Patriot Academy Session: Cultural Marxism, Part 2 – With Voddie Baucham: How do we apply the implications of the Gospel to politics? Have you heard how cultural Marxism has infiltrated our education system? Has critical theory influenced your pastor?  What does understanding our culture’s worldview have to do with preaching the Gospel? Tune in to hear part 2 of this important session with Voddie Baucham.

Air Date: 08/13/2020

Guest: Voddie Baucham

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live where we’re always talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith and the culture, always from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And today. we’re going to pick up right where we left off on that topic: Dealing with Marxism in America Today.

Yesterday, we had Dr. Voddie Baucham on the program. I love this man, just a phenomenal interview with him at Patriot Academy last week and we wanted to share it with you here, our WallBuilders Live listeners. It was too much to get into one program though, so today is part two, we’re going to be picking up right where we left off yesterday.

Actually, we’re going to back up a little bit into the interview, so you’re not totally lost in catching up where we were yesterday. But if you missed yesterday completely, then go to today and you can get a copy of that interview.

It’s so important for us to have truth. We’ve got to start with truth. Even back when all this stuff happened, when the riots first started happening, you know, we were saying on this program, look, start with truth. Don’t just join a movement or join a cause, because you want to virtue signal or because you want to feel good about it or you want to make sure you’re not a racist.

Look at the facts, look at the information and make sure that what you’re doing is based on truth. Just like the Declaration of Independence, we start with that idea of we hold these truths to be self-evident.

When we come back from the break, we’re going to be jumping right back into that interview with Dr. Voddie Baucham. We have links to his ministry on our website today. We are so glad you’re with a stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

A Moment from American History

This is Tim Burton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The year after the American war for independence ended, we began addressing the issue of Muslim terrorists in North Africa who were attacking American ships and killing and enslaving American seamen.

Congress dispatched John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to negotiate peace. And when they asked the Muslim Ambassador the reason for the unprovoked attacks, he told them that it was written in their Quran that it was their right and duty to make war upon them whenever they could be found.

16 years of negotiations failed and in 1801, America sent its military to crush the terrorists. When that war ended in 1805, the first American edition of the Quran was published, urging Americans to read the Quran to see for themselves that his teachings were incompatible with the safety and peace of non-Muslims. To see the first American Quran and to get more information about America’s first war on Islamic terror, go to


Welcome back WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. We have Voddie Baucham with us. This is an interview that I had with him during Patriot Academy just last week. So, this one is Dr. Voddie Baucham. Here’s Voddie Baucham at Patriot Academy.


The Weather Underground and the Black Panthers and Angela Davis, these people were bombing political buildings and police headquarters and this was an armed revolt and it was a Marxist revolt. And a lot of people sort of forget this, right, that these big riots and everything in the late 1960s were being fueled by the ideologies of the Frankfurt School, okay, and of classical Marxist. A lot of these people were classical Marxist, as well as the cultural Marxist. And so, it was a very turbulent time.

What Happened to the Rioters?

And so, what happened to these people? Did they just disappear and stop bombing things? Well, some of them went to jail, but most of them went to the universities and they became professors, especially in the areas of education, sociology and political science.

And then they created disciplines. James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose and Peter Boghossian have coined this phrase of “Grievance Studies”. And so, you have ethnic studies, queer Studies, feminist studies, women’s studies, African American Studies, Chicano Studies, anything was studies on the end of it, right?




And so, what happened is these all are an outgrowth of that idea of critical theory that sees everything as oppressors and oppressed. Well, who are the oppressed? So, if the oppressor is the white male, heterosexual, cisgendered Christian, able-bodied, that’s the oppression, that’s the hegemonic power, according the cultural Marxism and critical theory.

So, who are the oppressed? Everyone who’s not that. Well, in “Grievance Studies”, all of these new disciplines where they’re giving each other PhDs, right, all of these new disciplines are based on this idea of hegemony and who’s not part of the hegemony.

And schools of education have been infiltrated with this stuff so that now everybody who’s getting a degree in education today, they have an unwritten minor in critical theory and cultural Marxism, because all of their texts are riddled with this stuff.

So, everybody who’s going to government schools today in the United States has been taught by teachers whose philosophy of education has been shaped and framed by critical theory, which was established in the 1970s and 1980s as a direct influence from the radicals of the 60s who went underground into the universities with this long game in mind.

The BLM Riots


So, we’re really just seeing the result. I mean, it’s garbage, garbage out. I mean, it’s literally a formula and now we receipt see the results in the streets with the antifa and BLM riots. Let’s get really, really practical for a second. Because it also not only did they take over the universities, now it’s infiltrating the church, right? I mean, we’re hearing a lot of big name pastors even jumping on some of this stuff and doing the virtue signaling thing, thinking that they’re doing the right thing and they don’t even realize what they’re buying into.

