Persecution of Churches – Good News Friday With Pastor Rob McCoy – Standing in the midst of opposition and persecution, Pastor Rob McCoy is one among many standing for freedom against tyrannical officials. Tune in to hear this riveting interview!
Air Date: 08/14/2020
Guest: Pastor Rob McCoy
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Welcome to WallBuilders Live, the intersection of faith and the culture. Thanks for joining us today. We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders and my name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach.
It’s Good News Friday, but our Good News Friday today is all going to be one topic and one very special guest His name is Rob McCoy, he’s a pastor out in California. You probably seen him in the headlines. David, Tim, we’ve all been to his church. We’ve had him on the program. I don’t know three, four times at least over the last few years. Just a great guy and man, a local government is coming down on him, trying to prevent his church from meeting, even though they’ve been doing it for months and had not a single coronavirus case.
Well, since the end of February, we’ve seen various responses of governments to churches. Initially, many of them were not considered essential services, and so a lot of lawsuits and then said, okay, we got to consider you an essential service. And so, there’s been this attrition against churches, really for several months now. But in California, it has gone to new levels.
And California, is not just that you’re not essential, it’s that, well, we’re going to shut you down. Not only are you not essential, if you have a service, we’re going to find you, you’re looking at jail time. I mean, they’re actually criminalizing and penalizing the attempt to have services. So, this is not what we saw early on with some of the governor’s just kind of said, oops, my bad, I didn’t mean to really go after churches. This is an attempt to go after it.
And so, what Rob McCoy is facing in California is really unprecedented in modern times. I can’t think of any time when we’ve heard of pastors looking at going to jail just for having regular church. I mean, this is kind of new in my memory.
Well, in the midst of this being a ridiculous, unconstitutional attack against the very foundation of the nation, what we were founded on what the founding fathers intended, when people left Europe, coming to America seeking religious freedom, it’s because they were escaping this kind of oppression.
With that being said, one of the things that I think is so special about pastor Rob is he’s somebody who, knowing what he’s facing, knowing that there are so many threats against him, he still has the backbone to stand up and say, you know what, just like Daniel or Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, from the Bible, I’m going to stand up and I’m going to do what’s right and whatever consequences come my way, I’ll deal with it, I’ll handle it. And very much like the three Hebrew children who said, look, our God is able to deliver us, but even if he doesn’t, I’m not bowing down to you. Pastor Rob has been one of those guys in this defining moment to say, I’m going to stand up for what’s right. And my God is capable of delivering me and even if he doesn’t, I’m not bowing down to this false god of this tyranny. And he’s such an important voice right now.
And the church itself, the members coming alongside him, other folks in the community coming alongside him and saying, this just isn’t right. And you’d be surprised some of the people that are coming alongside him that you wouldn’t typically expect. He’s with us when we come back from the break. Stay with us folks pastor Rob McCoy when we return on WallBuilders Live.
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The Reverend James Caldwell was a famous minister during the American war for independence. His sermons taught liberty and God’s opposition to tyranny. The British hated him and tried to kill him. So, for his own protection, he would actually take loaded pistols with him into the pulpit and lay them beside his Bible as he preached.
In the 1780 Battle of Springfield, the Americans ran out of wadding for their guns, which was like having no ammunition. Pastor Caldwell ran inside a nearby church and returned with an arm load of Watts hymnals, the pages of which would provide the much needed wadding. He took this great Bible based hymnal, raised it in the air and shouted to the troops, “Now put watts into them, boys.” This pastors ingenuity, save the day for the Americans.
For more information on pastor James Caldwell and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.
We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks so much for staying with us. So excited to have Rob McCoy with us anytime. I mean, we have him on often. One of the great pastors in America leading the way and man, the government is trying to come down on him in a big way, in California. So thankful for the time, Rob, appreciate you, brother. Thanks for all you’re doing and thanks for taking some time to share with our listeners today.
Well, I got to tell you, Rick, I blame this on you and David Barton, because you guys equipped me to contend with the public square and here I am. So, whatever it stick on me and is because you guys equipped me to be there.
And you notice we’re just hanging out in Texas, we’re not there beside you to help you. We’re just…
That’s not true. You guys have been praying and blessing me.
