He gets shot in the leg and he keeps going forward.

As he is going forward they get under the Confederate wall and the Confederates can’t quite fire down on them because they’re right under the wall. But they’ve recognized, “We are in serious trouble. We have not weakened these guys at all. They’re pounding us.”

So he keeps them there for several hours and then he starts leading them back to start another assault. As he leads them back, he’s got the flag, leading back to rearrange, regroup, he gets shot in the chest, he then gets shot in the leg again, and then he gets shot in the head. Each time he gets shot, “Sarge, let me take the flag.” “No, you’re not taking the flag. I’ve got the flag.”

He does that all the way back to the line. When he got back the line he handed the flag off and said, “Boys, never let it touch the ground.” And he fell over and fainted. Four bullets.

Rick:

Wow.

David:

He got the Medal of Honor for that. By the way, all five of those soldiers I mentioned got the Medal of Honor for defending the American flag, not letting it touch the ground, for showing it the utmost respect. These are guys who lived at a tough point in time for blacks.

Rick:

No kidding.

David:

Rick, let me go a step further. Here’s what blacks are facing. Not only do they face all discrimination, they face an enemy that when they were at Fort Pillow- and by the way, this engagement at Fort Wagner is what gave blacks their place in the Union Army. They were so courageous, so brave, so unrelenting, it got them a permanent place in the Union Army and they became a big part of the Civil War. So these are our great warriors, great fighters, great soldiers. On the other side, are the Confederates so at the Battle of Fort Pillow-

Rick:

Hey, David, hold that thought. We’ll be right back with Fort Pillow. Stay with us folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “As incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you’ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

The Barbaric Killings At Fort Pillow

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. David, you were right in the middle of a cool story. This is the Civil War era, we’ve already had the first battle. What was the name of that first one?

David:

The first was the battle of Fort Wagner.

Rick:

So, Fort Wagner. This is where those black troops really proved themselves. And now fast forward to Fort Pillow.

David:

Yes. They’ve been proving themselves, they are a great asset in the Union Army, now they’re at the Battle of Fort Pillow. They end up losing the battle, once they do, they surrender. Of course, every loser of every battle surrenders to the other side at some point.

So they surrender, and then they find out, guess what. The Confederates have a policy that no black is allowed to surrender. They will be killed on the spot. So all of these black soldiers are surrendered thinking they’re going to be treated the way that they treat Confederates when Confederates surrender.

Find out, no, it’s a death sentence for them. So they drowned them alive, they burned them alive, they nailed them to the sides of walls, and barns, essentially crucified them on the sides of buildings. There’s reports of some being buried alive, some being skinned, I mean, it was barbaric.  It was Nathan Bedford Forrest who led the Confederates who did that. He then became the founder of the Ku Klux Klan. So, this is how blacks are treated at that point in time.

Rick:

A Democrat arm, by the way, the Ku Klux Klan. Of course, that’s a whole other story. But go ahead.

David:

Well, yeah. I mean, Nathan Bedford Forrest was one of the honored members of the Democrat National Convention of 1868. He is one of the two founders of the Ku Klux Klan. And the Klan was founded not to kill blacks, it was founded to retake control from the Republicans. That was it’s stated purpose.

So that meant every black had to go because all blacks were Republicans at that point in time. We have congressional hearings where they did find one black in Mississippi who said he was a Democrat, but that was it.

So all blacks were Republicans at the time. And we have a Klan Hit card from 1868 out of South Carolina where it shows 63 people who need to be taken out. Fifty blacks and 13 whites. They’re all members of the South Carolina legislature. So, 63 Republicans need to be taken out of the South Carolina’s legislature, both black and white. It’s a Klan card. So, that’s Nathan Bedford Forrest. That’s the kind of barbarity these guys are facing at Fort Pillow.

What About The Black Oppression Today

David:

So, here you’ve got these guys facing that. Now, let’s roll forward 100 years to the civil rights movement. Let’s go forward to what’s happening with bombings and churches.

Rick:

Quick summary on that. Even in the barbaric stuff that they were facing, in their nation of America, they were still giving their lives and receiving the Medal of Honor to protect the flag and to honor the flag. Go ahead, now fast forward 100 years.

