Making a Difference By Learning True History With David Barton, Part Two – At the ProFamily Legislators Conference: How have socialism and Marxism gained such a foothold in our society? If you go to college to be a history major, what do you learn? What are states opting NOT to teach anymore in history class? Are there any problems in America bigger than racism? What harmful language is in our founding documents? Tune in to hear this surprising message from David Barton at the ProFamily Legislators Conference!

Air Date: 12/28/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, we are taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. David Barton is America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders.

Normally, the three of us carrying on a conversation and having an interview with somebody. But today, we’re going to take you out to the ProFamily Legislators Conference, we’re going to pick up right where we left off yesterday. David is actually presenting to these legislators. 

If you’re not familiar with our conference, we bring in state reps and senators from across the country once a year to Dallas. In November, they get a chance to interact with each other to sharpen each other’s countenance by having that iron sharpening iron take place and they get to hear from a ton of fantastic speakers.

As many as we can we bring to you here on WallBuilders Live. So you can go back into the archives at the website right now today at wallbuilderslive.com. And you can listen to Mike Johnson, June Hunt, Kelly Shackleford, George Barna, Rabbi Lapin this week, David Barton, next week, we’re going to have Bob McEwen. 

I mean, it’s a lot of good material, and all of it available at the website. So check that out at wallbuilderslive.com. For now, let’s pick up where we left off yesterday, David Barton speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference.

ProFamily Legislators Conference

David:

What you get us deconstruction. We’re going to tell you how bad America is by leaving out all the things that you should know about America. So this is part of what’s going on. How bad is it? Well, the American College of Trustees and Alumni, which represents the college boards, the region boards, alumni boards, all these different boards, every year, they look to see how our colleges handling different topics. And they decided let’s look at the history majors.

If you go to college to be a history major, what happens while you’re there? And they choose to look only at that year’s listing of US News & World Report elite colleges and universities in America. So that particular year, there were 74 elite colleges and universities in America. They call the study ‘America’s Past Passed Over’. And what they found was they said if you go to the 74 elite, US News & World Report, if you go to the 74 universities to get a history degree, at 62 of the 74 universities you will not have a single course in American history, not one. So you go to get a history. What do you do with the history you get? Well, you go back and become a history teacher at a high school, you become a curriculum director, except you haven’t had a single course on American history.

So this is what’s happening in colleges, and universities. And this is why you see things like at George Washington University, they removed US history courses for history majors. That’s one of those elite universities. And then you have other universities that said, well, we won’t even have that problem because we’re not even going to offer a history course. For example, University of Wisconsin dropped 13 majors, including history. So even if you want to study history, it’s not available to you.

32 colleges and universities in California have dropped history as a major. You can’t even take it as a major if you want to. You can’t go learn about American history. So that’s off the table. It’s interesting too that right now, the study came out about a few months ago, it says we now have more diversity professors than we have history professors at universities across the nation. So we’re more into teaching diversity intersectionality all the stuff we’re fighting right now. Why not? This is what we’ve been teaching. There’s more of this being taught than there is anything related to history or America, anything that will show you that history and tradition of America.

This is the American history standards. As you guys know, your states are all different. But the states will have some type of standard process. In Texas, every 10 to 14 years, depending on the course we come up with new standards. Other states, Minnesota, it’s every 10 years, they pass the new standards. Some states pass it through the legislature. Some states pass it through their education department. Some states pass it through agencies. Oklahoma has their superintendent public education. So that’s the one that comes up with a standard. Whatever it is, it’s interesting.

But this year, the number of states that passed, and Minnesota is a good example. This year, when they passed their history standards, they said alright, here’s what we’re not going to teach anymore. And for example, Minnesota and several other states, I’m just using Minnesota’s example, they said for the next 10 years, we’re not going to teach the American Revolution, or the Civil War, or World War I or World War II, or the Holocaust. All that goes. We’ve seen that in several states this year.

