Pastors Are Running For Office, Hundreds Of Them, With Pastor David Lane: We”€™re always encouraging people to influence the culture, we talk about the importance of Christians being engaged in government, we give tools to help you stand up for what you believe in. Now, we are seeing that come to fruition. Pastor David Lane is on talking about how hundreds of Pastors are standing up for their faith and running for office. Tune in now to learn more!

Air Date: 01/30/2018

Guest: Pastor David Lane

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! We”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. Always talking about those topics, though, from a certain perspective – it”€™s a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective. If you take those three perspectives, you”€™re going to find the right position on every issue and know what to do to influence the culture in a positive way.

We’re having our conversation today with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also Tim Barton with us, a national speaker and pastor, and the president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I”€™m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more about us at our two websites, WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. The live, WallBuildersLive.com, is the radio site. And then WallBuilders.com, that’s our other site with a wealth of information. A lot of great tools there for you and your family to get equipped and inspired.

Tim Barton calling in from on the road out there teaching at a college campus this week. First of all, Tim, thanks for influencing the next generation there on that college campus, but thanks for calling in too. Appreciate you still being on the show today.

Tim:

Well, guys, this is something I love to be a part of. I’m talking about what’s happening in culture and it’s certainly looking at it from that historical, Constitutional, Biblical, perspective which are all things I appreciate. I apologize for the less than stellar phone connection, but I’m happy to be a part of the show today.

Pastors in the Culture

Rick:

Well, guys, this is going to be an interesting program because we”€™re always talking about influencing the culture. We talk about the importance of Christians being engaged in government just like any other area of the culture. But today we’re going to talk specifically about pastors being involved in the culture.

David Lane is going to be with us later in the program to talk about hundreds of pastors now running for public office across the country. Before we get into that though, you guys help me with kind of putting that in perspective from a historical perspective. Our founders didn’t shy away from that at all. In fact, weren’t a lot of them pastors and certainly pastors that even led in the battlefield actually fighting in the Revolutionary War let alone influencing the political part?

David:

Well, even before looking at the historical, Rick, I think that today, if you polled the nation and said, “€œWhat do you think about pastors running for office?”€ I think that you might get a decent percentage to said, “€œWell they’ve got a right to do so, but I really don’t think they ought to.”€ And I think you would probably, I’m guessing, I would say probably seven or eight out of ten Christians would feel uncomfortable about a pastor running for office. Don’t think they ought to be doing that. Don’t think they should do– I’ve seen some polling on this in previous years, I haven’t seen any recently, but there’s a discomfort with people doing this.

Because we so compartmentalize the culture that, hey, religious people are supposed to do religious things and secular people are supposed to do secular things. And government is secular not religious because we’ve got separation of church and state, so I really don’t think pastors ought to be involved. And so now you get somebody like David Lane and the goal with David is to have 1000 pastors run for office. They’re well on their way to that, by the way. And that, certainly, has driven the left crazy.

I see a lot of articles come across the left saying, “€œOh this is going to be a theocracy. These pastors are running for office. This is terrible.”€ David Lane”€™s got them all stirred up.”€ And it’s not that case at all.

We’re talking about a very small percentage of pastors here. But even that small percentage just scares the left spitless on this and it got me thinking about something that happened historically.

Pastors Involved in the Founding Era

David:

Rick, you mentioned we had a lot of pastors involved back in the founding era and one of those pastors was a guy named Reverend Dr. John Witherspoon. He was the president of Princeton University, he trained people for the ministry, and he was a member of Congress. He was a signer of the Declaration of Independence, he was one of George Washington’s bosses on the board of war that helped conduct the revolution, the military aspects of it and he actually lost a son in the revolution fighting for America in the revolution – he was so active he served on over 100 committees in Congress. Try 100 committees in Congress and that’s what he did – the guy’s just unbelievable.