David:

You’re right Rick, I mean, their honor and respect for the flag was that they are willing to give their life for it and they get the Medal of Honor because they have such respect for it. Because it represented the ideals, it represented that which they want to do, and that which they want to become. And no, it’s not always perfect. But my gosh, better than any other nation that’s out there.

Roll forward 100 years, Dr. Martin Luther King and others, you get the civil rights movement. With that you get the bombings of the churches, the shootings, and the assassinations of blacks, the fire hoses turned on, and the dogs on you, you get bayonets thrust on them, and you get all this stuff going on. It’s not as bad as it was in 1860 but it’s still really bad. And guess what? Those guys had a huge respect for the American flag as well.

Now, let’s roll for 50 years. We’re getting paid anywhere from $3-$20 million a year. We’re having 80,000 people packed into a stadium to scream and yell for us because they love what we do. And we’re so mistreated that we have to disrespect the American flag. Really? Is is that quite right?

Rick:

What a contrast there.

Tim:

Guys. Let me through out there, let me let me be a little bit of the devil’s advocate. Obviously, they would say, “Well, we’re not talking about our mistreatment. We’re talking about these poor victims of police brutality, the people that are targeted by police officers, and the systematic racism that suppresses these minorities, and you’re trying to keep us down.” I think they would argue that, “Well, we’re not protesting because we’re oppressed but our people are oppressed.” Even then-

David:

Particularly the really more notable police shootings. What are some of the names?

Tim:

Michael Brown, you have Trayvon, there’s a list of six or seven that I’ve heard people mention. Some of them, interestingly enough, like the Trayvon Martin was not a police shooting.

David:

Here it is, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, Walter Scott, Laquan McDonald, and Altan Stirlings. Yeah, you got these that are police shootings.

Tim:

And even with this, sometimes you watch the videos of these and you can hear the police officer saying multiple times, “Put the weapon down,” “Turn around,” or “Do this.” Any time you do not follow and acquiesce to what the police officer asked you to do, you’re not putting yourself in a position for success.

Whether or not the officer should have engaged, not engaged- The NFL protesters say, “Well, it’s because all these officers were acquitted and they got away.” And all this kind of stuff that goes on. Certainly, we can look at those scenarios and go, “Hey, there are some bad situations. In fact, we could even say that there are some bad officers out there.”

David:

Because they are human beings out there.

NFL Protesters, What Are They Fighting For

Tim:

That’s right. We can all agree, I mean, there is human nature and it doesn’t matter what job you pick, you can find bad people in that profession and in that job. You look at the NFL, I’ve never seen an NFL protesting domestic violence. But if you look at NFL players, there’s a lot of domestic violence among NFL players.

Rick:

To add another perspective just to throw in there real quick. When a Christian pastor was arrested a couple of years ago by a homosexual police officer and it was totally unwarranted and ended up getting thrown out and everything. We didn’t all say, “We’re not going to say the Pledge of Allegiance and we’re not going to stand for the flag because a fellow Christian was abused and treated wrong by a rogue police officer.” Right?

That’s how it seems like this is happening. You do have some bad situations, but the country itself, we want to be coming together and that’s what the flag stands for. David, I think that’s what you’re saying. Even in much worse times, black Americans and white Americans still said, “Hey, we still want to make the nation better. We’re still going to defend the flag and stand for the flag.”

Tim:

Rick, to that point, there were values that they were fighting for and they recognized, “The values of what we want are found in what this flag represents.” The flag does not defend people that do bad things, the flag represents something greater than that.

In the midst of this thought of something greater than that, as we talk about- The argument is, “Police officers are targeting these minority populations.” Ok, let’s say there are some police officers who do that, and that is terrible, and that needs to be stopped.

Rick:

We will be right there with you trying to stop that.

Tim:

No doubt. We can all go, “That should not happen. You’re not alone in the midst of protesting some of those bad situations.” But what’s crazy to me is the thought behind it is, “We want to protect the minorities and we want to preserve the lives of these black individuals that are being taken out.”

What’s interesting to me is I’ve never heard or seen an NFL player that wanted to protest gang violence in the inner city. But according to the FBI statistics, gang violence accounts for 90% of black homicide from black on black violence, from these gang members that do drive-by shootings, these gang members that target each other.

