Run To The Roar, Part 3 – Time For A New Mindset: What should we do when evil raises its voice? Is bigger automatically better? How is success defined for the Church? Is success defined by quantify or quantity?  What could happen if each one would reach one? Tune in and be inspired and equipped to make a true difference!

Air Date: 01/14/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, the culture, always looking at things from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. We need that right now in our culture, and you can help spread the truth. 

You can help get this out there in the culture by going to, sharing the links to today’s program. Frankly, all week, all of the programs this week, we’ve been bringing you this great presentation David Barton did a few days ago on “Running to the Roar”. We’re going to jump back into that today and then we’ll get the final conclusion tomorrow. So let’s jump right back into David Barton on “Running to the Roar”.

Running to the Roar


One thing, we got to get over his obsession with the national focus. The second thing we have to get over with is idea that bigger is better. And we believe this in so many areas. Now, we believe it, for example, in the area of business. I mean, Walmart is the largest and what they got, 3 million employees, now they get more employees than the federal government has. So we got Walmart, and we got all these mega stores, and these big box stores that are so huge.

We’ve got the same thing in addition, we got education. We’ve got some universities now with over 100,000 students in the university. How do you get personalized instruction when you’re one of 100,000? We have a number of universities over 50,000. We got several here in Texas that are that big and we think that provides good education. That’s not the way Jesus did his teaching. 

12 Guys

He had 12 guys and he spent time with each one. It was that individual stuff that really shaped you, shaped your character. But nonetheless, we’re into this bigger is better, bigger government. We’ve just voted for that. So we’re going to have bigger government, for sure for the next four years.

You also have churches the same way. As a matter of fact, churches are one that’s intriguing to me. When you look at where we are with church, there’s 384,000 churches in America. Now doing polling that George Barna called 500 Today, what we know is that 72% of churches in America do not agree with the fundamental teachings of the Bible. 

What you have is 107,000, they’re 28%. So out of that 28%, we call these guys, theologically conservative. Only one out of four churches believes what the Bible says. And so out of that with George, then ask the pastor says, okay, as a biblical believing church, as a theologically conservative church that adheres to the teachings of the Bible, how do you know when you’re successful?

And asking the churches, the top five answers were very interesting. Top Five answers, how do you measure success as a biblical believing church? By the number of attendees, by the size of the offerings, by the square footage in use, by the number of programs, and by the number of staff. Can you show me a Bible verse for any of those five?

So as biblical believing churches, we’re using a measurement that is not biblical, which is interesting, because you always get what you measure. If measurement is how many people here, I’m going to do everything I can to get people here, which means I’m not going to offend anybody and I’m not going to… Jesus was offending people all the time. Not that he tried to. But you remember, Jesus spoke the truth in love, Ephesians 4:15. 

All the time, the crowd, John 6, he said, there they go again here, everybody’s leaving me. Turn to disciples, you guys going to leave me too? Oh, man, Jesus, that was a really hard teaching. But yeah, we’ll stay with you.

The Truth in Love

Jesus had to rebuild so many times. It’s unbelievable how many people got offended him and left because he wasn’t trying to offend them, he just speaks the truth in love. And sometimes speaking, the truth and love is very offensive, and now we’re not going to say that.

So what we have is we mentioned this, but this number of attendees were in this and by the way, you saw all five of those things deal with bigger numbers, bigger square footage, and bigger staff and bigger offerings, and bigger number of people. So we’re into this bigger stuff, but just the number of attendees is significant. 

That if you took any mega church in America, we have an explosion in the number of mega churches in America, and we have a real decline in the number of Christians in America. It’s interesting. We have a number of big churches growing, but the number of Christians has declined by 20% in the last 20 years. 20 years ago, 85% of Americans profess to be Christians, today’s 65%, so is decline going and yet the number of mega church’s exploding.

If you took a guy out in the country that has a church of 20 people and you said we have just decided you’re the pastor of our new church, is 70,000, we did new pastor in our mega church, you’re going to now have 70,000, which pastor of 20 would not turn that down to go take it? Because this is success. I’ve gone from 20 to 70, that’s success because it’s bigger. And we’re always seeing things in terms of moving bigger. We do the same thing when we have revival of crusades.

We want a lot of people in there. If we took $10,000 out of the mission fund and gave it to hold a crusade and I don’t know, Australia, and four people showed up, we go, that was a waste of money. $10,000 and four people showed up! See we were measuring things by how many are there.

