Restoring America By Restoring Biblical Values- Bringing The Bible To Life: We believe that the restoration of the country depends on the restoration of Biblical values. How many Christians actually know or read their Bible? We need citizens to fall in love with God’s word again and to apply it to their life. How do we inspire people to do that? Tune in now to find out! 

Air Date: 09/02/2019

Guest: Chad Hovind

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always doing that from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective. All those things from a biblical historical and constitutional perspective.

You can find out more about us at WallBuilders Live.com that’s our radio site where you can find out about David Barton. America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Tim Barton, our co-host. He’s a national speaker and pastor and president at WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can also go to WallBuilders.com for a wealth of information. Lots of great tools available to you and your family to take action right there in your community to help restore America’s Constitution. 

Donate To WallBuilders

I would encourage you while you’re there at our websites to look at that donate button because that’s how this program is able to air across the country and around the world. Encouraging people to live out their freedom equipping them and inspiring them by giving them the tools they need to do exactly that. 

You’re part of that team when you donate to WallBuilders Live. It is a listener support program. You the listener that is supporting this very process for us to be able to bring these great interviews throughout the week. 

The Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs where we dive into those foundational principles that made America great. Our Good News Friday programs where we lift everybody up with the victories that are happening across the country. The good news from communities like yours, where people are actually working the system. 

The system works if we’ll work the system. Our Constitution is amazing, and our freedoms are incredible, but we have to live them out. 

Please be sure and stop at that donate button and consider making a contribution; one-time or monthly but being a part of our listeners supported team.

Chad Hovind

Chad Hovind is back with us from Horizon Community Church in Cincinnati. Just a great teacher. I know you’re a good pastor too. But the stuff I get to see from you, Chad, is the way you teach. Thanks for taking the time to come back on WallBuilders Live.

Chad:

Oh, my pleasure. Well, I kind of see myself as an entertainer. One part educator, one part entertainer because I always learn best when I’m having fun. 

So as you know, we conquer all kinds of deep theological truths that we do in a real fun, practical way and might even see some stuff blow up while we’re learning about the Bible in philosophy.

Fast Track: Genesis To Revelations

Rick:

That’s what I love about you. My family is greatly enjoyed the different things that you’ve taught on from Gatonomics to your fast track to the Bible and other things. Our Patrick Academy students have had the chance to learn from you as well, and I just thought it was time to get you back on especially because a lot of our listeners may be familiar with fast track from a DVD series and the books at home. 

Now, you’re doing that in person actually coming in and taking a whole day to take people through fast track personally.

Chad:

Yeah, I have several churches. I think Biblical literacy is such a huge problem, and as a culture, no one knows the Bible anymore. We can’t punish those who don’t believe in it that way. But even Christians the level of biblical illiteracy is so high that we’ve got to do something about it. 

I just love the Bible.

I have loved the Bible since I was 2,3 years old. I would sit in church and think, oh my goodness, why are they teaching the most important message in the universe and such a boring, dull way. 

I actually read the Bible when I was in church because it was more engaging than the actual presentation. 

I Wanted To Do Deep And Compelling

I thought if I ever had a chance to teach the Bible in a way that was compelling and practical and deep, well, that’s what I want to do. I think in the church today we have had to bad alternatives it’s dry and dusty on one side, light and fluffy on the other side. I really want to do deep and compelling. 

So fast track became a series we at our church for children, for students, for adults called, the quickest way to understand the greatest story ever told. 

It was a way to take your whole church through the whole Bible in two or three hours. 

I would come in on a Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon and literally take people through the entire Bible in three hours. You’ll be more competent and more literate in the Bible while having fun than 99% of people out there because you’ll really understand the main themes of the Bible, understand the main stories and how they all fit together.

It All Ultimately Points To Jesus

The coolest part is how it all ultimately points to Jesus.

Rick:

Deep and compelling is right when you say this. Because first of all, it is entertaining, which I couldn’t agree with you more. 