We have. We have. We’re with you all the way. In fact, our family was with you Sunday morning from our living room and your sermon on Sunday morning was just beautiful. I mean, I think the Holy Spirit spoke to you, man. It was so good. It was so good. scripturally and it was so good historically. I mean, you did that thing that many people can’t do and you weave those together in a way that was just incredibly powerful. So, thanks for defending the American story while at the same time saying to Christians, hey, here’s our call and it was just great. Regardless of what else happens, people need to go to the website and watch your message from Sunday. Man, you stood ball, bro. They told you what, Friday, I guess the court said, no, you can’t meet. We’re shutting you down, even though we’re fine with protests and other things, but we’re shutting you down.
Yeah, exactly. We have three of our five supervisors and it broke down partisan lines, the two republicans voted in opposition to what the others were proposing to seek an emergency temporary restraining order on the church, because we’d been wide open, no social distancing, no mask since May 31. We haven’t had one case of COVID reported in our church, not one. And county is 850,000, the death rate is 1/100th of 1%. And we’ve already tested 15% of our county, so the numbers aren’t going to change.
And so, they have these draconian measures and now they’re saying churches can even meet indoors and you have to meet outside. Well, where are we going to meet? And they know exactly what they’re doing. It’s the 14th amendment where they’re not doing equal application of the law. And because they embrace the BLM riots that burned all of our businesses in LA, 75% of the businesses were Jewish-owned businesses, talk about a hate crime and the governor embraces the riots.
And then they know that don’t have the 14th amendment on their side, so they say, well, churches can meet, but they have do it outside like BLM. Well, no, it just didn’t work that way. And we’ve got ionizer machines. We’ve got UV lights. Nobody is going to get this virus. And the ones that are affected by, we don’t want to kill anybody. And that’s why we broadcast an FM station in the parking lot for our 65 and older folks who have comorbidities. They can be a part of it but in the parking lot, and we have the empirical data, we know what this virus affects. Nobody in their 30 in our county has died and they’ve shut our schools, shuttered our businesses, released convicts into our community and now they’re coming after churches. Give me a break.
Man, I forgot to mention this earlier. So, not only did you give a great scriptural message and historical message, you’re doing more on the science than the scientists are. I mean, you’re pointing to the actual scientific studies, the health officials that are supposed to be looking at the science are the ones playing politics and you’re pointing out all of these stats and all these numbers and all the precautions that the church is taking, it just seems like common sense. And yet, despite all of that, the first Judge you got before last week said, no, you’re going to close the door and we’re going to find every member of the church and misdemeanors and all those things. Your people, man, not just your people, you had people from other churches in town and from across the country, they came in to worship with you Sunday.
Yeah, it was an amazing day. And just real quick to address what you pointed out. You know, the Bible says zeal without knowledge is foolishness. We’ve done 137 live streams every night at seven o’clock since the lockdown started. We’ve educated our congregation. We’ve had no less than seven doctors, two psychologists. We have gone over the county data, the numbers I gave you, I didn’t make those up. Those are the county reported numbers. So, our congregation didn’t make these decisions willy nilly, all 15 of our elders voted for this. And we’ve stepped forward with an educated understanding.
And when churches are closed, there’s a five times greater cases of suicide in the United States. They’re not even looking at the emotional trauma that they’re projecting on our citizenry. So, we did that. And then when we violated the restraining order and I was in contempt, they threaten one to 1,000 those unnamed both congregants and visitors and you got to read the orders just draconian. When we had churches drive two hours to stand in front, so they would take the citation so that our people get choked up before our people could worship. That’s the body of Christ. And we had people out there, one person had sigh said, I’m an atheist and I’m tired of this. And he said, this is converted me, I’m going to church.
No kidding. I love that. It’s in fact, Scarlet sent me a picture of that guy. I think she went over to talk to him and said, you know, is amazing. Now, no, Rob, what you just went through on the science side of things, see, the narrative that the left is pushing to the rest of the country, not just about you, but about any pastor that opens their church right now it’s almost like they want to put you into, these are snake handlers. You know, they’re just crazy people in the mountains that refuse to listen to science at all. That’s the narrative. And yet you have done more study and educated the people in your church more than any health official in the country that I know of. You’re actually looking at the data and bringing and the psychologists, that’s the other part you mentioned. I mean, the damage that’s being done to people at home, the other curve that nobody is watching, that’s the dangerous one. And you even brought attention to that.