So we’re taking this stuff out, which makes it so much easier to teach that we were something that we never work because we don’t know what we were because we haven’t studied this stuff. So as you look at what this is, this is why you see such a quick rise of socialism and Marxism and communism. This stuff is taken off in a way that we can’t blight.

How did it get footing? So it got footing because we haven’t been teaching the rest of the story for 30 years now. You go back to Howard Zinn in the 1980s, this is what the academy was doing back then, this is where professors learnt is America’s the worst nation in the world. Man, we really need to be ashamed of America. And so we taught all the bad and the ugly and none of the good. And this is how we’ve gotten this point so fast.

Now all of these groups they’re in the critical race theory right now. If you know Marxist philosophy, you teach critical theory of some type. And over the last 60-80 years, they’ve tried all sorts of things. They tried class warfare, the rich against the poor. That didn’t really work in America, because upward mobility is so easy in America, you can move out of poverty into being a business owner pretty quick. So that didn’t really work.

They taught it between groups, and they finally came to the race issue. And that’s the one that caught all the other ways that they’ve taught. Because in critical theory, you have to have two groups fighting each other. Their belief is you always have to have the oppressed and the oppressor, and it can be different. And they don’t care who it is. 

You just got to have a fight going on. And so what is working right now is race. That’s what everybody… Because nobody wants to be a racist. Nobody wants to see racism. And we all oppose it. And so maybe there’s something I didn’t recognize.

Maybe has been racist and didn’t recognize it. So we’re sympathetic to that and it caught on particularly because we didn’t our own history, our own race issue. Where’s the battle on that as we’re all in World War II history.

Rick:

Quick break, folks, we’ll be right back. You’re listening to David Barton speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

AMERICA’S HISTORY

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. In several decisions over recent years, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled that it is unconstitutional for the government to encourage religion. Did our Founding Fathers agree with this? Consider the words of Henry Lawrence, a signer of the Constitution and a president of Congress, Henry Lawrence declared, “I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue, and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality.”

Founding Father, Henry Lawrence believed that the goals of the Constitution could not be fulfilled, apart from a fear and respect for God, and that it was therefore the duty of government to encourage this among the people.

For more information on God’s hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1808REBUILD.

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live, had to take a quick break. We’re going to jump right back in with David Barton speaking of ProFamily Legislators Conference.

ProFamily Legislators Conference

David:

Yes, there’s bad and ugly in America. And we can probably tell you more of the bad and the ugly and the 1619 project, or CRT can tell you, but we can also tell you the good which you’ll never hear from the other side. And so when you look at what’s happening with this, these guys, there’s so many activist groups that are picked up and run with this. And of course, the thing they all agree on is you need rioting, rebellion, radicalization. That’s hallmarks of anything that’s Marxist or socialist or communist. It has those elements all the time. So, CRT has been there.

CRT is something that we throw around a lot, very few people can put a definition on. So let me give you a definition, I think, is very good. The Federalist Society came up with this, it’s a great definition, it fits CRT, fits 1619, fits all of it. And it says very simply, it takes as a starting point that America was founded to protect and preserve slavery. 

Now, they’re taking the position that our founding was for slavery, which maybe, maybe with a stretch of the imagination, if you hold your mouth just right and lean the right direction, you can say Jamestown. But they weren’t founded for that. They had slavery. There slavery came in later. That’s not why they were founded.

But you sure can’t say that with the Pilgrims or the Puritans or the New Haven colony or the Connecticut Colony or the other. You got to ignore every northern colony and pick on Virginia and say we were founded… 

No, that that’s not true. And I mean, that is part of what happened. But that wasn’t why any of the colonies were founded, not even Virginia. But takes as a starting point that America was founded to protect and preserve slavery, and that the American constitutional system is the source of our society’s ills. And the foremost of those ills is racism. So there is no problem in America bigger than racism.