And what happened was, after we separated from Great Britain we had some states like New York, and Georgia, and others, actually put clauses in their Constitution that said, “€œNo minister can run for office.”€ And when that happened, for example, in the 1777 Constitution of Georgia, Reverend Witherspoon who is a congressman himself, Continental Congress, he wrote a scathing letter to the Georgia legislature. It’s really pretty cool what he did because he laid out the logic. And what I would ask people today is, “€œWell, I don’t think a pastor should be running for office.”€

“€œOkay, so you don’t think he’s a citizen, is that what you’re telling me? Because any citizen has the right to run for office. So, you’re telling me that he’s not a– he’s lower than a citizen, is that what you’re telling me?”€ “€œWell, no that’s what –“€ But see, that’s essentially what we do by putting a legal prohibition on them. Or any, even, if you will, not a legal, but a quasi legal prohibition, “€œWell, they shouldn’t be doing that.”€

We”€™re Relegated Them to a Place Lower Than a Normal Citizen

David:

We’ve relegated them to a place lower than having the rights of a normal citizen. That really is the approach that John Witherspoon took. So, let me read just a little bit of what he said here to the legislature of Georgia 1777. He said, “€œWe understand generally what a person is who is a minister. They”€™re set apart for the Gospel and they”€™re authorized to preach and administer the sacraments of the Christian religion.”€

He said, “€œNow allow me to ask this question – before any man among us was ordained a minister, was he not a citizen of the United States? And if he lived in Georgia, wasn’t he a citizen of the state of Georgia? If so, had he not then a right to be elected a member of the assembly if he’s qualified in all the points of law? How has he lost or why is he deprived of this right? Did he do something to disqualify him?

“€œIs it a sin against the public for him to become a minister of the Gospel? Does it merit that he, a person who is guilty of being a minister, should be immediately deprived of one of his most important rights as a citizen? Is this not inflicting a penalty which always supposes an offense? Is a minister then disqualified for the office of Senator or Representative? Does this calling of “€˜minister”€™ render him stupid or ignorant? Is he a criminal?”€

And he just keeps going through and it’s the same logic of, “€œWhy would you give a preacher less rights than you would give any other citizen?”€ And by the way, they ended up removing that provision of their Constitution and New York did as well. All of those provisions went away because they’re illogical. You don’t say that a preacher is less than a citizen or has less rights. So, that letter from Witherspoon is really good.

And we’ve really bought into this compartmentalization thing so much of telling the church that it needs to stay in the background, and you can go help poor people and run a soup kitchen, and you can have altar calls. But don’t get involved in education, or on school campuses. Don’t get involved in government or politics. It’s crazy – you don’t lose your citizenship just for being religious. And so that’s been really the right response when all these guys have gone wacky over David Lane really training those who want to learn how to run for office.

He’s got a couple of guys that work with him that are great political consultants, Christian guys. And they literally show these guys how to run for offices, local school board, or city council, or mayor, or whatever it is. And it drives these other guys left to think there might actually be a minister of the gospel who has served in public office.

Think About the Qualifications

Rick:

Just think about the qualifications. When you”€™ve got a pastor, they’ve typically dealt with a– not typically, they’ve dealt with a budget, they’ve dealt with management, they’ve dealt with hiring and firing, and all the things that those leaders are going to have to do. So, they’re actually quite qualified just from even a secular perspective to be able to do the job well. Let alone the fact that we need so badly moral clarity, and knowing the right thing to do, and having the backbone to do the right thing, and not give in to bribes, and not give in to all the things that we see in the nasty side of politics. Very exciting to me that we’d have these kind of folks running for office.

David Lane will be our special guest. We’ll be right back. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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Encouragement for Pastors

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our good friend, David Lane, is with us from the TheAmericanRenewalProject.org. And pastors, really encourage them to go there because it’s got great encouragement, great tools, all kinds of things that will help to equip them and get them engaged and just encourage them to to stay in the fight. So, David, appreciate what you guys are doing there.