So, help us, you know, at this time in what’s going on in the country, how do we as Christians do the right thing and wanting to treat our fellow man the same and basically, you know, I did a whole episode of Chase American Legend on MLK without Alveda King and the whole idea of content of character, not color of the skin and now all of a sudden, everything I’m reading is color of skin, color of skin, it’s all we’re judging each other based on that now. How do we handle this as Christians? How do we respond to this need to treat each other the same and real pain that’s out there and real problems, but not fall into the Marxist that are using that to totally divide us?


Yeah. We have to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. We have to be men who understand the times. We do. We do. We have to be people who understand the times. We cannot be ignorant of this. And so, one of the things that is happening is there are people out there who are saying, well, we just need to preach the gospel. That’s absolutely true. We just need to preach the gospel. However, there are two problems with a naive version of that phrase.

Problem number one is that it underestimates the gospel and its implications for all of life. Because the same people in this naive way ignored politics because we just need to preach the gospel, right? And do look at the implication of the gospel as it relates to politics. So, we need to understand the broader implications of the gospel for all of you and how we apply, right, these implications of the gospel to all of life. So, that’s naïve…

The Great Commission


Because it’s not just go say so, this is about teaching them to obey my commands. That’s the Great Commission. That’s discipling…


Exactly. Disciple the nations.


Sorry to interrupt you, I don’t want you not miss that second point, but that’s we miss that in the church so much. It’s just…


That’s it. Disciple the nations, okay, so that’s it. But the second area where is naive is, you know, just preach the gospel. Okay. In Acts 17, Paul gives us a beautiful example. What did Paul do in Acts 17? Did he just preach the gospel? Yes, he did. But in the first half of Acts 17, he goes into the synagogue and he reasons with the Jews from the scriptures, verse by verse, line by line, week by week, because that’s where they are.

Then he goes to the Areopagus, he goes to Mars Hill and what does he do? He quotes their poets. He’s not reading the text. He gives them the meta narrative of creation, fall, redemption, consummation. So, he’s just preaching the gospel in both instances. But in both instances, he’s preaching the gospel based on his understanding of people’s worldview.


That’s right.

Critical Theory


And so, we can’t be naïve, number one, in the sense that we ignore the broader implications of the gospel for all of life. And number two, we can’t be naive and that we neglect the need for understanding our times and how it is that the gospel needs to be applied. So, we have to understand critical theory. We have to understand cultural Marxism. We’ve got to. Because it is the air that we breathe today and if we’re ignorant of that, then we won’t be preaching the gospel appropriately.


So powerful, man. Oh, so good. What would you recommend to, you know, we’ve got two audiences right now, our students here at Patriot Academy 16 to 25 and then this is going to air on WallBuilders Live across the country. So, both young people and adults, where do you recommend… I mean, first of all, I’m going to point them to several of your sermons from a year ago, you saw this stuff coming a year ago and we’re speaking against these things, so I’m going to point them to the link.


I’ve actually been speaking against this stuff for nearly 20 years.


That’s right. That’s right. That’s especially more accurate. Yes. Yes. But I want to share those sermons. What else, where should we send them to begin to study something that our education system has not taught?

Alright, timeout, folks. Timeout. We’re going to get Voddie’s answer to that when we come back from the break. Thanks so much for staying with us. It’s WallBuilders Live. This is Dr. Voddie Baucham sharing from Patriot Academy last week. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

One-Room Schoolhouse

Hey friends, this Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about, what in the world could we be studying at home right now you know I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school? Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.

You go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for a One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out [email protected].


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us, we’re in the middle of an interview with Voddie Baucham. We had actually the first part of this yesterday. So, if you want to go online to right now, you can get both parts. But we were in the middle of getting an answer from him when we went to break and I was asking you for good resources for how to recognize this Marxism that’s out there and how to fight back against it. Here’s his answer.

Neil Shenvi


Yeah, I think there are a couple of resources that I find very helpful. One of them is Neil Shenvi. Neil Shenvi is an apologist. Neil Shenviis a PhD, theoretical chemist guy who’s a brilliant chemist, but he’s an apologist and he has done a lot of work in this area and has put a lot of it on his website. Neil Shenvi Apologetics… I can’t remember the exact… But just Neil Shenvi. There’s a lot of stuff there that will be very helpful in getting up to speed very quickly.

And then there’s another guy, he’s an atheist guy, but his name is James Lindsay and James Lindsay has new discourses. And new discourses, he’s working on an encyclopedia, for example of terms. Because one of the things that these people have done, it’s very cultic. They’ve created new terms and they’ve redefined old terms.