Now, where did racism come from? It came from our constitutional system. So if you want to get rid of racism, you’re going to have to get rid of that constitutional system. See, this is what their objective is: they need the system gone, we got to have a fundamental change. And right now race is the thing that will do it. And if you want racism gone, and it could have been any other thing, 30 years ago if you want whatever gone, you got to get rid of the constitutional system. It’s just that race is the one that they point to now.

So when you look at this, this is where we saw even four weeks ago, now they’ve recently changed this. But four weeks ago, this is where the National Archives who houses the Declaration and the Constitution came up with warning language that this is harmful language in these documents. What harmful language are we talking about in the Declaration? 

Maybe the harmful language that says all men are created equal. Is that? Because that’s the race language in the Declaration, is that the harm? Now you just need not to read it. Oh, it’s so bad, you shouldn’t read it.

So we’ve got a warning label up so you won’t even read it because if you read it, you won’t find that harmful language they’re talking about. If you read the Constitution, are you talking about the 13th Amendment that end slavery or maybe the 14th Amendment that gave full equal rights or the 15th Amendment gave full voting rights? Is that the harmful? No, just don’t read it. It’s got bad, just don’t read it.

And so we’re into this thing of don’t even look at the documents. Trust us, we’re professionals, we’re just telling you, it’s really… Now, apparently, they’ve taken this down under pressure in the last few days. But nonetheless, that’s where they’re headed. So just to put a little perspective on it before I head in what I’m going to show you going on across the nation, and I think is very good news to all this negative stuff.

America, we just, so few people understand how blessed we have been, and how thankful we should be for what we have. Even with all the warts in our nose, we’ve got less warts in our nose than any other nation in the world. And we got plenty of warts in our nose, but like none other nation. If you look at where we are among the nations in the world, 193 nations, we had our Constitution and went into effect in 1789. That’s the only Constitution we’ve ever had.

If you will look at the other nations in the world and look at how many constitutions they’ve had in the same period of time we’ve had one, imagine being in any other nation. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re an enemy or an ally. You can be an enemy of America, or you can be one of our great allies. Look how often the turnover is, and all these other nations. Can you imagine living in a nation with that kind of turmoil and instability?

See, somehow we think that all nations are like America, and we can choose what Sweden got, or we can choose with France or Spain. We can choose anybody else and we’ll be just the same. No, not only we don’t know American history, well, we don’t know world history. It’s unique. Because when you look at the rest of the world, do you know what the average length of the Constitution history of the world is?

Cornell Law School went back and studied this, 1500 years recorded history, thousands of nations, the average length of a Constitution in history of the world is 17 years. So we celebrated 234 years this year on Constitution Day. I kind of like not having a revolutionary or a new constitution every 17 years. 

And by the way, put in perspective, a typical nation averages a violent revolution every generation and a new constitution every 17 years. We’ve had one violent revolution. We’ve had a civil war. So maybe you can say two. So, we’ve had two in 234 years, and yet everybody else averages one every generation 20-30 years, a new Constitution every 17. We’re different from everybody else.

This is where we get the term American exceptionalism. By the way, when you look at creativity, you see the same thing. Creativity, America’s 4% of the world’s population, which means 4% of the world’s population should produce 4% of the world’s whatever. But when you look at our population, you can measure creativity a lot of ways, copyright, patent protection, you name it. 

But whether you take and look at what we do medically or what we do with space technology, or what we do with entertainment, or what we do with science, or you take anything, our 4% has out-produced the other 96% of the world.

We are so far advanced in our technology that we just assume everybody’s got what we got. It’s just not the case. I have two kids right now, active duty in military service. And I get asked to do a lot of military bases, do trainings in those bases. So, I was asked to go to bases in Germany, I think there’s 26 or 27 bases. I was over there doing military bases in Germany, and it was really cool. They put me up in a five-star German Hotel.