Pastor David Lane:

Thank you, Rick. This model began in 2005 in Texas with Governor Perry. And since then we’ve put up 20,000 pastors, plus spouses, as our guest. Giving them a hotel room, fed them three meals, and loved on them, and never asked them for a penny. And the goal is to restore America to our Judeo Christian heritage and re-establish a Biblically based culture.

So, that’s what we’re up to.

Rick:

When you bring them in like that and they spend a day or so with you, what types of things do you guys discuss? How do you approach that whole – I’m sure a lot of them coming and going, “€œWell, I’ve never dealt with “€˜politics”€™ or the “€˜government side”€™.”€ So they bought, a lot of pastors have bought the lie of that total separation. So, how do you approach that with them?

Pastor David Lane:

Of course, I don’t see it as political, I see it as somebody”€™s values are going to reign supreme. And if we stay home, which evangelical Christians and pro-life Catholics Christians have done, in “€˜08 we didn’t show up, in “€˜12 we didn’t show up. And so when we don’t show up, somebody’s values are going to reign supreme. So, if the other side that believes in homosexual marriage, transgender bathrooms, taking the guns away, etc., then they’re going to impose their will. That’s the way a democratic republic works.

The Goal is to Turn America Back to Him

Pastor David Lane:

So, it’s real critical that we get engaged if we’re going to turn America back to Him and that’s the goal. And all we do is just love on them and we have tremendous speakers.

In fact, our last one was in Kansas City, probably a month ago, six weeks ago. *Oz Guinness was with us. Our next one is in St. Louis March 22nd-23rd. Eric Metaxas will be with us. Then we have a big team of speakers and singers that travel with us all across the country.

The goal is to turn America back to Him. And now we have, as you mentioned, 250 or so pastors, 200 ran in “€˜16 for local office, county commissioners, school board–

Rick:

So these are pastors that are saying, “€œHey, I’ve got my kind of John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg thing – I’m a citizen of heaven, but I’m a citizen of Earth as well.”€ So, they’re still serving their church, but they’re saying, “€œHey, I need to serve the community as well.”€

Pastor David Lane:

Yeah. Really how it started– my pastor in California, this is godless, liberal, California, that the last two speakers of the assembly were homosexuals openly. And so in 2013, at the end of “€˜13, an assemblywoman called my pastor, Rob McCoy. Pastor Rob is 50 years old, he was a high school All-American swimmer, swam in college, still has records in college. And we pray at our church, led by the senior pastor every Sunday night.

But they called Pastor Rob and said, “€œYou know, your assemblyman is running for Congress, that”€™s an open seat, we think you should run.”€ He said, “€œI have no interest in that. Let me talk to my wife and pray about it.”€ So, in the middle of his sermon in December of 2013, he announced he was running for the Assembly seat in Thousand Oaks. Women cried, men passed out.

So, the Republican invited him to Sacramento in January 14 and informed him, “€œWe have no interest in this. We’re not interested in you running. We’re not interested in your issues.”€ So, they recruited a male Hispanic * and gave him a million dollars.

Rick:

Wow.

A Jungle Primary

Pastor David Lane:

So, it’s a jungle primary which in California means they all run together and the top two vote getters then get into the general election. So, my pastor several times on Saturday had 250 volunteers that showed up–

Rick:

Wow.

Pastor David Lane:

–on every door in the district, called every home in the district, and on primary election day, which I think was in April, the Democrat got 43 percent of the vote. My pastor got 32 percent of vote. * got 21 percent of the vote. Now my pastor is in the general election. Now this is a state assembly seat, a state rep”€™s seat in California.

The Democrats spent 6.3 million against him in the general election.

Rick:

6 million in a state legislative House race.

Pastor David Lane:

Yep.

Rick:

Wow.

Pastor David Lane:

They beat tar out of him and so he spent a million eight, but at the end of the campaign, he had 650 volunteers. He had an army marching. On the night before the election, Newt Gingrich emailed me, “€œLet me know how your pastor does tomorrow.”€ Mike Huckabee emailed me, “€œLet me know how Pastor Rob does tomorrow.”€ Ranks Primas, then the RNC chairman, emailed me and said, “€œYour pastor–“€ he”€™s looking at numbers– “€œYour pastor is going to win tomorrow.”€

It took about a week after the election. He got beat, barely.