So, racism used to mean one thing, now It means another. White supremacy used to mean one thing, now it means another. And so, you’ve got to learn these new terms in order to understand what people are talking about, because this is what’s happening to a lot of churches. They think they know what’s being discussed, right? They think social justice is just justice. Right? It’s just applying biblical justice to the social realm.


\Well, actually, no, it’s not. Social justice is redistributive justice. And they think racism is just the idea of judging people according to their race or mistreating people according to their race. No, no, no, no, no. The very definition of racism today is systemic. So, people who do you believe in systemic racism, they’re saying, do you believe in racism? Because all racism is systemic racism. What does that mean? Does that mean that there are systems like Jim Crow? No, no, no. Systemic racism means any and all disparities between black people and white people…


So, it’s the outcome, not even just the intent?

Voddie :

Yes, absolutely. The intent means nothing. Okay? And so, when you have these new terminologies, so racism is disparate outcomes, social justice is redistributive. So, social justice is based on the new definition of racism and it is about redistributing wealth. And so, Christians hear this and they’re like, well, of course we’re for social justice. Yeah. Well, one of my favorite movies is The Princess Bride. And if you don’t like The Princess Bride, then just, you might not really be a Christian, you know.

But Inigo Montoya, his line, the one guy keeps on going inconceivable, right? And then you Inigo Montoya, at one point goes, you keep on using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. And there’s a lot of that going on with a lot of this terminology. People are using social justice, but they don’t know what they mean. People are using systemic racism, they don’t know what they mean. Right?

Intentional Deception

And so, a lot of Christians are… and by the way, this is intentional. This deception is intentional. Because that’s how you gain power. Right?


Right. Right.


If I determine what the rules are and if I determine what everything means, then you are at my mercy. Right? If I set the rules and I wouldn’t, still sometimes, my kids will be playing a game and they like to make up games. And all of a sudden, they make up a game and one of them is not doing so well at the game and so they’ll go, no, no, no, no, no and they’ll give you a new rule to the game so that they can get advantage, you know. And this is exactly what’s happening right now. And of course, these individuals are in positions of authority within institutions and universities.

And so, you see a lot of these universities that are firing people for being on the wrong side of these issues. And you have the University of Colorado Boulder, who says that aligning with the vision of Black Lives Matter is required for not only students but faculty and staff. Well, the vision of Black Lives Matter according to their own documentation is Marxist, anti-Christian, pro-LGBTQ AI, anti-nuclear family, you know, it’s incredible.

So essentially, the University of Colorado Boulder has said biblical Christianity disqualifies you from being a student or a member of faculty or staff at the University of Colorado Boulder. Yeah. And people are just swallowing it.

And so, you got black athletes at places like the University of Kansas, you know, who are threatening to leave school if a student wasn’t expelled because of a quote that they deemed racist. But at the University of Colorado, apparently, there are no Christian football players, because you got people who are happy to play for them, even though they’re being forced to accept the ideology of an inherently an openly overtly anti-Christian organization called Black Lives Matter.

Changing the Rules


Wow. Oh, man, I got it. I was going to go to a student question and I know it’s getting late. It’s like bedtime there where you are in Africa. If I can get you just a few more, because they have like 100 questions, I’m being unfair to the students, I got to get one of those. But by the way, you just put me back on balance.

Because I’ve been watching this everybody seen the same thing happened but totally different perceptions and thinking, where is our reason and how is this happening? But what you just said a few minutes ago, make sense. They change the rules every day and that’s why. So, as long as I can change the terminology and change what things mean, that’s why we’re coming away with totally different outcomes. Okay, this one…


Especially when the terminology is designed in such a way, what Christian who wants to be racist? Nobody. Right?




What Christian wants to be against justice? Nobody. So, you use terms like social justice and systemic racism and all of a sudden, you’ve created an environment where people have to agree with you or they have to condemn themselves as something they would never want to be identified with.


Now they’re brilliant at it. Okay, this one’s pretty basic, goes back to the first thing we were covering and I think it was asked back then too, but I’ve been ignoring the students and just having a great time with you. So, the question was, “Several families at my church don’t believe in voting, how would you explain our responsibility to vote to those that think we should?”

Voting Freedom


Well, here’s the deal. One of the great things about freedom is that it really is freedom. And so, they have freedom not to vote. You know, there are places where you don’t have freedom not to vote and they tell you who to vote for. Or if you don’t show up, they voted your place. Right.

And so, I think, we need to be careful with that. Because there is a sense in which we can be sort of legalistic about people having to pull the lever and they don’t have to, you know, they’re free not to. I think it’s important that people recognize what voting means and what that stewardship is and that we encourage people to participate and to recognize that the government is, it’s not a democracy, it’s a constitutional representative Republic.

