Right Of Conscience Victory on Good News Friday today on WallBuilders Live!  In this episode, we discuss things such as, a school Bible study was brought back in Michigan, a study discovers the 3 steps to reduce poverty, grants given to adult stem cell research because embryonic stems cells are not working, physician assisted suicide in D.C denied, and finally, KY appeals court upholds right of conscience victory for printer.

Air Date: 08/04/2017

Guests: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times.  We apologize in advance.

Welcome To Good News Friday

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture! This is WallBuilders Live!  You found us on Good News Friday.  You can find out more about what that means and what WallBuilders Live is all about.

By visiting our Web site WallBuildersLive.com and also WallBuilders.com. We’re looking at the hottest topics of the day from a biblical historical and constitutional perspective.  We are here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian. And Tim Barton president of  WallBuilders and national speaker and pastor. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state representative.

So this Good News Friday is an opportunity for David and Tim to share with you a lot of good news from across the country and around the world a lot of things you probably have not heard.  That’s usually not covered by the major media but really encouraging to see all of these victories across the culture.

So let’s dive right in. David,  Tim, Let’s get some good news. David, you’re up, first.


You bet. I’m going to Michigan.

Well, actually, the news story is from Michigan.  Although, I like going to Michigan. Michigan’s great state. It’s a lot of diversity.

Hey, they’ve had a lot of victories the last few years to do some good things.


They have had a lot of victories. Yes.


Good friends up there like Pat Colbeck, senator.  They’re good Christian folks.


How about Kid Rock? Is that one of your friends, too?


I don’t know Kid Rock but I see a lot of Facebook posts for people that are excited about him possibly running for office.


I think they’re mostly just excited and not have a politician running for office.




That might be the catch there. But anyway, I just thought with our Michigan friends, now Kid Rock entering the scene.


Is he really running or is this a PR thing? I haven’t really paid attention.


It looks like he’s really –




Right. Now Donald Trump has inspired the best in everybody or perhaps the worst. I’m not sure. But it looks like a real deal. Yeah.

And they’re trying to be like some of their neighbors up there, I guess in Minnesota that had- what’s his name?


Jesse Ventura.


Yes, that’s it, Jesse Ventura.

Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger in California.

I can handle Schwarzenegger but Ventura is the one that sued Chris Kyle’s wife and the state. Now, anyway don’t get me off on that.  So, crazy people running for office, though.

Well, Kid Rock appears to be much more conservative than Jesse Ventura was.  And really appears to be a friend of Trump. At least they tend to like each other.

And so at this point, he appears to be a libertarian kind of a conservative. I don’t know where he is on the moral issues and values but government wise he seems to be a conservative with smaller government.  Which that’s an improvement especially coming out of Michigan.

It would be kind of nice to be a candidate and you don’t have to bring anybody else in to play or sing at your event. You just do that performing yourself, then give your speech, then close out with God Bless America or something yourself. You could be a one man show.


And it maybe that would maybe be part of the appeal.

Yeah. I’d love to see Ted Nugent do the same thing. But anyway, I’m sorry I got you way off track there. So back to our good news in Michigan.

Prayer In Schools

Well, those are your non-political candidates and right now that the climate is really good for those guys. So back to Michigan.,  And Fremont, Michigan, there was a “controversial” Bible study that was canceled by the school and it goes back to something that the U.S. Supreme Court decision, I think in 1947 to 1948, but it led to what’s called release time.

And in public schools, you can let kids out of school for up to two hours a week to go get religious instruction, pure doctrinal instruction.  You can have something right there adjacent to the campus and the kids go for two hours a week.

And so some of the people in town obviously, said, “Well, this is an unconstitutional program.”

Bible Study Brought Back Because Parents Stood Up

Well, when they did that the school, as often happens, said, “Oh well, we can’t have something unconstitutional so we’re going to stop free speech and free exercise of religion.  We’re going to stop all those constitutional things because that’s unconstitutional.”

So they did that but they brought the program back. And I love the reason they brought it back.  The article says here, “There has been an overwhelming response from parents in Fremont to bring the Bible study back.”

And so the superintendent said,  “I hear the parents.  I’m going to respond to this.”

And so now the Bible study is back.  It was never unconstitutional even under the wacky Supreme Court decisions back in that era. They said that that program is constitutional.