And we started those livestream… apparently, we had 100 YouTube subscribers, we’re now well over 7,000, will be 10,000 by the end of the week. We’ve had some live streams event 50,000 views, people tune in every night, a huge percentage are live with us every night and we’ve educated them and people that wouldn’t darkened the doors of a church, we had a gun store owner who was an atheist, who said, you know, you stood with me and this is so critical and he was in tears on Sunday. He was hugging me, it was a profound day.
I’ve watched even like, I mean when you guys were worshiping and that alone was “breaking the law” you’re not supposed to be singing in churches, unbelievable. But I loved what you said, right, but when you said it’s not civil disobedience This is obedience to the Lord. I love that. I’m stealing it by the way, I’m going to use it. But I mean…
It’s all yours.
It’s so good though and then watching your people be able to fellowship and just the smiles on everybody’s faces, like wow, see, that’s what we need. And you said it in the sermon, you mentioned hey, we’re not supposed to forsake the fellowship. And this is obeying the Lord what we’re doing.
It’s a community by community. And we had scheduled to have this really wonderful family of young kids that are all amazingly gifted with stringed instruments, cello, violin, and when they lead worship, the place is captivated. They go all over the country. We had them all scheduled, well, we didn’t want them getting the citation. So, at the 11th hour, we told them, let’s have you guys stand back. We don’t want you to get in trouble. And we didn’t have the band ready because we were trying to deal with the crowd, so we put one guy with a guitar up there. And in 30 years ministry and I’ve been walk with a little over 30 years, I’ve never been in more profound worship than that day and you didn’t even need the guitar, the place was erupting with joy.
We saw that, man, we were worshiping with you from our living room and we could feel it even all the way here in Texas. So, Rob, what is next? I mean, it sounds like and from everything I’m reading and watching, I mean, the people in the community, maybe not the politicians, but the people in the community are with you. And I heard even the sheriff is saying he’s not going to enforce these orders to side everybody. So, what is their next move? Well, I guess you had another hearing on a different Judge, how did that go?
Yeah, so today was the hearing to set up what the county wanted a contempt hearing so that I can be fined or jailed or whatever it is they want it to pursue and they…
No, you got notice that on your birthday, by the way. I saw that in your live stream. Yeah, happy birthday, bro.
Thanks. I couldn’t think of a better gift than to defend liberty on my birthday.
I love it.
Yeah. So, they wanted to beef up the order. So, the county wanted to demand that armed deputies had the power and are forced to take whatever means necessary to shut the church down. And they put that order forward. We had a hearing, the Judge dismissed the county’s request for arm deputies. He said that’s not their role. They said, well, we want the church shut, so we want the contempt hearing by Friday. He said no, we’re going to give the defendants time to prepare their case, we’ll postpone until next week. So, I’m not going to jail this week, maybe next. But at least the judge is reasonable. We listened to both cases and our attorney Robert Tyler, I got to tell you, that guy hit the ball so far out of the park, it’s still going. He is remarkable guy.
Nice. Oh, you know and I appreciate your joy in the midst of this storm and what’s happening in the way they’re coming after you. And some of our listeners may not know, I mean, last time we had you on, you were still in office, you resigned office to take on this fight, to try to not have that conflict with the political realm. And so I mean, you gave that up and said, look, this is where the Lord’s calling me to fight at this time and stand with the church.
So, the things that you’ve been through with all of this and your church has been through, and I remember when you all first started, I mean, man, you had even just to do communion, you set the place up where you could have like six people in the whole building and everybody take their turns, and you all have taken every precaution possible and yet here they keep coming after you. But I mean, you got to feel like there’s just Angel surrounding you and in the prayer that’s being lifted up around the entire country with the eyes on Ventura County right now, but lifting you up in the midst of all this,
Rick, I don’t want to dismiss or diminish the power that prayer, people say that sometimes in a trite manner. I can’t tell you how profound it is, because we had no idea it was going to be a circus on Sunday. And all I knew is our little church of 400 on a good Sunday was going to have a service and we didn’t know how many people we had prepared. We had 2,500 people in door, we had to turn them away because of fire codes and we had thousands outside. And we had 20,000 people tune in on the live stream. And there wasn’t an incident with the exception of a couple of protesters and the only ticket that was given was to one of the empty foot folks for disorderly conduct. And the day went without any issue and media and everything else and it was all because of prayer. And I had a piece I can’t even describe to you and I just want to say thank you to everybody, it’s such a blessing.