I’m the same way about history. I can’t stand it when people make it boring and just memorizing dates and names. That’s why I fell in love with David Barton’s teachings 25 years ago.

You do the same exact same thing that we do with history. You do it with the Bible and such a powerful way: it’s compelling, it’s entertaining. 

It’s fun to learn in that way but yet you hit the deep theological themes as well. You drive home the most important parts so that they leave wanting to learn more, being hungry for more and that’s what we need more of.

Biblical Illiteracy In The Church

You also hit the nail on the head on the whole idea of biblical illiteracy. We’re not talking the world; we’re talking the church. The data that Barna has shown on that it’s just scary how few of us as Christians actually read the Bible, how few actually know basic biblical truths.

This is the reason that culture has careened off course because we in the church don’t know the instruction manual.

I Have Compassion For That And Passionate To Change

Chad:

That’s true, and I have a lot of compassion for that actually as much as it’s something that I’m passionate about to change. I don’t like to do things that make me feel embarrassed. 

I haven’t been in a gymnasium lifting weights since I was in high school because I remember lifting weights in ninth grade and both my coaches from track came in and laughed at me. Behind the glass, I didn’t know I could see them. 

So I kind of avoid circumstances that are gonna make me feel foolish. I think for a lot of people even though they want to learn the Bible; they know they don’t know it and they’re afraid they’re gonna get into a small group, a church and feel foolish. 

So one of the reasons I developed fast track is to say it’s okay if you don’t know anything. There’s no guilt. There’s no shame. We’re gonna start with the assumption that you want to know what this book is about, and we’re gonna start from the very beginning.

It’s not going to be simplistic or beneath you, but it’s also going to be something that’s easy to understand.

We’ve Adapted It For Different Learning Styles

We made it something that if you’re a visual learner, you draw along with it. There is a tic-tac-toe board. If you want to use your kinesthetic learning style, you can just watch and learn and see the pictures and begin to see how everything comes together. 

If you like having fun, I’m a magician, a juggler, and a scientist. We blow up 10,000 ping pong balls that shoot up in the air, and we talk about how our secrets blow up before we talk about David and Saul and Solomon and how their secrets ultimately blew up. 

I build the entire nativity scene out of balloon animals that are like three-foot-tall muppets. I got Mary holding baby Jesus, and Joseph and talk a little bit about you know the different predictions that led to Jesus. 

I’m a magician. So we have a menorah, and I show you how the menorah ultimately points to Jesus. Because that menorah represents the seven feasts and each one of those feast times out to Jesus is death. Jesus’ burial, resurrection, and even his birth. 

 So, there’s just a lot of fun ways. 

Smoke Rings And The Holy Spirit

There’s another thing: I’m making giant smoke rings and shooting them out to the audience. It’s one of my crowd favorites wherever I go. These giant smoke rings that are two-three four foot, screw them out to the audience. 

We talk about how the Holy Spirit fills us up, and I fill up this garbage can with smoke because the Holy Spirit fills us up and then I smack it on the back like a drum, and it shoots out these giant smoke rings, and that’s what the book of Acts is about.

God fills us up so we can go out and be his witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea into the uttermost parts of the earth.

I think that’s what’s fun about the series is: if you don’t know the Bible, and you feel incompetent. By the end of this three-hour seminar, you will feel competent.

Like wow, I could lead a Sunday school class. I could talk to my wife, or I could talk to my kids about the Bible because I have a basic framework. 

And like I said, at the end of the seminar I promise you you’re gonna be 99% more competent than anyone else out there. You’ll actually know who, not just who Sampson and Noah are, you’ll have an understanding of the northern kingdom in the southern kingdom.

You’ll know that there are books in the Bible that help you doubt like Habakkuk and like the book of Ruth. Naomi, she changes her name from pleasant to bitter, and how God uses this powerful story of a businessman named Boaz and a love affair with this woman that he falls in love with Ruth. 

