School Shooting Prevention, Encourage Your Local School With Today’s Message: Tim Wildmon will be with us from American Family Association. We’re going to be talking about some responses to the shootings that have happened in schools recently. We’ll be discussing not just the emotional responses, but some logical responses as well to prevent or minimize school shootings in the future.  We also discuss the importance of proclaiming biblical truth and reminding kids why we believe what we believe.

Air Date: 03/05/2018

Guest: Tim Wildmon

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


Listen:

Download: Click Here

Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we talk about the day’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and other things in the culture. We’re always looking at it from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

Today we’re here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton’s with us, he’s a national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

You can find out more about us and the program at WallBuildersLive.com – that’s our radio site. You can get a list of our stations across the country and also even get some of our archives of programs from the last few weeks. And then it WallBuilders.com, our main website, there is a wealth of information. All kinds of tools from articles, to books, and DVDs, and different things you can use to equip and empower your family to understand what it really means to be a good citizen. Also, you can share it with your friends and family and we encourage you to go to our Facebook page to do the same thing.

So, David, Tim, later in the program we’ve got another Tim with us. Tim Wildmon will be with us from American Family Association. And we’re going to be talking about some responses to the shooting that took place in Florida at the school there. And not just emotional responses – actually some logical responses to, “Hey, how do you prevent this kind of thing or at least minimize this kind of thing in the future?”

Looking At Logical Responses

David:

Rick, you mentioned the school shooting in Florida. So, we’re focused on that in the news. Can you remember previous school shootings? You start thinking of school shootings, what else do you have.

Tim:

Well, the first one I remember is Columbine.

David:

Alright.

Rick:

Yeah.   

Tim:

I know there were– and saying remember–certainly there’s others. Sandy Hook is another school shooting. My recollection in just reading and hearing, I don’t know if I was even alive, but wasn’t there a shooter on the tower down at the University of Texas? Um–

David:

University of Texas in the ‘60s, yep.

Tim:

So that’s not a school shooting, but for school shootings I’m about running out.

David:

Well, you had the Amish school, remember, that the kids that were shot.

Tim:

That’s right.

David:

At that Amish school.

Tim:

That’s right.

David:

So, you’ve had some school shootings. Mass shootings are pretty– you’ve got one in 1949. I think 13 were killed in the university tower in 1968 though. And once you get past that you have to really jump forward. You’ve got ‘49, you’ve got ‘68, and then you jump like to 1982. So, they were really infrequent.

Major Jump in Shootings

David:

But since 1982, if you define a mass shooting – not just a school shooting, but a mass shooting as four to six people, you’re averaging one every 200 days since the 1980s. So, you have a lot more mass shootings. You didn’t have many before then.

By the way, I will point out that in 1980 is when the Supreme Court said, “You cannot let students see the Ten Commandments because if they see them they might read them. If they read them they might respect them. If they respect them they might obey them. Things like ‘don’t kill’, so we can’t let you see things like ‘don’t kill.’”

But nonetheless, 82 is what starts this kind of modern mass shooting thing that we have. Which it was not long after we said, “Don’t let kids see rights and wrongs like Ten Commandments.”

But Columbine really is kind of the first really big notable school shooting that you have. And you look at the aftermath of what happened in Columbine. I want to go back and read something that the school board of Columbine– the Columbine School Board put this out not long after the shooting. Because they were searching for meaning, you had all these kids that were killed.

And that’s the same tragedy that’s going on in Florida. And they’re saying, “How do we solve this?” Of course the way we solve it today is we have CNN have a town hall on how we need gun control laws, and if we get gun control laws, we can solve this.

Learning From Columbine

David:

Let’s go back to this first mass modern school shooting with Columbine and see if we’ve done any good with implementing their recommendations. Here’s the letter from them, they said, “As we seek the ‘why’ behind this infamous event, we must find answers beyond the easy and the obvious. How weapons become used for outlaw purposes is assuredly a relevant issue. Yet our society’s real problem is how human behavior sinks to utter and depraved indifference to the sanctity of life. As our country promotes academic literacy we must promote moral literacy as well.–”

Tim:

Wow.