Rick:

Wow.

What if the Lord Called 1,000 Pastors?

Pastor David Lane:

With 130,000 votes, he came, I think it was 4,000 short. But it was waiting that week, I think the Lord gave it to me. I was praying about it and I was thinking, on our hundred thousand pastors e-mail list, what if the Lord were to call a thousand pastors? Now, ninety nine percent of them are not going to run, they shouldn’t run. But what if the Lord called a thousand pastors to run–

Rick:

Yeah.

Pastor David Lane:

–and they average half of what my pastor did – 300 volunteers. That”€™d be a 300,000 grassroots–

Rick:

Wow.

Pastor David Lane:

–precinct level explosion in the public square.

Rick:

Oh wow!

Pastor David Lane:

So, my pastor since then, by the way, became the city councilman. Now he’s the mayor pro tem of Thousand Oaks California and he has done a tremendous job. So, that’s really where the idea came from.

So, in 2015 Bobby Jindal, then Governor Jindal of Louisiana, he hosted the first 200 pastors and a few wives showed up kicking the tires, “€œIs God calling me to run for school board, or city council?”€ And then Ted Cruz called a bunch of them in “€˜15. Mike Huckabee called a bunch of them, Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma called them. Anyway, we had 2,000 pastors that showed up kicking the tires in “€˜15. In “€˜16, 200 of those ran.

It”€™s Organic

Pastor David Lane:

And it’s organic. I don’t even keep up with who’s running. We have no organization, that’s just organic, coming up from the bottom. And so on the website you mentioned, TheAmericanRenewalProject.org, a Washington Times columnist has written several articles, Scott Lamb, about these pastors. He’s probably done ten stories now on pastors that have run and won – I don’t who know they are.

Rick:

No kidding.

Pastor David Lane:

Yeah, I don’t even keep up with them. It’s just, there’s something that’s coming up from the bottom.

Rick:

Yeah. Yeah. And what”€™s so cool, what you mentioned, it’s not just that so many pastors are running, it’s how many people get engaged as a result of that. Because they do bring an army with them–

Pastor David Lane:

Yep.

Rick:

–of folks that that have been saying, “€œYou know, we don’t know what to do. We’re frustrated. We see what’s happening in the country. We need somebody we can get behind.”€ And when that pastor steps forward, it”€™s like, okay, no brainer–

Pastor David Lane:

Right.

Rick:

–this is somebody I know I can support.

Pastor David Lane:

And what we’re doing is spiritual, the byproduct is political. And how I framed that is, there’s really nothing good or bad about the Democrat Party. There’s nothing good or bad about the Republican Party. They’re holding vessels that you pour things into. Like minded constituents are housed there.

But I can say this without fear of being contradicted – people that believe in taking a baby’s life the day before it’s born, and homosexual marriage, and transgender bathrooms, and etc., they’re not housed in the Republican Party. Now we’re doing an awful job, but the battle really boils down not between Democrats and Republicans, but between secularism versus Christianity.

Rick:

Yeah.

It”€™s Not About Democrats and Republicans

Pastor David Lane:

And the Republicans have the same problem. It’s just that the Democrats are generally housed the people that don’t believe what evangelical and pro-life Christians believe. But in the Republican Party the secularists are in control of the power centers just as well. So, this is not about Democrats and Republicans. It’s about turning America back to Him.

Rick:

Amen. Amen. Hey, David, let me get a couple of action steps for our listeners here. So, first of all, pastors that are listening, or if you think your pastor would be interested that might want to go to one of your conferences. How did they find out about that and reach out to you there?

David Lane:

I would go to TheAmericanRenewalProject.org.

Rick:

Okay.

Pastor David Lane:

Just leave a message and then we’ve got a big team and somebody will be following up with them.