Bible Study Is Constitutional

So it’s been constitutional for 65 years or whatever it is. And so now it’s back.  But that’s good news that the parents in Michigan, Fremont, Michigan stood up and said, “Hey we want this.  Is a really popular program with our kids. We and by the way, everybody else, listen up. If your school doesn’t have this program, you can start it.”

It’s easy to do.  It’s called release time and the kids can get out for up to two hours a week for pure religious instruction or devotional stuff or whatever they want to do. You’ve got lots of religious clubs you can have on the campus but this is one you can have off campus. You can be really hard core discipleship and training and it is constitutional. So good news from Michigan.

I couldn’t help but think David when you said at the beginning a controversial Bible study and you know that used to mean to guys like us a controversial bible study would be one where somebody is taking the Bible and saying it says stuff it doesn’t actually say.

It’s just the controversy is that there is a Bible study now, right?

Well, all it takes to be controversial now is for one person to object to it. And that’s why I used air quotes around the word controversial because that’s how the news station reported.  It’s controversial. Well, that means maybe one person called the Freedom From Religion Foundation and objected to it.

Heckler’s Veto

We had one of these stories last week where there had been something there in Neosho, Missouri for like 67 years and nobody in the entire town had ever objected.  But somebody from out of town objected and so then they’re having this fight.

So controversial now means that some dissenter objected.  That you or I objected, it wouldn’t be controversial.  We are just going to have to shut up and take our medicine.  That’s the way it is. But if you’re on the other side then that’s considered controversial if just one person opposes it.


That heckler’s veto that you’re talking about.



I mean the community wants it.  The parents want it.  The kids are loving it. But one person comes along -maybe not even from town.  They just drive through or they’re offended by the cross they see at the cemetery or whatever it might be and that heckler’s veto creates this major controversy.

But good news is the superintendent listened to the parents and the parents made it really clear,  “We want this program back.”

We’ll be back with more good news.  Tim Barton up next.  Stay with us at WallBuilders Live.

Moment From American History

This is TimBarton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early seventeen hundreds, the Reverend John Wise preached that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny, and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the governed.

All of which is language recognizable in the Declaration of Independence. Why? Because in 1772 the Sons of Liberty led by Founders Sam Adams and John Hancock reprinted and distributed the Reverend Wise’s sermons.

Four years later, much of the Declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Wise.  In 1926 on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed, “€œThe thoughts in the Declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Wise was saying.”€

Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Rev. John Wise. For more information on this and other stories go to WallBuilders.com.

We’re back in a while. Thanks for staying with us on this Good News Friday.  David shared some good news with us last segment Tim Barton up this segment. Tim, what do we got?

Three Steps To Reducing Poverty


This one is, I guess, is a cultural steady indication- something that confirms Biblical truth. And it’s– the title is more evidence that getting your life “in order” is the key to reducing poverty.

Now certainly something that we care a lot about in our culture is we don’t want to see people in poverty. We want to help people and in America, we do so much to help people in need. And there are so many government programs that do so much and arguably way more than what they should.  And they don’t do a great job with our tax dollars taking it and redistributing our wealth.

Anyway, that’s neither here nor there. What the study really identifies is interestingly, because everybody in life wants to be successful. They’ve gone and documented some trends in people’s lives of what have led to them being financially stable.

Specifically, they say if you want to reduce poverty in your life the three steps you need to take. Number one graduate high school. Number two get a full-time job. And number three get married before having kids.

Now, none of those seem like really big things except when you look at culture. What you see in culture is that a lot of times people don’t have those things lined up and in order. And so what they identified is at 55 percent of millennial parents. So the parents of millennials have had children before getting married while compared to 25 percent of the youngest baby boomers who did the same.

And it says a trend could be costing them.  What they identified is that 71 percent of people who married before having children made it into the middle or higher end of the income distribution by the time they were 28 to 34.



But here’s what’s significant about that 71 percent —


Man, we needed to share that with the leadership training classes we did.  That’s a great stat.

Get Married Before Having Kids

Well, what’s also interesting is that 71 percent started from low-income families.




So they started low income but because they graduated high school, they got a full-time job, and they got married before they had kids. Then they were able to be financially stable and rise from the lower class up to the middle class.