Now, I’m a cowboy from Texas. So I’m used to really simple stuff and I like simple stuff. But I got to admit that all the castles and all that stuff that’s thousands of years old and all that old world elegance was pretty cool. I’d walk inside that five-star hotel, I’d walk in and say, Mr. Park, welcome back, can we get you anything? They call me by name. Everybody called me by the name. It was just really impressive. And that five-star hotel would have been a whole lot more impressive if they would have had internet in that five-star hotel.

Now I’ll point out even Motel Six in America has internet everywhere. We take what we’ve got for granted, as if everybody else has gotten. It’s just not the case the same thing. When you look at our prosperity, 4% of the world’s population, we produce 25% of the world’s gross domestic product. Again, being from the rural part of the world, the agricultural community in agriculture, America is number 66 in the world in percentage of farmable land. 

We’re number 66 and yet, we’re number two in the world in agricultural output. So we don’t have greater natural resources than most nations. We just take what we have and make it go a whole lot further than anybody else. And that’s something unique about America.

So when you look at all this, this is where we get the term American exceptionalism. American exceptionalism was given us in 1831 by a guy named Alexis de Tocqueville who came to America wrote the book ‘Democracy in America’. He said the condition in Americans is quite exceptional. I don’t think any other free people will be able to achieve what they’ve done.

So since then, it’s been said that America is the exception, not the rule. American exceptionalism was not bragging and saying, oh, we’re so special, we’re so different, we’re better than you are. It is simply saying we’re the exception, not the rule.

Rick:

We got to take another quick break. When we come back, we’ll get David Barton back at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

THE AMERICAN STORY

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And yet what we see through history, and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. 

The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to wallbuilders.com and check out The American Story.

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. You’re listening to David Barton present at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. Let’s jump right back in where we left off before the break.

ProFamily Legislators Conference

David:

When it comes to stability, we’re the exception, not the rule. When it comes to productivity, when it comes to prosperity, when it comes to anything else, we’re the exception, not the rule. So a good question to ask is where did this come from? Because we are different from every other nation. And again, we’re so bad on history, both American history and world history, we don’t know that. We just assume everything works all the time, whatever we try is going to work.

And you look the leaders responsible, invariably, we would go to political leaders, we’ll say, well, and you got to go back to Founding Fathers like George Washington, and Founding Fathers like John Hancock and John Adams, these are the guys who came up with great ideas. And that’s a fair thing to say, no question. They had a huge impact. But it’s interesting to me that John Adams, for example, who is one of the Founders, the Founders, you need to understand they were really into writing things down. I mean, it’s just unbelievable how much they wrote down.

You’ll see tomorrow night part of a collection of 160,000 artifacts and items, they go back in the founding era, we just obtain the largest pilgrim century collection of any institution in America. We just got 1,000 items out of the pilgrim era and what they did and what happened that era and what the message who’s calling he was able to do. So we’ve got all these old documents, all these artifacts.

And as you look through that, you find these guys writers. That’s why George Washington has nearly 100 volumes of writings. Ben Franklin has nearly 60 volumes of writings. Jefferson has 80 volumes. Madison has 80 volumes. Hamilton has 40 volumes. These guys wrote everything down. And so it’s interesting that as you look at this, you go back to 1816, and a young man named Hezekiah Niles, he was a millennial, that generation, if you will. He had not been part of the American Revolution. He wasn’t around for. But he is around 40 years later, and he’s liking what America has become. And he is doing a history book.

In 1860, he contacted John Adams, said I’m doing a history book on the American Revolution. We really like what America has become. I wasn’t there at the time. You were. You’re an eyewitness. You’re also a major participant what went on. Would you tell me who you think is responsible for what we’d become in America? Who would you point to as the great thought leaders that help us achieve what we are?