Ninety percent of black homicide is black on black violence and these NFL players don’t want to protest these gangs, they don’t want to protest this. The majority of the homicides that are happening from these inner cities, they don’t protest that. They protest what is a very minuscule percentage. Not to diminish or to say that there’s not reason on some of these situations to go, “That was bad, that was wrong, and that shouldn’t happen.”

I’m not trying to say that there are no situations that are not worthy of protest in what they are protesting. However, if the real question is we want to preserve these minorities, we want to defend these black lives. You’re missing the really big picture of where the majority of these targets take place.

Why Is Nobody Talking About These Shocking Statistics

David:

What happens is Black Lives Matters is what’s running the rhetoric right now. It’s not historically based, not logically based, it’s not even a statistically based. As matter of fact, if you look at blacks who are shot by police, it is a fraction of 1 percent.

As Tim mentioned, more than 90. Matter of fact, let me give you a stat. In the two years from 2010 to 2011, there were fourteen hundred more blacks murdered by other blacks than were murdered in 86 years of lynching from 1882 to 1968. In two years black gangs murdered more blacks than in essentially 90 years of the lynching of blacks.

Now, how come nobody’s talking about that kind of violence? Black on black gang violence, why are we addressing the one fraction of one percent and refusing to respect the flag because of that?

By the way, here’s one other piece that you might find kind of interesting. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a guy named Roland Fryer, an economist. Do you know him at all, anything about him?

Roland Fryer is the youngest black professor to have received tenure at Harvard. Here’s a black professor at Harvard, we can probably maybe assume he might be left of center somewhere. He took a study of racial bias in police shootings.  When he finished that study he said it was, “The most surprising result of my career.”

He examined 1,000 police shootings in 10 major police departments across the country, in San Francisco, in Houston, St. Louis, and whatever, the big city police shootings. He found that while black suspects are more likely to have physical altercations with the police, rough up, or push, or get pushed against the wall, they are less likely to be shot. Here’s what he said, “Officers were more likely to fire their weapons without having first been attacked when the suspects were white.”

That’s a black economist who said, “This is the most recent surprising result of my career. I knew I was going to find that blacks were being targeted by police but what I found is that whites are more often shot by police than blacks are. Shocking statistic.” How come nobody’s talking about that?

Tim:

Let me throw out one caveat with his study is that he did find that non-lethal force was more often used-

David:

Physical altercations, that’s right.

Tim:

But lethal force. So people can still go, “Well, see, they’re still targeting.” Again, I mean, racism, we can all agree, “That’s wrong. That’s a problem. Yes, we are all on board with that.” But we’re talking about police shootings right now. So if we’re talking about police shootings- that doesn’t mean that every police shooting is a good deal.

However, what we are doing, again, if we’re going to say, “We need to defend the life of minorities. We need to protect them, we need to help them, we want to do what we can to defend them.” Then where is the greatest threat to their lives? The greatest threat to their lives is not from police officers, the greatest threat to their lives is from inner city gang violence. That is the greatest threat to minorities.

NFL, Here Is How We Can Actually Help Inner-City Violence

If we want to help minorities, here’s what we need to do, don’t kneel and protest the national anthem. Let’s work to change your inner cities because that’s where the majority these problems happen.

David:

What happens is, the people who are into this, Black Lives Matter, they don’t know history, they don’t know statistics, they don’t know current studies, and this is the product of coming out of a liberal education.

Every NFL player went through one of these colleges. Colleges right now lean heavily left and they’re very anti-American. So what you’re seeing on that fills the product. Now here’s the good news, this is not where Americans are.

You may have seen the studies that came out after last weekend’s big deal on NFL players taking a knee, 36 percent of Americans say that they are now less likely to watch NFL football games because of the flag disrespect. That’s pretty significant. So the American people clearly aren’t on the side of disrespecting the American flag. Although, there’s great support for being able to deal with police officers who are wrong. That doesn’t mean you trash the entire nation and take down the nation because of that. Again, this is we’re a left leaning education and a lack of historical knowledge lead to bad results in public policy.

Rick:

Thanks for listening folks, you’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live!