Quantity Over Quantity

And I’ve had many before, I had a meeting in Arizona one time where the six people showed up to the meeting. What’s that do for your ego? Now, I don’t really know. I don’t really care because one of the guys who showed up later became one of the most effective state senators in Arizona as a result of that meeting.

It felt like God called him to run. And see Jesus with 12 disciples change the world. It’s not how many you have, is the quality of what you do, and you’re able to pour in from that quality.

And so the mentality of bigger is better, something we got to get over, Jesus had huge crowds. We know that from the way that he fed 1,000s, fed 5,000 men, not counting women and children, had huge crowds, the crowd did not change the world, it was a 12 guys he spent time with that change the world. Those are the guys they invested into and poured into, it’s the quality of what’s there. It’s not the amount of what’s there. And so we’re going to talk a little bit more about this and what it means to revivals.

But what happens if you have a crowd, it shifts responsibility away from the individual, if I’m part of 10,000, somebody else who can take care of it. If I’m one of five in the church, I’m going to have to do it. And so it changes the whole mentality when you’re part of a larger crowd.

As a result of that, if you look at where we are in the world today, there’s 7.5 billion people in the world today. The dominant religions in the world, 32% of the world is Christian, you have 21% that’s Muslim, you have 14% that’s Hindu, and 6%, that’s Buddhists.

Now, how did that 7.5 billion? W as Christians have been working the world for a long time to bring people to Christ. We’re so serious about this now that we find professionals who do this on a regular basis. I mean, we pay for pastors, and for missionaries, and for evangelists to bring the gospel to people all over the world, and we have skyrocketed.

Discipling the World

At the time of the Founding Fathers, we were way down number two on the list, Muslims were by far the largest group in the world. We’ve now surpassed Muslims. Christianity is by far the largest religion in the world. So we’ve put a lot of time and effort into doing that. And we’ve done that for 2,000 years and we’re now at 32% of the world. But let me suggest something that might be a little unusual in thinking.

Let’s go to the Great Commission, which essentially at its essence, is everyone reach one, go make a disciple. If we were to take that seriously, and if we were to say each one has to reach one, then of the 7.5 billion in the world, we have 32% that are Christians.

Let’s just say that every one of us said, you know, my only objective for next year is to reach one person and disciple one person, that’s all I’m going to do, if 32% of the world did that in one year, we’d be 64% of the world. If we did it for two years in a row, the entire world would be Christian in two years.


Alright, friend, sorry to interrupt once again as David’s giving his presentation, but we’ve got to take a quick break. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

A Moment from the American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early 1700s, the Reverend John Wise preached that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny, and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the governed: all of which is language recognizable in the Declaration of Independence. Why?

Because in 1772, the Sons of Liberty led by founders such as Sam Adams and John Hancock, reprinted and distributed the Reverend Wise’s sermons, so four years later, much of the declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Wise. In 1926, on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed “The thoughts in the Declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Wise was saying.” Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Reverend John Wise. For more information on this and other stories, go to


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. We got more of David Barton coming up. I want to encourage you once again to visit our website at This presentation “Running to the Roar”, man, we need this right now. Here’s David Barton “Running to the Roar”.


We’ve been working for 2,000 years to get to 32%. And if we took the each one reach one, let me disciple one person this year, if every one of us just did one, said I don’t care about the numbers, I’m only going to get one this year. If I get one, oh my gosh, in two years, the whole world would be Christian. See, this is what happens when you think in big stuff, somebody else is going to do it.

Getting Down to the Individual

And that’s what happens when you get away from the crowd stuff and get down to the individuals, it puts the responsibility on us to do something. And that’s what will shift the world, and that’s what revivals are all about. So you have to act individually in a revival and you have to think locally to have a revival. So let’s go into some of the things that that deal with revival. I told you there were six things there. Let me read through and quickly in the time we’ve got left.

Number one, it requires individual and local action. We just covered that. The second thing with the revival, it’s about discipleship. We touched on this a little bit. Let’s go to the Great Commission. We know the Great Commission. Interestingly, from a Christian standpoint, between 1920 and 1960, the Christian Church in America reshaped the definition of the Great Commission.

If you remember the Great Commission, Jesus gives it to us in Matthew 28:18-20. In that passage, Jesus says, all authority in heaven and earth have been given unto me, therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the of Father and Son, the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Now, what happened between 1920 1960?