Contrasted, only 41 percent of millennials from lower income families who had children first made it to the middle or higher end of the distribution when they reached ages 28 to 34. So if they start having kids before they graduate high school, before they have a full-time job, and before they got married then they’re much less likely to make it out of that lower income level.  Which again is kind of following the Biblical model.

So if Biblically speaking, even just in relationship, the Bible indicates that sexuality is between one man and one woman and a lifelong union known as marriage.

Statistics Show Bible Is Right

If you wait until marriage to be sexually involved.  If you wait till marriage to have kids -this is a huge deal in regards to even your economic position, socially, culturally going forward because generally, we don’t have a hard time graduating high school. I mean generally, culturally speaking that’s not a hard deal.

Finding a full-time job can be a little more iffy, especially, millennials like to be a challenge sometimes because we’re not really always- collectively- not everybody’s into hard work and full-time jobs.  But for sure Millennials struggle with cohabitation because for most Millennials they think it’s not a big deal to live with a girlfriend or boyfriend. And then if you have kids that’s fine. We don’t have to be married, we love each other.  But the numbers don’t lie.

And it’s not even close to the percentage of people that are making it out of low income, making it successful when they get married before having kids, after they’ve graduated high school and gotten a full-time job.

This goes back to prove what God said in Deuteronomy 6:24. He said,  “Everything I command you is for your good so you can prosper and remain alive.”

And so often on Good News Fridays, we will end up having statistical findings that say,  “Hey you know the Bible was right all along.”  And here’s another one. I mean this is really dramatic stuff. When you look at those percentages who’ve moved from lower income to middle to upper income and the biggest factors are the marriage aspect of it.

I mean it goes back to God said,  “Yep I told you that. I told you that fifty-five hundred years ago I told you everything that I have here is for your benefit. You can prosper.” And boy, here’s some good stats showing that is exactly the case.

We’ve already seen stats in recent years showing that what they call the feminization of poverty. Women who were in poverty the greatest factor of that is kids outside of marriage. And so now you go on the Millennials. Not only is this a factor on income but look how you move from one class of income to another.  You move from lower class to middle to upper class. I mean that’s really some dramatic findings.

The Ten Commandments

I was thinking the exact same thing you said, David, about it. God gave us these things for our own good. Remember, last year we had Stephen McDowell on every month and went through his book on the Ten Commandment.  And every time it was so eye opening to realize because our perspective, especially is we don’t want anybody. We’re all about liberty. We don’t want anybody constricting our choices and what we can do.

And sometimes the view of the Ten Commandments these days is that instead of going, wait a minute this is a gift.  And remember how often Stephen would say that in those episodes this is a gift that God’s given to us. The results when you follow his way are so much better and here’s statistical data proving exactly that.

Once again another quick break.  We’ll be right back with more good news when we return here at WallBuilders Live.

Avalon Project


Hey, guys, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. I know you hear my dad and Rick talk a lot about our Founding Fathers about the original intent of our nation, a constitutional heritage that we have. And really we’ve seen how far we slipped away from that. And I know a lot of us as we hear my dad and Rick talk think, “€œI wish there was a place that I could go where I could see these documents and I could read and learn about the Founding Fathers firsthand.  See the things they did.”€  

I want to give you some websites today that can help you accomplish that very thing. If you get online you can go to places like Library of Congress and you can look under their century of lawmaking or historical documents. You can go to the Avalon Project, to the Founders Constitution, Google Books, or even the internet archives.  

Or you can just go to WallBuilders.com. We have a section for our WallBuilders Library. And under that section, we have different subgroups for historical documents, historical writings, even a place where you can get helpful links to find out more information about other websites.  Where you can do research for yourself and find the truth for yourself. Friends, this is the time that we need to know who we are and where we came from. WallBuilders.com is a great place to go.

Thanks for staying with us all on WallBuilders Live e today. We’re back with David and Tim Barton for some more good news.   David’s turn.

So David, what’s next for going to Washington, D.C. one of the things the Constitution did was established Washington, D.C. as a separate area that can never become a state. And by the way, the movement for D.C. statehood is really nonsense.

Washington, DC Employees Make 70% Higher Than The Other States

And the reason the Founding Fathers understood this 200 years ago is if you let D.C. become a state then all the other states will be jealous and want to compete because you have what is it 2.2 million federal employees and so many of them there in D.C. and the income of a federal employee in D.C. is like 70 percent higher than all income people around it. And so all the other states will say hey we want that higher income we want those jobs you’ve got to spend money in our state and so government would grow just it would grow at a faster rate than it is now.