Ultimately, the book shows you how a woman who had become so angry at God for losing her sons, and losing her husband, and losing her farm goes back to being pleasant again because when Ruth gives birth to her children; it says Naomi has had a child and it’s God’s way of restoring a doubter to this powerful story of redemption. 

So there’s just one little snapshot in the whole book of Ruth. But you just really understand how the whole Bible comes together.

I think a lot of people have a mindset that there’s an angry God in the Old Testament, then Jesus shows up, and says hey sorry about my dad and hell. 

Versus, you’re going to discover the God of the Old Testament is just as merciful, loving, and caring. 

You’re Going To Fall In Love With God Through Every Book Of The Bible

You’re going to fall in love with God through every book of the Bible, not just some Paulian Epistle. 

Rick:

 That’s so good, and blow up 10,000 ping pong balls at the same time.

Chad, I take a quick break but as we go to break, there a lot of our listeners are saying that’s the way I want to learn the Bible. 

What’s the best way for them to get a hold of you, either get faster on DVD or to bring you into their church to do one day?

Chad:

If you want to contact me and go to HorizonCC.com. That’s horizon, like horizon lines, CC.com. You can find my direct email there that’s [email protected] Email me direct, or you can go to our website FastTrackBible.com, and that’ll ricochet you over to a place that you can get the DVD series. 

The best way to contact me is directly through the church. You can also listen to our series that we do here as well.

Rick:

We’ll do those links to Wallbuilderslive.com today. A quick break we’ll be back right back. Chad Hovind who is our special guest today. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live. 

Front Sight Handgun Training Course

Hey friends! Rick Green here, from WallBuilders Live. What do Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Rick Green, Tim Barton, David Barton – what do all these folks have in common other than the fact that they’re conservative commentators that defend the Constitution and educate America on the Constitution?

They’re all raving about Front Sight Firearms Training Institute.

In fact, if you go to my website right now today at RickGreen.com, you can watch the video of Dennis Prager training at Front Sight, or Larry Elder, or Tim Barton, or myself out there training at Front Sight.

It’s an opportunity for you to learn how to defend yourself and your family to make sure that you are ready and able to do that. It is a fantastic place to train.

They train 30 to 40,000 people a year, and they’re just wonderful to work with. 

And you can go with us! We’re headed back out. We’re going to have a great time out there as the WallBuilders family, and if you’re a supporter of WallBuilders, we have an amazing deal for you.

It’s actually going to cost you 1/10th the normal price to attend this two-day handgun training because you’re going with us. And, you’ll also get the Constitution crash course.

I’ll be teaching on the Constitution. You’ll get the intellectual ammunition that you need to defend the Second Amendment and our Constitution. As well as getting physical training on how to defend yourself and your family.  

And, this is for everyone – guys, gals, everyone should take this class. No matter how much you’ve shot your whole life or if you’ve never touched a gun, learn how to defend your family.

We’re going to be going several times throughout the year, and we would love to have you be a part of that.

Check it out at RickGreen.com today to find out the dates, get all the specifics, and get all of your questions answered.

Check out RickGreen.com today to join us on this Front Sight trip for both your constitutional and handgun defense training. 

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here at WallBuilders Live. Chad Hovind who has been our special guest today.

He’s the pastor at Horizon Community Church in Cincinnati. He is also a great teacher to many people across the country, including my family. We love his different programs that he puts out like Gatonomics and fast track.

This Is The Way This Generation Needs To Learn The Bible

Chad, as you were talking in the first segment, I think that is the way that this generation, especially coming up, needs to learn the Bible. 

It’s not just this angry God who’s ready to hit you with a stick. It’s all about these rules to take away your joy. It’s, in fact, an instruction manual that will bring you joy. 

Finding fun ways to teach it is so important. We’re in an entertainment age, and it’s absolutely necessary if we want people to pay attention.

Chad:

Yeah, I don’t think entertainers inherently bad. A lot of people write that.

Colossians says, whatever you do in deed, do it all in the name of the Lord. Jesus was a master storyteller. 