Rick:

Okay, great. And then a pastor that’s interested in potentially running for office or, like you said, “€œkicking the tire”€, same thing – hit the website?

Pastor David Lane:

Same thing, hit the website, leave a message. We’ve a team, I mentioned. And for example, I don’t even know, I guess it’s true, I think it was Don Hinkel who’s the editor of the Baptist Pathway in Missouri– I think there’s 4000 Southern Baptist pastors in Missouri– He emailed me a couple of weeks ago and he said nine pastors in Missouri are running–

Rick:

Wow.

Pastor David Lane:

–from the Southern Baptist side. And as I said it’s organic though. We’re not keeping up with it.

A Lasting Legacy

Pastor David Lane:

But I was with Newt Gingrich, it’s been a year and a half ago now, and I’m leaving his office after a 20 minute meeting, and I’m walking out, I open the door, and he said, “€œHey, by the way, Lane–“€ “€œYeah?”€  “€œYou know what your legacy is?”€ And I said, “€œno”€. He said, “€œNot the pastors in pews events, and those are tremendous. Your legacy is these pastors running now for local office.

20 or 30 years from now they’re going to have changed America. You’ll never see it in your lifetime though.”€

Rick:

Yep. Yep. Amen.

Pastor David Lane:

It’s the Lord, it”€™s not about me. I don’t know how many pastors in pews events we’ve done since “€˜05, maybe 100-150. I’ve never spoken at one event. This is not about me. This is about Him.

Rick:

Well, it’s having a tremendous impact. I agree with Newt – I think you get these pastors running these local offices, it’s going to have a tremendous impact in decades to come. That’s how you pass the torch to the next generation intact.

Pastor David Lane:

Exactly.

Rick:

It’s vital. David, appreciate your work, appreciate what you guys are doing.

Again, the website – TheAmericanRenewalProject.com or .org – either one. It will get you to the same website. And tell your pastors about it, folks, send an e-mail right now. Get online, send an e-mail to your pastor and say, “€œHey, you ought to check this out and maybe go to one of their conferences.”€

David, appreciate you coming on. Brother, let’s get you back again.

Pastor David Lane:

Thank you, brother. God bless you.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Biographical Sketches

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well,, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks to David Lane for being on the program with us today and for doing great work getting pastors equipped and inspired out there and actually getting them into these local races. We’re back with David and Tim Barton. Guys, that’s very encouraging. Several hundred and it sounds like it’s– like he said it’s a very organic movement.

David:

It is. And again, recognize that what he does first of all, is not try to get guys to run for office. He does these pastors briefings, he does these renewal seminars, and he”€™s done them all over the nation. I’ve been involved with David doing that for years, and years, and years. And you bring ministers in, and get them inspired, and help them get a perspective on what”€™s going on in the culture, and it’s not political kind of stuff.

Quite frankly, there are some great pastors who deliver some great Biblical stuff to these pastors. Really encouraging them to develop some backbone and stand up and lead their church. And out of that has grown guys who said, “€œWell, I want to lead in my community as well.”€ It’s not that David’s out there recruiting these guys and trying to turn every pastor into a candidate – that’s not the case.

As he pointed out, you’ve had 20,000 pastors run through those renewal projects and so far he’s had about 400 guys run for office. That’s a pretty small percentage. We’ve got to keep the perspective on this. But, at the same time, if a pastor wants to run for office, what’s the deal?

Other Pastors in Congress Right Now

David

And I think right now in the U.S. Congress I think is it, Tim, are there six pastors? Jody Hice, a Baptist Pastor, and Scott Walker, and several others. I think there are six pastors who are actually serving in Congress right now and they’re doing a great job.

Tim:

I think you’re right. I think it’s about six pastors that are currently. And certainly, we can point to a lot more that have been in Congress, been in the Senate. But it certainly is something that’s very optimistic. When we’re looking at culture and we see that darkness seems to be pervading culture around us, it’s so easy to get frustrated and to get even disillusioned.