Well, and one of the cool things is coming out of this as you mentioned in the live streams and the number of people watching and I’m not saying this because you’re on the show. I mean, I’m not kidding your message, and I didn’t watch all three service, I only watch the nine o’clock service. I’m assuming you said pretty much the same thing. But I could just tell the Lord was on you and it was such a good balance of being a citizen of heaven and a citizen of earth at the same time.
And so, God’s using the platform that has been created by the enemy coming after you to educate the church. And I think pastors all over the country, are going to be emboldened by you and what you’re doing, they’re going to be encouraged. Congregants are going to be asking their pastors, why aren’t we standing? Why aren’t we opening? What would be your message to pastors? And you address this a little bit in terms of your local pastors and I thought that was incredible the way that you address that with the folks that were there from other churches. But what would you say to pastors across the country right now during all this?
Well, I’m going to say two things. First, I want to speak to the congregants. You know, the body of Christ is the bride of Christ, the churches and when we bash the church, we’re bashing the bride of Christ. And if you say some about my wife, Michelle bad, you’ll be picking up your teeth with your broken arm. And we do get frustrated with the bride of Christ, because it’s filled with people like you and me and we make mistakes.
And these pastors are good men and they’re trying to do their best and we’ve never been through these waters before. They’re trying to figure it out. And we’re all inundated with false information and they paralyze us by fear. And then you have public opinion, and they’re just looking for someone to show them what to do. And once they see that the lion has no teeth and the lion folds like a cheap suit, then they’re going to rise up, I believe this and these are my brothers, they’re my friends. And they may not be doing what I’m doing, but every one of them was at the prayer meeting the night before and they were with us that day. And they’re not called to be the tip of the spear. But what they’re saying is Rob, I may not be able to do what you do, but I’m grateful for what you do. And I believe that to be true for all pastors. I love hopes all things.
So, to the congregants out there if you’re going to another church that’s open, go there, get set but when it’s time, go home and strengthen that pastor, because they’re all overwhelmed and they’re going to learn and they’re going to come out of this stronger. Stand with the body of Christ. Encourage them. And pastors, nothing to be afraid of. What’s the worst that they can do to you? I mean, if they threaten you with death, hey, that’s a ticket to heaven. And I’ve already given away everything. And the Apostle Paul said, if there be no resurrection, I’d be of all men most pitied. I got to tell you, I’ve never enjoyed being a Christian more than right now, because God’s more real to me than he’s ever been. I realized now that nothing matters, but him. And I’m not doing this for me. I’m doing it for my kids and my grandkids because liberty is critical. And it’s not man’s idea, it’s God’s idea. And Jesus said, you’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free. He’s the author of liberty.
Amen. Oh, wow, Godspeak.com for all the listeners out there. That’s where you can go to watch the sermons. Also, the live streams, right? Is it easier to just go there or go to your YouTube page?
No, they’re all located there. Just go to the website and you’ll find the link to the live streams, but you know what, you noticed this on Sunday and I’ve been in ministry 20 years, I’ve never passed an offering back and I never asked for done and I never will, I never will. And that’s not to criticize any pastors who do, that’s my life, that’s how I operate. But I will say the attorneys Tyler in Birch, they’re doing this pro bono and they won’t ask for dime, but I’m going to ask on their behalf. If you want to help them, because this is for all of us, isn’t my fight, it’s our fight. Go to faith-freedom.com, help those folks out. Don’t send us anything, send it to them. faith-freedom.com And I had to beg them to take some money from us, they just said Rob we want to serve you and I know what it’s costing them, they’re precious. Robert Tyler’s, he’s a pitbull for Jesus.
Faith-freedom.com. In fact, we’ve had some of them on the radio program before. So thankful for attorneys that God uses to defend us these fights as well. It’s a big, big deal. So, Godspeed.com for Rob’s churches website, that’s where you can watch the services and the youth. And by the way, I mean goodness, you got a star-studded fireside chat, by the way. I mean, David Harris, the other night, you’ve had all kinds of folks on there, some nights you dug out of the bottom of the barrel and had Barton and me, but you know, on nights, you had, no, seriously…
You guys said huge followings on that. We had Eric Metaxas and Charlie [crosstalk 20:27] But you guys were killing it. You’re awesome. Love you guys.
You’re blessing, bro and what a great example. And we love you. We’re going to keep praying. We’re going to keep lifting you up. And we will send the websites, both for your website and then for the family advocates. And, man, just let us know if you would keep us posted on how things go and we’d love to get you back on in a couple of weeks whenever it’s good for you.