Rick:

That’s really.

Chad:

We did a series couple of years ago called visual aids. And I went verse by verse through the book of Ezekiel. That guy has got a new visual aid.

He’s acting out stuff. He’s flipping over on. He’s cooking food over his own dung. I mean, it’s amazing. Look at Ezekial where every chapter, he’s got a new teaching aide. 

So the idea of using object-lessons and storytelling and fun things to make the Bible come alive has actually been God’s ideal from the very beginning. 

The Book Of Leviticus

I took on the biggest challenge three years ago; I decided to teach verse by verse through the Book of Leviticus.

If you can imagine talking about a tough book, we called the series Holy Smokes we’re studying Leviticus. If you don’t know the book, it’s about holiness, and it’s about smoke offerings to God. We had such a great time making the hardest book in the Bible come to life. What does it mean to enter a sacred space from a common space? How did God make a way? What does it look like to know that God wants to turn you into sacred space?

We used silhouettes. I walked backstage in silhouette and was the high priest. I showed what it looked like for them with a smoke offering to go before the temple and the mercy seat. 

What does it mean that Jesus is our propitiation? There are just so many ways in which even these tough, difficult, hated books of the Bible can be properly taught with creativity and application. 

My goal in that series was: I’m going to take the book you hate the most and make it the book you love the most. We had so many people saying, wow I never knew even a tough look like Leviticus could be something that taught me how to love God more.

We Desperately Need The Application 

Rick:

Yeah. You said a keyword there – application. I mean even a book like that, and you’re talking about teaching how God wants to make you holy and how to love God more. 

That seems like what we need culturally. 

We need desperately is the application of the instruction manual. How does this actually apply to my life, my family, my relationships, my work, how I treat others. It’s all of those things. It’s not just a salvation message, 52 weeks a year. It’s actually saying look there’s real instruction here for how to get the most out of life.

Chad:

Every time I get a message; I want to talk to a 20-year Bible veteran and yet also know somebody who’s never heard, the Bible can both listen at the same time. 

I want to learn stuff I’ve never learned about passages I’ve read my whole life. 

When you go through the book, The Life of Jesus, we cover the Gospels in one of our sessions at Fast Track. 

Jesus Was In Control Even In The Garden

If you look at Mark’s account or Luke’s account when Jesus is in the garden, most people know that Judas comes to kiss him. Now he’s asked how many people does Judas bring with him? From the movies, people have like 5to 20 people coming. But the word used a cohort of soldiers was one-tenth of six thousand. So there are possibly six hundred soldiers that came to get Jesus. Plus it says a chief priest that could be up to 70, plus the officers of the court, that could have been 20 to 100. 

There were maybe a thousand people who came to get Jesus in the garden that day. Why have I never heard that? 

When they show up, Jesus turns to them, and says before the kiss, who are you after? They say Jesus of Nazareth, and he says I am. 

He says the very name of God given to Moses in the burning bush. And it says that they all fell over. I mean, why hasn’t this been emphasized a sermon?

Jesus right before he’s betrayed says the name of God and knocks over all these guys with clubs and swords and fire, and they’re trying to blow up the fire in the ground, and even in a moment like that, it felt like God was in control. 

Jesus was so in control, and this is the God I want. A God who in the midst of uncertainty and difficulty still commands the very presence of God.

The Garden of Gethsemane

I’ll give you one more the garden of Gethsemane.

I thought that was the name of the garden. A Gethsemane is actually is an olive press. So Jesus takes his disciples to a garden to pray. But he took them to the Gethsemane which is an olive press because he wanted them to see that he was about to be pressed and crushed. If you ever been to a Gethsemane, it’s an incredible process where they take olives, and they crush them. Of course, this is at the Mount of Olives, and all those olive trees need to be crushed on this giant boulder. He put his bag of olives together and then a telephone pole of these giant boulders that are cranked up on it and they basically squish and crush the juices out of the olive. 