Our founders despised democracy, and they included the dangers of democracy. And so, if I’m a member of a constitutional representative Republic, then I’m either going to be represented by somebody who I participate in choosing or I’m going to be represented by somebody else, but I don’t have a choice as to whether or not I’m represented, you know.


Yeah, and it’s a salt and light thing too, because it’s one of the ways that we do become the preservative and bring out the best flavor in the culture and being that salt is finding Christian leaders and finding people that will represent in that way. And so, if you’re staying home and not doing that, you’re literally hiding that opportunity.

I can’t ask you this, because I’m going to ask it from the students’ perspective, but I’m not sure after your first comments today that I would agree with Glenn Beck on this. But the question was, will you take up Glenn Beck suggestion and move back to the US? And it’s bad as I think we need you here, I am so excited about what you described at the beginning of our interview and what you’re doing to plant seeds there. So, maybe thanks to Zoom, we can have you in both places.

Please Pray


Yeah, you know, and it’s great, before all this COVID stuff, I was coming back four times a year to do a two and a half week tour, do fundraising and things like that as well. And now, I’ve been doing a lot more of this kind of stuff. So, the world has gotten really small. It’s amazing how much I’m able to do in the US even while living here, is kind of the best of both worlds. So, I’m excited about what I have an opportunity to do here, but I’m also excited about the opportunity to invest back there as well.


Well, I’m going to give you an easy last question. One of our representatives asked how we can pray for you. And I want to add to that question, though, all of our students and certainly our WallBuilders Live listeners across the country, Put Voddie on not only your prayer list, but your tithe and offering donation lists because this investment in this country, I am excited about this Voddie.

I mean, I knew in a way obviously, you were planting seeds there, but the way you described, I did not realize the nation itself was so fertile in the political system and all those things. So anyway, I just really want to encourage people, donate, pray, follow what Voddie is doing and when you do start traveling again and coming back, I really want to encourage people to get you to their churches and…


Let me say this. People need to understand this too about what’s happening here. I mean, there’s a reason that we came here. I came here for the first time in 2006. And when I went home, my wife asked me how the trip went? And I told her, I think I want to be buried there. But God is at work here. I am working with a 30 plus year old, indigenous growing church planting reformed Baptist movement here in Zambia.


It is unlike anything going on anywhere else in the developing world. The number of healthy confessional reformed Baptist churches, sound, solid gospel preaching, reformed Baptist church with indigenous leadership. These are Zambians.

So, I came here to partner with Zambians. I didn’t come here to do this as an American. I came here to join hands with some Zambians who are getting this done on the ground. And I put my hand to the plow with these brothers here, there’s a few of us foreigners who are here. But this is an indigenous work that’s going on that we have the privilege of being a part of. And that is incredibly unique in the developing world. I don’t know if anywhere else where something like this is happening.


That’s powerful. Okay, how can we pray for you, brother?


Well, my family and I, you know, we just bought a piece of land here, we’re getting ready to build a house. So, that’s an adventure anytime. But for us in this setting and under these circumstances, yeah, it’s huge, it’s huge. But it’s a really important step for us is something that we need to do at this point and something whether we stay here or not, that’ll be beneficial to us and to the work here. So, pray for us in that.


Well, and I know you get a ton of requests. So, I’ll also be praying for your discernment and wisdom on time and where to do all that. And I can’t thank you enough for giving us… I thought you said your afternoon, your evening and letting us get to you late at night for your time. What a blessing, Voddie. We’ll be following you and helping every way that we can. And thanks for investing in this young people today as well.

Patriot Academy Session: Cultural Marxism, Part 2 – With Voddie Baucham


Absolutely. It’s my pleasure. I really appreciate what you do. And I’m grateful for that the role that you’re playing. I think it’s incredibly important and I really am honored to play this small part of…


Well, unfortunately, I found out today you were born only two years before me. I was going to blame the fact that your beard is so much better than me that you must be older, but only two years older. I don’t think I could get that beard even in two years. Anyway, love you, brother. God bless you, man. We’ll see you soon.


Bless you. Thank you.


Alright, friends. I hope you learned as much as I did in that time with Voddie Baucham. If you haven’t joined us in the middle of the program today, this was a two-part series with Dr. Voddie Baucham speaking of Patriot Academy just last week. Hope that you’ve enjoyed that. If you missed that, first part is available on our website right now,,

And you can share both of those episodes with your friends and family, get them educated on this, the dangers of Marxism in our culture, how they’re using Black Lives Matters and Antifa and the things they’re doing, it’s just got to be exposed and Voddie  is just so good at that. We encourage you to support his ministry as well. Incredible work he’s doing there in Zambia and what a great opportunity to sow the seeds of freedom in that culture. So, we’ve got links today at our website where you can do that. Thanks so much for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.