So the Founders wisely said no, no, no DC cannot be a state because that will keep it from competing with the other states.  It will be its own federal city. And so all the way through from the beginning and the first president to have a full term in Washington, D.C. was Thomas Jefferson.

They moved into D.C. about three months before he became president.  He was vice president. He’s the first president to have a full term there. And so it’s a brand new city and they’re establishing things.

So when they establish education in D.C., it’s the federal government that runs education in D.C,  because it’s not a state, therefore Federal Territories and the federal city that’s under the control of the federal government.

The same thing with transportation in DC.  That’s under control the federal government is not supposed to be with the states but with federal territories or with D.C. it is.

Thomas Jefferson On The School Board

And so Jefferson ends up being on the school board from Washington, D.C. If you can imagine the president of the United States been on the school board and he authors the plan of education. So he’s got all these local roles as well as the national role that he has.

And so back in the 60s, I think it was they allowed D.C. to have Home Rule government because prior to that, Congress is what ran DC because it is a federal city.

And then I think in 60 or 68 or something they said,  No, no, no, we’ll let D.C. have its own election for mayor and city council etc. But the caveat is that whatever is decided by the city council, the Congress of the United States can veto it because they have the final authority over D.C.  So they allow home rule but they still get the final authority.

So if D.C. says we’re not going to do school choice the federal government says, “Yes you are. We’re going to have school choice.

Physician Assisted Suicide Denied In D.C.

Well, in this case, the D.C. city council last year said, “We’re going to allow physician assisted suicides and the first step has just been taken.”  The committee on appropriations of the House had just said, “No you’re not.  You’re not going to do assisted suicide in D.C.”

So the good news is that the federal government is able to weigh in and still say that in a city like D.C. We’re not going to take innocent life. We don’t do that in abortions and we aren’t going to do it once you’re out of the womb either.  We’re not going to allow you to take life in a random manner. And so that’s the good news that out of D.C. we have the first step on neutralizing the D.C. City Council policy on legalizing assisted suicides.

All right.  Actually, Tim, we’ve got time for another good news before we go to break. You got one?

Stem Cell Research


Yeah, let me let me throw in a quick one.  This is another scientific study and it seems like every week, maybe every two weeks we have something related to this. This is related to stem cell research.

And the title for this is –


Finally a victory for embryonic stem cells.   Is that what we’re going to get?   We finally have a victory for embryonic stem cell?


It does say embryonic stem cell in the title.  It doesn’t say victory.  It says, “Despite massive hype and billions of dollars, embryonic stem cells still haven’t cured a single patient.”


Man, that’s 60 years they haven’t done it.


So it’s a little different than making something positive happen.

I wonder how the California taxpayers feel about that $3 billion they put in.

Embryonic Stem Cells Are Not Working

Do you know what they did, Rick? They are now giving grants to adult stem cells because even in California they have concluded that embryonic is not working and it’s a waste of their money even though that money was specifically designated for embryonic stem cell. They’re now giving the grants to adult stem cell research because that’s what’s working even in California.


Yes. For however many years that we’ve been, embryonic stem cell- and this is going to be you know the new scientific breakthrough all these medical cures and they’ve yet to produce anything. Well, they do point out in this article is that there are more than one and a half million people that have received treatment from adult stem cell and it has saved their life or significantly improved their medical condition their health.

They identify things like they’ve been able to give treatment to stroke victims even years after they’ve had their stroke. It’s been able to impact and help possibly affect their lives.  Multiple sclerosis putting people into remission so not just stopping the progression of the disease but also backing up what the disease has done whether it’s things from different joints knee joints, dealing with hearts and eyes. Just incredible stuff.

This is stem cell has been providing effective tissue repair. So just another article identifying the positive things from an adult stem cell as opposed to embryonic stem cell which again the government has been working to fund for so long even though it’s produced no medical cures whereas adult stem cell. Here’s just another article citing those victories.

You know there is a group out there that is just into human death.  They are into human death for unborn kids.  They’re into human death for research.  They are into human death for adults for assisted suicide.  They are just into human death.