But Jesus takes his disciples there for his final hours to say guys I’m about to be crushed, and you’re about to be crushed. When you put us in hot water, what’s inside of us comes out, and that’s what you see on the cross. 

What comes out of Jesus when he’s crushing it, in that metaphorical Gethsemane, is the love of God pours out. The forgiveness that God pours out, courage pours out. In fact, the Roman Centurion was so struck at Jesus’s death because it says Jesus with head held high that it is finished. 

No one on the cross held their head high. No one cried out in a loud voice. You died from suffocation. 

Jesus is a commanding presence that even at the very hours is up on that cross like a hero, winning the day which is why these skeptical Roman guards are like oh my goodness we just killed the son of God.

Rick:

I was just thinking as you were describing that. I’ve always thought they said that because of the weather that came in. The storm that rolled in the loud thunder, all of that but that image that you just painted of him actually being able to physically do something that no other man they’d crucified had ever done; and hold that head high and say it in that way, that makes so much more sense to me now.

Chad:

These Roman centurions, they’re crucifying dozens of people that day. These are not soft hearts toward death. To the honor nature of the Roman Empire, this was brutal. It was brutal because the gods were awarding them for being brutal. That’s the nature of this nature of Zeus, Demeter, of Hades, and all their gods. 

For them to be struck in the honor culture, this had to be the most honorable heroic death they’d ever seen before. That’s why the loud voice, the head held high; these details mentioned by the gospel writers speak to something that was a commanding presence that stood out to the most skeptical, the most hard-hearted, the most callous warriors who said, that is honor.

Rick:

Chad Hovind is our special guest talking about fallen in love with the Bible today and studying it in a fun way. 

Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Biographical Sketches 

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well. 

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “The Courageous Leaders Collection” and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers. 

There’s a second collection called, “Heroes of History” in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on. 

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And, it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live.Chad Hovind our special guest. We’re talking about studying the Bible in a fun, entertaining way and falling in love with God’s Word where it applies to our lives in every situation.

Make Teaching The Bible So Fun

Chad, you make the teaching of the Bible so fun. Not only on these topics we’ve covered today but even believe it or not economics! The most boring subject ever invented, and yet you do this God or Novick Syria in the same way – you take God’s word you apply to the free market. You take God’s word; you apply it to our individual finances. 

All of these different applications of God’s word. I got to ask you: what do you tell your congregation and when you go speak the audiences about studying God’s work going forward?

So after they experience say fast track with you for a few hours, and it’s been brought to life, and they want to study the Bible more and more. What do you do to challenge them to have that consistent daily digging into God’s word attitude and just habit?

Once You Have The Framework, It Is Easier

Chad:

Once they have the framework, there is a little more confidence. With confidence, you go into it because you know at least who nine of the main characters are, even know what century I’m in. I know a couple of the frameworks; does Noah come before Abraham or Moses. 

So once people have the framework, it’s a lot easier to jump in. I say pick a book of the Bible, start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. Realize they cover the same material because some people don’t realize that they get kind of discouraged. They read Matthew and then Luke like this all the same stuff over enough. 

Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John and just get to know Jesus. Just see the guy gets angry at the right times, he cries at the right times, he doesn’t put up with nonsense at the right times. 

He’s like the person you always wanted. He’s a father you always wanted. He’s the best friend you always wanted. He’s a very complex character that wouldn’t be invented and let Jesus in the Bible attest to itself. You’ve heard a lot of caricatures about Jesus and somebody quoting about Jesus or misquoting Jesus.

Read one of the accounts of Jesus’ life and just read a paragraph a day. 

Space Method

I teach several methods, but the one I love is the space method. Which is as you’re going through a paragraph or a page look for space. ‘S’ for sins I’m looking to confess. ‘P’ I’m looking for promises to claim. ‘A’ I’m looking for actions to follow or not follow. ‘C’ I’m looking for commands to obey or ‘E’ examples to imitate or not imitate.