And so here’s old man Adams, 40 years after the revolution looking back and say, well, if you want to know who’s responsible for what America has become, he said, you need to start with the Reverend Dr. Samuel Cooper. And of course, there’s the Reverend Jonathan Mayhew. And of course, you’ve got the Reverend George Whitfield, and you get the Reverend Charles Johnson, you start going through and listing preachers.  

Now, we might know something about Whitfield today, but probably most of us never heard Cooper, Mayhew or Johnson. And by the way, we don’t study preachers a day, whether they’re white or whether they’re black. I mean, who in the world is Richard Allen or Absalom Jones or John Moran or Lemuel Haynes or Harry… We don’t know. But these were all significant. How significant were they? Well, let me take somebody like Harry Hoosier.

Harry Hoosier was part of the Great Awakenings. And Harry Hoosier, back in his day, now we can think of people from the Great Awakening, it’s like George Whitfield or like John and Charles Wesley or like Francis Asbury, guys like this, they had massive crowds. They would draw tens of thousands, cover acres and acres and acres of land. And yet, Francis Asbury said well, Harry draws larger crowds than I do. Really? Harry Hoosier, black evangelist is got bigger crowds than the big name guys?

And then Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, he said, I’ve heard Harry preach, he said he’s the greatest orator I’ve ever heard. Wait a minute. You’re a Founding Father, you signed the Declaration, ratified… You’re running around with guys like Patrick Henry, who’s considered a great author and you’re telling Harry Hoosier is a better order than Patrick Henry? Yeah, that’s what I’m telling you.

We don’t know much about the guy. But what he did was he preached particularly to the blue collar guys of America, they seem to be drawn to him. And so his crowds you would have a lot of tough, rough, and tumble kind of guys, the frontiersman, the woodsman, the trappers, those guys that are pioneers, and he preached along the east coast. 

But what happened was as America expanded, a lot of these guys that have been converted under his ministry, and when they got converted and got saved, their behavior change, their language change, everything about them change. Well, as America starts going west, the guys starts going west with America.

And so by the time you get to about 1806, or 1807, America’s expanded pretty far, and these trappers converted by Harry Hoosier, they go. And the other trappers and explorers look and say, man, these guys they’re really strange. There’s something different about them. What’s the deal with them? And the answer was there are a bunch of those Hoosiers.

Now you should associate the word Hoosier with that part of the country because that’s the Indiana territory. Indiana territory, we call the Hoosier State, and I wonder how many people in Indiana know that they were named after Black evangelist? Probably very few.

You might seem that if you have a state named after a guy, and by the way, the various state websites in Indiana say, well, there could have been some other things that… I mean, Harry Hoosier, he’s the only guy with that name and he did have a huge impact out here and his people came. 

But there was also a bar fight that happened one time where the guys got in a bar fight. And after this really rough bar fight was over, there was an ear laying on the ground that somebody bit off. And somebody picked up the ear and said, whose ear? And that’s where we got the nickname. Really!

You get to tell me you got a guy with a name and a guy who influenced the state, and a guy whose disciples influence the state, and you’re going to go with the bar? So they’ve got seven or eight other options because this is just not the one everybody wants to go with. You don’t use a preacher. But this is the kind of stuff we had at that point in time back there.

So as you look at what happened, John Adams, why would he point to these preachers? It’s interesting, historians have documented that every single right set forth in the Declaration of Independence had been preached from the American pulpit prior to 1763. So the Declaration of Independence literally was a listing of sermon topics we’ve been hearing for the last 15 years before the American Revolution. I mean, that’s how much faith affected who we were.

And this is from the guys who were there. This is not me making this stuff up years later. This is just going back to their writings, going back to what they said and what they did. 

So as you look at it, John Adams talks about how our pulpits thundered. And I can show you tons of sermons. We have thousands of these old sermons. We have 267 posted on the website. They talk about every conceivable issue you can think of. They had a biblical worldview in a way that’s hard for us to imagine.