But you know the solution– Tim Brooks, one of our good pastor friends, says that we make things more complicated than they should be. If you walk into a room and it’s dark, you don’t get frustrated about the darkness, you just turn on the light. And having these pastors run for office, to me, really seems to be one of those really good “€œturn the the light”€ kind of remedies. When we’re seeing so much corruption, and so much scandal, and so many of these negative things happening. We need some people with a higher standard of morality with their own personal life, with their personal conduct, personal behavior.

We need some people that have an understanding, Rick, is as you pointed out, even of the way basic budget operates, or interacting with people, and having integrity in those relationships. Pastors really seem like this is a really good solution. And then the fact that they’re having so many people support them along the way as they’re having their army of these marchers and volunteers that are coming. And they”€™re bringing more people into this kind of collective community of getting involved and being salt and light at this level. Over all, this is a really encouraging deal.

Remember the Experience a Pastor Brings

David:

Even what both of you just said, look at the experience that a pastor brings to office. He knows how to work with people, knows how to handle controversies, handled budgets, he’s actually run a business which is what a church is, and he brings that to office.

David’s pastor, he was talking about his pastor, Rob McCoy, who ran for that assembly seat. And by the way, can you imagine 6.3 million being spent on a state assembly seat in opposition?

Rick:

It”€™s crazy. Wow.

David:

And he still barely loses. He lives in a part of California that’s pretty wacky. He’s not in the conservative belt of the state. And so he gets elected to the city council there in Thousand Oaks and the city there is big enough that you could consider that the equivalent of a assembly seat, quite frankly. So as he came in, I remember when he went in, the opposition was really high, “€œWe don’t want a preacher on there.”€

And he has been such a calming force on that, and he’s helped reduce the polarization, and helped them talk calmly through things that now he is the mayor pro tem. The guys who opposed him have now voted him up to the highest spot right below the mayor because of the way he’s handled business, and handled– and I say not just business in the sense of economics, but in the sense of their discussions, and debates, and the questions he asked, and the reasoning he does. And that’s not what they expected, but that’s what he brought to the table. That’s what pastors often can bring to the table is that base of experience they’ve had in so many other arenas.

Rick:

Guys, what would you say to pastors who are listening or are folks who want encouraged their pastors about considering this? You got, obviously, you”€™ve got a lot of responsibility already with your church and your family. How do you weigh a decision like this?

Where to Start

David:

Well, you”€™ve got to get– when pastors talk to us about this, and we”€™ve talk to a lot of pastors, helped a lot of pastors, trained a lot of pastors to run for office. We’ve actually met with groups of pastors and showed them how to do this the same David does. It’s the same rules for everybody, it’s an easy process. And David does a great job of it and the guys that work for him do a great job of it.

But you start with a real simple thing is number one, you better find out that God hadn’t told you “€œno”€. Now, He might be silent on it and therefore you can make a decision. But if He told you “€œno”€, you stay out of it. Number two, you get family and spouse. And if they tell you “€œno”€, you stay out of it. Number three, you get your church’s permission.

And if your church tells you “€œno”€, you either resign from the church or you stay out of it. So that’s the first decisions to make. And then once you do that, you have to learn the process. 2 Timothy 2:5 says, “€œNobody gets crowned as a victor unless they run according to the rules.”€

Okay, you need to learn some rules of how campaigns work. There are some legal rules that have to be followed. There’s some actually common sense rules. And there’s books like Vicky Hartzler, Congresswoman Vicky Hartzler, we”€™ve had her on, it”€™s called Running God’s Way. We have all those guys learn the things that she puts forth in that book.

So, it’s an easy thing to do and people can do it – there’s no question. But first three things – hear from God, hear from your family, and hear from your church, and then make your decision.

Pastors Are Running For Office, Hundreds Of Them!

Rick:

Folks, there”€™s lots of great information at our website today at WallBuilders.com, be sure to get that. If you have a pastor that’s interested, we’ll have links today so you can get them information as well. So, check that out today at WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. We appreciate you listening to WallBuildersLive.