Now some of those overlaps because whether you’re in a Paulian Epistle or whether you’re in Luke and narrative or whether you’re a piece of poetry; you’re going to find more commands and some and more examples and other. 

Don’t forget often the Bible’s not primarily a book about people doing the right thing. In fact, it’s the opposite. Almost everyone in the Bible is a scoundrel. An absolute scoundrel. God continues to work in spite of their scoundrel-ness, their narrow mindedness, their backwardness or self-centeredness. 

That’s The Key

Rick:

Like us, right? That’s the key. 

We tend to think sometimes if I’m not perfect, and holy then he wouldn’t use me or wouldn’t want me or any of those things, and you’re so right. 

In every story in the Bible, you go wait a minute that guy’s doing the same stuff I did or even worse. But I mean they’re scoundrels we’re scoundrels. It causes your perspective to be different. Sorry to interrupt you, they’re good.

Chad:

No, that’s fine. Adam obviously destroyed the world for all of us and Noah’s a drunkard. Abraham is an absolute liar. God says the first thing I want you to do is to trust me, leave your family and go to a new land. 

The first thing he does is take his family with him and Lot. Then he lies about as his wife being his sister; then he lies about it again. He picks up Hagar, and then he sleeps around with her. He’s an adulterer. He and Moses have a huge anger problem and a huge fear problem. He loses his temper and kills somebody and hits a rock when he(Moses) is supposed to talk to a rock. It goes on and on and on and on.

I think a lot of us grew up in churches that teach the Bible, but they really teach moralism; go be like Samson. 

Go be like Samson? 

You want me to go burn down the fields? You want me to sleep around? You want me to break my Nazareth vow to God all the time? You want me to marry a person with totally different values than me? When she gets tricked at the wedding, you want me to go kill 30 people? 

If you read the Bible right, you realize it’s God – a great loving, forgiving God working with scandalous people. He is always finding a way that grace and mercy can seep in and work in the most unusual and the most difficult of circumstances.

Invite Chad To Speak At Your Church

Rick:

So good. 

Chad, I hate running out of time when you’re on the program because I know how much more is there. 

There are so many different ways to learn and study with Chad Hovind.  

Chad, if people to bring you in live and actually do a weekend with you. Maybe come in to do a Saturday fast track and stay. You’ve got your own church there in Cincinnati, are you available to actually speak at churches as well not just to a seminar but stay over and speak? It’s probably a rare thing, but can you do that?

Chad:

Yeah, I’ll do several weekends a year, so I’ll be selective in those. I love going and speaking at different places. 

We can make the best bang for the buck; come in and speak on the weekend and then sort of make that the inspiration to come back on a Sunday night or Sunday afternoon or a Saturday morning for the full fast track seminar. 

I love doing that thing, and while I’m there sometimes, I’ll do speech coaching.

I will teach a whole speech coaching team, whether it’s the main pastors on staff or the volunteer team. 

My approach to communication so that you can raise the level of your communication in your whole team and your whole staff in the church. Sometimes I will do economic talks as well. Again, I’m a pastor I speak 60 to 70 original messages a year. 

So really any topic that you’re looking for I’ve probably done a message on or I’m about to do a message on and all that can be found at my website horizoncc.com. That’s where our church is. That’s like horizon like the horizon line C.C.com. You can find my website there, and that’s the best way to contact me.

Rick:

Horizoncc.com. Chad Hovind. Chad, the reason we wanted to have you on today is that we really believe the restoration of the country depends on the restoration biblical values and getting people to fall in love with God’s word again and actually apply it. 

You’re just a master at it. We’re so thankful that God uses you in the way that he does and you make yourself available not just to your community there in Cincinnati but to folks across the country.

Thank you for your time today. It’s been such a blast. Looking forward to having you back again soon. 

Chad:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Rick:

That’s Chad Hovind. You’ve been listening to Walbuilders Live. Thanks for listening today. Be sure to visit our website Wallbuilderslive.com, and we’ll have links over to Chad’s information there as.