‘We took that to be an evangelism mandate. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Way back in Proverbs 10:28, we’re told that he that win souls is wise. That’s what we’re supposed to be doing. But that’s not what the Great Commission is. It’s not about go out and get everyone converted.

The Great Commission says you teach them everything I have taught you. That’s discipleship. And by the way, he didn’t say that to the church. He said that to all of his followers who are gathered around him there. You guys, every one of you, go reach somebody. And so discipleship is really what the Great Commission is about. Discipleship is what will change things.

Jesus Had a Whole Teaching

And if you do discipleship, internationally, if we were to teach people everything that Jesus taught us, we wouldn’t be just saying, hey, follow me in the sinner’s prayer. We’d say, hey, do you remember what Jesus said about no fault divorce, and about the definition of marriage? Because Jesus had a whole teaching.

It offended even Peter. Peter said, Lord, that’s a hard teachings. He said, Moses allowed us to have a bill of divorcement. We get to decide our wife for any reason. We had no fault divorce. Jesus said, yeah, but it wasn’t that way from the beginning.

At the beginning, God put them together male and female, so whatever God has joined together, let no man put asunder. You can’t have no fault divorce. Peter said that’s a hard teaching. Yes, welcome to discipleship. That’s what discipleship is about, changing the way you think and the way you act, going countercultural, if you will.

Remember, also, Jesus had so many economic teachings and Luke 19 talks about how you reward profit makers, we would call this the capital gains tax. Jesus is anti-capital gains tax. Matthew 20 talks about his opposition to minimum wage, and if built employer contracts.

In John 8, particularly verse 12, he talks about the right to confront your accuser in a legal process and procedure. These are all teachings of Jesus. This is what he was teaching his disciples. If we were to teach everything, and that’s what the Great Commission says, teach everything that I’m teaching you, the Great Commission, we be teaching people how to think.

See the problem we have right now, only 6% of Americans have a biblical worldview. We don’t know how to think about criminal justice. We don’t know how to think about economics. We don’t know how to think about so many things that Jesus talked about, because we focus the gospel down to just conversion.

What is Happening in Our Schools

That’s a starting point, that’s not a finish point. That’s where you start. You got a long way to go after you get there and that’s why it takes everybody discipling someone. So revival occurs when you start really focusing on discipleship. So that’s the second thing.

The third thing is it’s practical, and part of that is what we just covered. The things that Jesus covered, now, I throw all these up, because these are all been in the news in the last 24 months. They’re going to be in the news a whole lot more for the next 24 months. We should as Christians be able to put a Bible verse to every one of those issues, because there are Bible verses I can name right now for every one of them.

We need to know how to help people understand how practical God’s word is. You see that headline right there? Here’s what God’s word says about that headline. You see what’s happening here in the schools? Here’s what God says about this particular issue. And it’s not just fine God, it’s help people learn how to think, help them change their mind, because that’s what brings revival about.

Do you know, be careful how I say this. In the first the Second Great Awakening, there was not the Arminian theology we have now, everybody was Calvinist. Which means we’re not into evangelism, because if you’re going to get saved, God’s going to save you; if you’re not getting saved, you’re not going to get saved. So what were the first two revivals about?

About how to live a Christian life. What Whitfield did was tell you how to live a Christian life, because God’s going to get you saved if you’re supposed to be saved. That was a Calvinist view.

So it was not the Arminian view that we have now. The revivals were about helping people live out their faith on a day to day basis. Here’s what your family will look like. Here’s what your business will look like.

The Great Awakenings

Here’s what you need to do to end slavery. Slavery is a bad… All these specific things that came out of the revival, so that’s part of it. That’s again, going back to what Jesus said.

And I’ll point out, it’s an interesting thing. Jesus only mentioned the word church three times. He mentioned the word Kingdom 141 times. Jesus wasn’t into build in the church, he was into building the Kingdom. And that’s the way you think and the way you act etc. So that’s a different viewpoint. So that’s the third thing.

The fourth thing I’ll point out is change occurs slowly. If you look at the history of revivals across America, take that first Great Awakening. Do you know the first Great Awakening ran 1730-1770? 40 years long. The second Great Awakening, it ran from 1801-1878, 77 years. You could have been born in 1802 and died in 1877, been 75 years old and never knew that your whole life was lived in a revival.