Rick, you need anything, you say jump, I’ll say hello. Hi. God bless you, brother.
You too, man. Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
Hey friends, this Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about, what in the world could we be studying at home right now you know I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school? Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.
You go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for a One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out firstname.lastname@example.org.
We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to patch Rob McCoy. Interview after interview and he was gracious enough to stay with us and do a quick interview. David, Tim, I love his joy. I mean, he’s right in the middle of a storm and has joy and I mean, just a great example of pastors all over the country.
Yeah, he really reminded me of Paul and Silas, when they’re sharing the gospel, they get sent to prison for sharing the gospel. And they get to prison and so what do they do? Well, they’re just going to have a praise and worship service in prison. He definitely seems like you know what, whatever comes, we’re just giving God the glory. We’re just going to do this thing and whatever happens is going to happen. And I love the fact, Rick, that he pointed out that yeah, and I guess he started saying that you guys are kind of the reason I’m in this mess in the first place. You’re like, oh, man, I’m so sorry for you. However, I’m not really that sorry, because I’m so proud to stand shoulder and shoulder with this guy who’s standing up, not just for things that we recognize as being tyrannical, but standing up against a certain kind of tyranny that is oppressing religious freedom or religious people, the people of God who want to worship God according to the dictates of their own conscience. The very principles our nation was founded on, he’s standing up saying, we’re not going to lose those things in America. It’s crazy we have to have this fight. But man, are we proud to stand up with a guy like pastor Rob McCoy.
You know, we’ve talked about in previous programs to how the country really is hungry for leadership and courage. That’s what they want to see. And I was really struck with the fact that now that he’s showing it, how many people are running to him and rallying to him. I mean, the fact that all these other churches showed up and said, hey, we’ll take the first thousand tickets, is that you guys don’t get it. That’s great. You know, look at all these people running to him. And then there’s this atheist guy who gets converted and another atheist gun owner who shows up at the church that says I am standing with you. It’s just like, this is what people are hungry for is some leadership and some courage.
And this is one of the things that you also see outlined in the Bible, where it’s supposed to be our behavior, our attitude that makes it evident to all who’s we are and who we are serving. And when even the atheists are going, you know what, you supported me, which already says something, right, that he is going to support people based on constitutional rights, based on his religious conviction, he is supporting people, not coercing them to believe what he believes necessarily, freedom of choice, but he is going to support them as individuals following their constitutional rights. And they said, man, you support me, I want to stand with you now.
It speaks a lot to his character, to his attitude, his behavior, when he is largely being embraced by so many people. And Rick, as you mentioned, even going into the interview, some of the allies he has are not people you would always expect. And dad, as you pointed out, so many people are just looking for someone who will stand up. We have so many people who want to stand up and they’re not always sure how to do it and so, when somebody else stands up and says, okay, well, I know I can at least support this person, I know I can do something for him.
And he talked about how many people viewed the online service. Rick, right, you and your family watching this and how the worship was so real. In these moments of persecution and challenging and tough times, it’s often true that God, his presence is revealed to us in the greatest ways, that we know we’re not alone. And in the midst of what’s going on, Pastor Rob said, man, prayer has been so evident right now, I feel it. It’s real. It’s something that’s genuine. Right. I would encourage everybody listening right now, continue to pray for pastor Rob and there’s many other pastors out there who are battling this, who are standing up who are dealing with this nonsense, pray for them. And then if you want to financially support them or support the law firm that’s representing them pro bono, and this is where we have so many of our legal friends who are doing this. But now more than ever, this fight is real and relevant and we need to pray and probably need to do something financially to help support this cause.
Amen. And we’ve been asking for leaders like this, right? We talked about on the program all the time, you know, where are the Daniels? Where are the leaders that will stand up? And so, here we have one of many, there’s a lot of others that were hearing about as well. But I mean, this is a great example to be putting in front of churches. And so, we need to ask everybody out there, let your friends and family know about it, share this program with them, go to the links at the website today. Donate to that law firm. And you know, Rob said, I’m not asking for you to donate us, but hey, make a donation to that church. Let them know we appreciate them standing up and give them the funds they need to be able to continue in this battle. What a great opportunity.
So, glad Rob could join us today, so thankful that you joined us today. More is available for you at our website wallbuilderslive.com Thanks for listening to WallBuilders Live.