David:

“–Our tragedy is but the latest, albeit the most terrifying and costly, of a steadily escalating series of schoolhouse horrors that have swept the nation. The senseless brutality of these calamities clearly reveal that a dangerous subculture of amoral violence has taken hold among many of our youth.–” Bingo. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. “A senseless subculture of amoral” – that is no morals – “violence has taken hold among many of our youth. We must remember, respect, and unashamedly, take pride in the fact that our schools, like our country, found their origin and draw their strength from the faith based morality that is at the heart of our national character.

Today our schools have become so fearful of affirming one religion or value over another that they have banished them all. In doing so they have abdicated their historic role in the moral formation of youth and thereby alienating themselves from our people’s deep spiritual sensibilities.” Now that was Columbine’s solution to how you stop school shootings.

Tim:

Sounds like the bottom line is they’re promoting we need to get back a moral value that comes from beyond us. It’s not subjective, how we feel, how we think, it’s something that has a God awareness, right, a God consciousness, and we need this value of life restored is essentially, I think, what I heard you read was their suggestion.

Which certainly is what we would all agree on this program is, “Yeah, we need kids that recognize there is a value of life, that life is significant.” Which certainly abortion, Planned Parenthood, undermines this whole argument where “No, no, no, life is just something that if it’s inconvenient, if it’s in your way, if this unborn child’s in your way, you can just murder it and make your life more convenient.

A Very Different Set of Values

Tim:

So, certainly we are promoting a very different set of values that undermines the value of life. But actually, I just recently had a debate with a college student related to this moral values and promoting moral values in school. And the argument was that values are subjective, and we shouldn’t impose our values on someone else, and everybody should be able to determine values for themselves. And of course there’s so much inconsistency in that logic because if everybody determines value for themselves, you can never say what a school shooter did was wrong because that’s your personal opinion, that’s just what you believe, that’s just what’s true for you. What was true for the shooter is the shooter was doing what was right in his or her eyes.

And therefore, subjectively, you can’t say what they did was wrong because they thought it was right. So, you have this dog chasing the tail and ultimately never comes to the right conclusion.

But Columbine, absolutely what they said is the solution is we need God, we need a value system and one that supports the value of life.

David:

And it’s significant that they said, “That was the traditional role of schools that they taught moral literacy as well as civic literacy and that they promoted spiritual values.” And I thought it was significant they said, “Look, this is going to keep happening if we don’t get back to doing what schools are supposed to do and that is teach not just academics, but also morals which is based on a spiritual responsibility.” And they actually noted that we’re getting to the point – and this is a 1999 – they said, “We’re getting to the point where we’re scared to teach any religion. So, rather than teaching we banish them all.”

Well, here we are basically 30 years later, or 29 years later, and yeah, that’s pretty much right. We’ve banished all religion.

No Objective Truth

Tim:

And by the way, banishing all means there can be no objective truth – it has to be subjective is the only way you can arrive at the conclusion of what is right and wrong. Well, it’s whatever you think, however you feel, whatever seems good to you – that’s what you should do. And if we’re promoting subjective reality, subjective truth, that it’s always up to an individual, then you’re going to be hard pressed to say, “This is wrong.” Why? “Well, that’s just your opinion.” No, n,o no, this is wrong because this is immoral behavior, this is bad behavior.

And this is where faith plays such a vital role because it’s an objective standard that’s outside of us that we can say, “No, no, no, God said it’s wrong and that’s why it’s wrong. This isn’t just my feeling and opinion.” The Bible says, “Thou shalt not murder”, right. The Bible says, “Don’t kill, don’t take innocent life.”

And so this is why we hold that position. It’s not just whatever you think and whatever you feel. No, there is rights and wrongs and this is what it looks like.

Rick:

So, without that objective standard it’s anything goes, everything’s okay, it’s totally up to the individual to decide right and wrong. So, if we re-interject that objective standard, if we start to insert that back into our consciousness, then we get a common concept of what is right and wrong. And certainly the idea that you shouldn’t murder – it’s in our laws, it should be reflected in what we teach our kids as well.

Tim Wildmon from American Family Association is going to be with us when we come back from the break talking about a movement that folks at home can be a part of. It is going to be easy thing to be part of, but it can help create a national tide back toward those objective truth. Stay with us, folks. Tim Wildmon our guest today on WallBuilders Live.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. After the final victory at Yorktown the Continental Army awaited the outcome of peace negotiations with Great Britain.