You wouldn’t recognize the revival because it’s just daily life to you. See these things spanned decades. If you take the turn of the century revivals, they went from about 1818-1910.

These things last decades. Which what that means is with revivals, not only do they span decades, but most people didn’t know they were in a revival when they were happening. It was usually historians 30 years later that said, I think that may have been a revival.

At the time it was going on, nobody knew was revival, didn’t look like them, because they’re going from day to day. It’s usually historians decades later who pointed back and said, I think that was revival. Let’s call that the first Great Awakening. I wouldn’t call that when it was happening, we call it that now.

So that’s the other characteristic about revival. So that’s why I think we may be in one right now. I think I can show statistics that would indicate we’ve been in a revival probably for 15 years. But it doesn’t feel like it.

Are We Really in Revival?

Anybody feel like this revival now? No, not after election night. You know, not after what’s gone on the last five, six weeks. Doesn’t feel. Yeah, but that’s pretty characteristic of what happens with revivals, and again, historically.

So revival, historically, it’s a process, it’s not an event. And that’s the difficulty we have with revivals. We think there’s going to be an event where everything turns. It’s not. It’s a process. It’s like watching your kids grow. You don’t recognize, your pants are too short. Where’d that come from? He didn’t see him grow day by day by day.

But suddenly, every once while you get an indication that something’s changed: that you mark them on the door, and they’re taller than they were last time you marked it. See you don’t see that daily growth, you don’t see that daily change. You’re too close to it, but it happens and so that’s where revival usually go. So change occurs slowly.

The fifth thing I’d point to is that has to be transgenerational. Let me take you back to the Bible. In Judges 13, what you have in Judges 13 is Israel is under the oppression of the Philistines. Their lifestyle is all goofed up. They can’t worship at the temple. They can’t live the way God wants them to.

They’re under the oppression of Philistines. And they pray and they cry out for God, deliver us. We need revival, if you will. We need a change.

We’ve got to have something different happened to us. And in verse 5, God answers that prayer. And what we’re told in verse 5 was an angel came from heaven. He went to Manoah and he said Manoah, your wife is going to get pregnant. And when that kid grows up, he’s going to be the national deliver. I got to wait another 20 years to get my prayer answered? Yeah.

A New Generation

But see what God did was he sent them a new generation to do something different than the old generation. That’s why it revival spanned decades. It goes across generations. And so this guy named Samson comes along and delivers the Israelites from the Philistines. So I think, transgenerational interesting thing we know right now is statistics.

If you look at prolife issues in America, this last year, America became 51% prolife, we’re finally at least half America is prolife. That’s really good. However, if you look at the next generation, 72% of them are prolife. Now, that’s really weird, because we’re told in Luke 6:40, that every student when he’s fully trained will be like his teacher.

How did they get 20 points more prolife than all the people that teach them? How do they get 20 points more prolife from their parents than their teachers and their…?

By the way, only 19% of young people support abortion on demand. So when these guys get control, we’re not going to have to worry about abortion on demand anymore, we’ll see a change. Now you will notice all the guys leading the nation right now are still the really old guys, the white haired guys like me, and much older.

They’re still pro-abortion. The upcoming generation is out there. But we’re not teaching the upcoming generation how to be disciples of Jesus, even civil government, how to get engaged in that process, how they can make policy changes. We’ve got to teach them for that as well. We got to train them for every aspect of life.


Alright, friends, quick break, we’re listening to David Barton’s presentation just a couple of days ago, and we will pick up where we left off before this break. So stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

The American Story

Hey guys, we want to let you know about our new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” And yet what we see through history and certainly is evident in America, is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them.

The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to and check out “The American Story”.


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. We’re going to dive right back in. Here’s David Barton on “Running to the Roar”.


The next generation coming up thinks wrong in so many areas right now. I mean, socialism, 75% of college students think socialism is the way to go, 69% of Millennials, you have 42% of all Americans. There is no example of history and 5800 years where socialism has produced prosperity and freedom. Not a single example.

Socialism Has NEVER Worked

It doesn’t exist. But they don’t know that. That’s not… See, that history is being taken out and they’re getting indoctrination instead.

And so Millennials and GenZs there’s so many areas and moral areas, marriage, things like that, they’re not right on that because nobody has discipled them on that, nobody has taken them aside and help them think through it. But in this area, God has put it in their hearts. There’s something, he’s sending a new generation, and I will tell you, I’ve never been as encouraged in my life as I am every summer when we do leadership training programs for 18 to 25 years.