I’m going to cover some of the things they talked about, that the Bible talks about that would shock us today. But it’s, again, biblical worldview. So they addressed biblical relevancy. They just showed people the Bible applies to every aspect of life. And this is a tough thing for us today. Because when you say how about today? 

How relevant is the Bible day? Well, if you look at all these issues popping up on the screen, I chose every one of these topics because they’ve all been in the news in the past 24 months, and because the Bible specifically addresses this. But you say wait a minute, Bible didn’t say anything about the capital gains tax, the progressive income tax with the capitation taxes. Yes, it does.

Rick:

Alright, friends, one more break today. You’ve been listening to David Barton speak at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. Give us just a second, we’ll be right back for the conclusion today of today’s part of the presentation, and then tomorrow. See, I get confused on this because there’s so many programs. Anyway, today, we’re going to have one more segment with David Barton speaking of the ProFamily Legislators Conference. And then tomorrow, we’ll get the final conclusion of that entire presentation. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

AMERICA’S HISTORY

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. In the case Lee versus Wiseman, the Supreme Court ruled that for an adult to mention the word God at a public graduation constituted both psychological and religious coercion against the students. Yet consider the actions of William Samuel Johnson, a signer of the Constitution and one of America’s leading educators who served as the first president of Columbia College.

At his graduation exercises, William Samuel Johnson declared to the students, “You this day have received a public education, the purpose we’re up has been to qualify you better to serve your Creator and your country. Your first grade duties you’re sensible are those you owe to heaven, to your Creator, and Redeemer.” Founding Father William Samuel Johnson believed that a public graduation was an appropriate setting to remind students of the duties which they owed God.

For more information on God’s hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1808REBUILD.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us through the break. Here’s the conclusion for today of David Barton speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. And then tomorrow, we’ll get the final segment of this amazing presentation. You can get all of these at our website wallbuilderslive.com. Let’s jump right back in where we left off with David

ProFamily Legislators Conference

David:

…talks about all the different types of taxes and which types are good and which types are bad and why progressive income tax is wrong and why capitation tax is okay. All this is covered biblically, but we really don’t know that. So what we find is most Christians today don’t even know the biblical economic principles, the biblical foreign immigration principles, or anything else.

Learning History With David Barton, Part Two – At the ProFamily Legislators Conference

I mean, you got to remember that God took a nation of slaves, Israel, they’ve in slavery for 400 years. If you’ve been in slavery for 400 years, guess what? You think like a slave. You act like a slave. You behave like a slave. And on top of that, you’ve been an Egyptian slave, so you also think like an Egyptian as well as a slave. And none of that’s the way God wants you to think.

So when God gets these guys out in the wilderness after saving them and getting them out of Egypt, he’s got him out. And He says, okay, you guys, you don’t understand any of this stuff so I’m going to give it to you really straight. He gives them 613 laws. Based on those 613 laws, they go from being a nation of slaves to being the number one premier nation in the ancient world. 

They were greater than everyone in science and government and everything. How that happen, because the 613 laws cover everything you can think of, from immigration to criminal justice, to due process rights, to the unborn protection, and the unborn covered multiple times in the 613 law, so much stuff that was covered back then. So God does cover all those issues.

Now, all that being said, we also do a lot of work with George Barna. And George in doing polling finds that only 2.8% of pastors in America are willing to address issues that are in the news from the pulpit. We lack of biblical relevancy. 

Very few people can address the Bible to what’s going on in the culture, which is one of the reasons we’re seeing a downturn in Christianity in America. 20 years ago, in 2000, 85% of Americans profess to be Christians. Today, it’s down to 65% and it’s still plummeting. Now in polling people who left the church and you say, why did you leave the church? Two out of three said it’s because the church lacks relevancy.

Rick:

Alright, friends, that’s it for today. Tomorrow, we will hear from David again at the ProFamily Legislators Conference and then get the conclusion on Thursday, and then of course, have a Good News Friday for you to wrap up the week. Thanks for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.