And it just doesn’t produce results any way you look at it.  It’s just really strange, the anti-Biblical values that are out there are illogical when you use them statistically.  You know for them it’s a matter of their preferences or the choice. But for Democrats to be so adamant on this stuff and for liberals and progressives and others and they used to be some pro-life Democrats.

And even Joe Manchin U.S. senator from West Virginia.  I mean he went as a pro-life Democrat. Now he’s voting for Planned Parenthood. Bob Casey went in from Pennsylvania’s a pro-life.  To me, you just can’t find a pro-life Democrat anymore. And that’s really unfortunate.

You heard after the election the head of the Democratic national party said hey there’s no room for pro-lifers in t Democrat party. I mean how fixated are you on death to make that declaration where that if you are pro-life we don’t even want you in our party.

If you’re willing to vote Democrat, we don’t even want you because we only want pro-death people. It’s just amazing stuff and here you have now research on stem cells which have been going apparently from the 40s and they have zero cures on embryonic and yet they insist on doing that and not adult.  That’s where they want to put the money even though it’s not working. Crazy stuff.

That’s part of why I’m so surprised that California moved some of that money over after. I mean that the data was so obvious. But they’ve been blind in the past like you’re saying.  So double good news both from Stuart.  Tim was telling, even this idea that California moves some of the money into adult stem cell instead of that 3 billion being all spent on wasted on embryonic.

A very quick break.  Our last segment. Good news coming up real quick.  We’ll be right back.

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Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live.  We have got one more segment of good news today. I’m a little lost, guys.  I think David’s up,  right?

Right of Conscience Case: KY Court Upholds Ruling

Yeah, I’m up and I’m going to Kentucky. We have a court ruling in Kentucky that’s really good.  In Kentucky, there was a printer named Blaine Adamson.  His business is Hands on Originals.  And for the gay pride parade there they came to him ask them to print T-shirts.

Well, he’s a traditional Biblical values guy and said, “I can’t do that. That violates my right of conscience.  I can’t promote homosexuality which is contrary to what I believe God wants. In the best interests of all people and he loves his children.  He knows what’s best for them and this is not good. But here’s another printer you can go to.”

And so he offered to get them other printers and etc. And actually they ended up with another printer who printed all their T-shirts for the gay pride parade. Printed them all for free. But that didn’t keep them from suing him.

And you’re going to violate your conscience whether you like us or not. We’re going to coerce you into doing something that violates your religious conscience. Now you know they continue to call us intolerant. That kind of sounds like intolerance to me.

Decision In Favor of Religious Right of Conscience

We don’t coerce them into doing this but they coerce us into it. And so this goes to the Kentucky appeals court and they come down with the decision in favor of the printer.  And so right of conscience, rights of religious conscience trump the rights of perceived sexuality or sexual expression or sexual behavior whatever that is.  And inalienable right is the right to religious conscience.

And when the Founding Fathers did the First Amendment whether it’s Washington or Madison or Jefferson or so many others Livingston they all talked about how the First Amendment is all about the rights of religious conscience.  And so that is the essence of free exercise of religion is to exercise your religion according to the dictates of conscience as you understand God giving you guidance.

And so to do that trumps the LGBT agenda which really is good news. And so here’s a victory come out of Kentucky and this year we’ve already seen a number of victories for religious right of conscience including at the U.S. Congress level in federal courts.

And so now maybe the tide is starting to turn.  For five or six years and the Obama administration man, we’re getting our clock cleaned.  And there’s a case being appealed the U.S. Supreme Court right now for Baker in Colorado who’s facing jail time because he refused to bake a cake for a homosexual couple.  Facing jail time for not baking a cake for them.

So we’ll see how that goes and what the court does with it whether to take it or not. But there is definitely a change starting to happen in the nation back in favor of the right to religious conscience over LGBT agenda.

Facing Jail Time By Not Violating Right of Conscience


Just let that sink in. Facing jail time for not wanting to participate in something that violates your right of conscience not wanting to use your art or your science. We would never ask a minority to have to go sing, say a black singer to go sing at a white supremacist rally just because they were invited. Right?

I mean it is crazy that we’re actually making people go participate in things and use their gift their talent their skill for something they’re completely opposed to.  And then threatening them with jail.  Running them out of business. Folks, we’ve got to get our common sense back and we’ve got to protect the First Amendment.

Thanks for listening today.  You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.