I’ve never seen people recognize truth faster, embrace it more fiercely than the generation we got coming now. And once they embrace that truth, they become warriors for it in a way that our generation has not been word for it. I love what I say what young people. But you have to be able to get to them, create a relationship with them, and help them understand what truth is. And then once they do, they love it. They embrace it. They recognize that. Their heart tends to know what it is.

So what’s happening here, see, and so going back to the Great Awakening, where you have this transgenerational thing, remember I told you earlier that Samuel Cooper was a big guy up in the Boston area revival up there? It’s interesting that there was a young man who kept hanging around him who he kept hanging around with.

He kind of took this young man under his arm and spent time with him and helped him think through things and helped him understand the scriptures, and helped him put pieces together. And the young man that he mentored is a guy named John Quincy Adams. Now, you may recognize that name, who had a massive, massive effect on the nation as president, as political stuff, what he did anti-slavery everything else, but he was mentored by one guy who spent time with him.

Gilbert Tennent

In the same way, if you look at Gilbert Tennent, it tells you what he did around Philadelphia. There was a young man that hung around him that he spent time with. He would spend time with that young man, helping him think through issues and ask him questions and helping him put things together.

That young man was a guy named Benjamin Rush, who is considered one of the three most significant Founding Fathers in American history. He’s right up there with George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Benjamin Rush. He started the first Bible Society. He started the Sunday School Movement.

He started the Abolition Movement in America. Just unbelievable what the guy did. He was mentored by an individual from the older generation who reached out and touched him as a young man and helped him think right.

You have the same thing when you look at Samuel Davis. Samuel Davis is considered the greatest pulpit orator in American history. There was no one who is better at speaking and delivering a message verbally than this man. And he had this kid that hung around with him and just never missed a service, and was always with him.

He spent time with this kid and that kid grew up and he’s a kid named Patrick Henry. I wonder where Patrick Henry learned to be the greatest orator in American history. Because he studied at the feet of the greatest pulpit orator in American history.

See, all these kids took it into politics, but they learned it from someone else and they’re the ones who have shaped the nation, because we disciple the next generation, how to think and how to get involved in these areas. And so that’s what we have to do with all this generations. We’re going to have to do the same thing, you have to be transgenerational.

 Time to Disciple Someone

I’m going to encourage you, whatever your age, you find someone younger than you are, and you start investing your life into them. Start pouring your life into someone younger. Help them think through everything that goes on, find out what the issues are around them, in their life, at their school, everything else. You help them put the pieces together, help them start thinking through because they’re not going to get it in the culture we’ve got today.

Give you another example real quickly. John Quincy Adams talks about him. John Quincy Adams, the American Revolution is going on. At 8 years old, he had his musket out with Massachusetts Minutemen at the age of 8.

When he was 14 years old. He was sent by Congress to the court of Catherine the Great in Russian, an ambassadorial position, serving with the embassy there 14 years old because he spoke six languages, and he was the official translator for the American ambassador in Russia.

You also had him at 16 years old being sent to arrange the peace negotiations to end the American Revolution. At 16, Congress sends him to set up the peace negotiations that happen in Paris between the Americans and the British. Then after that, he gets very involved in politics.

He served under George Washington’s diplomat when he was 21 years old. Washington said he’s the best diplomat we have in any location. While he served as a diplomat under his father and then he became a US Senator under Thomas Jefferson.

And then for the fourth president, he went back to being a diplomat for President James Madison. He actually ended the war of 1812. For the fifth president, he became the Secretary of State and then he became our sixth president. So he’s already spent a lifetime in politics and had a huge impact, just as a young man.

Run To The Roar, Part 3 – Time For A New Mindset


Alright, friends, that is the conclusion of our program for today, but not the conclusion to David Barton’s presentation on “Running to the Roar”. We’re out of time for today, so we’ll pick up the rest of that presentation tomorrow. There’s just a little bit left and then we’re going to have some good news for you as well.

So that’s Good News Friday tomorrow. Hope that you have enjoyed today’s program. We sure appreciate you listening, and we appreciate your donations.

Go to today, and make those donations that allows us to amplify this voice of truth here on the program. And then also spread the good news. Get the links from the program and share that with your friends and family on whatever social media you still have access to, if you haven’t been silenced yet. But wherever you can get the news out there, share with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.