Pastor Israel Evans, a chaplain in the army, proposed to George Washington that they build a structure where church services can be held during the months of waiting. Washington approved the plan and urges officers to ensure that the soldiers attend that service.

Pastor Evans further knew if we were to secure the liberties they had fought for, sound education would be crucial.

He declared, “Every parent and every friend to the freedom of his country ought to be attentive to the improvement of our youth and the principles of freedom and good government. And then the people will stand fast in their liberty for a long time.” Our schools today need to return to teaching the principles of freedom and good government in order for America to survive and prosper. For more information about Pastor Israel Evans and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com

Patriot Academy

Have you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America? We’re looking around for leaders of principle to step up and too often no one is there. God is raising up a generation of young leaders with a passion for impacting the world around them. They’re crying out for the mentorship and leadership training they need. Patriot Academy was created to meet that need. Patriot Academy graduates now serve in state capitals around America, in the halls of Congress, in business, in the film industry, in the pulpit, in every area of the culture. They’re leading effectively and impacting the world around them.

Patriot Academy is now expanding across the nation and now is your chance to experience this life changing week that trains champions to change the world. Visit PatriotAcademy.com for dates and locations. Our core program is still for young leaders 16 to 25 years old, but we also now have a citizen track for adults. So, visit the website today to learn more. Help us fill the void of leadership in America. Join us in training champions to change the world at PatriotAcademy.com.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here at WallBuilders Live. Our good friend from American family association is back with us, Tim Wildmon. Tim, good to have you back, bro.

Tim Wildmon:

Hey, Rick, good to be back with you, man.

Rick:

I saw your email and post on this idea to get schools to put up a very basic idea, “You shall not murder.” This is fantastic. So, we’re restoring those basic commandments that   made our culture safer, and more friendly, and all of those things, for centuries. You’re suggesting we should go back to that.

Is Posting the Ten Commandments Unconstitutional?

Tim:

Well, we can argue all day with the liberals about whether teaching the Ten Commandments or posting the Ten Commandments in school is unconstitutional or not. I don’t think it is, but liberals would argue that it is. But nobody can argue with the facts as David Barton wrote so well so many years ago – To Pray or Not To Pray – that once we remove God and the Ten Commandments from the schools of America, and I’m talking the public schools, the social ills that have come our way are enormous–

Rick:

— and innumerable almost. You can go right down the list, you’ve got his document there. So, there is a cause and effect for removing the moral restraints from young people that they get from the Ten Commandments, from God. That’s just fact. And that’s all of us – not just young people – that’s all of us. If we remove the Ten Commandments from our heart, and we don’t respect God’s authority, then we do things that are terrible.

We already have enough trouble as Christians fleeing sin even with the Holy Spirit living in our lives. You remove God and the moral restraints from society, then you end up with kids going into schools and shooting their classmates.

Rick:

Yeah, and it’s not rocket science, is it? It is pretty simple when say to kids for 10-12 years, when you say to them, “There is no right or wrong. There is no God.–”

Tim Wildmon:

Right.

“–Whatever is right in your own eyes, go for it.”

Tim Wildmon:

Yes.

Cause and Effect

Rick:

“And, oh by the way, that kid you’re sitting next to over there – they’re just a pile of atoms, they’re just an accident and randomly gathered protoplasm.” You say “cause and effect” well, that kind of a cause is going to have an effect that is not pretty and not good for the culture. Whenever you say to kids, “Life doesn’t have value and you design for yourself what right and wrong is.”, we’re seeing the result of that here.

Tim:

Yeah, we’ve always had violence in the world since the beginning of time and that will go on. It’s just how much of it–

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim Wildmon:

–are you going to have and where are you going to have it? And we didn’t have these kinds of problems, as many baby boomers can attest, in America’s public schools back in the ‘40s, ‘50s, ‘60s, even ‘70s – we didn’t have these kinds of problems. And with gangs, and drugs, and dropouts, and illegitimacy, children being born out of wedlock, breakdown of families, we just didn’t have these kinds of problems and certainly didn’t have them in the schools. The old saying, “You get in trouble at school with the principal, well you’re going to get a double whammy when you got home.” And that’s how baby boomers were raised. That’s just not the case anymore, sadly.

We want to emphasize, we want to take this moment as a teaching moment. In light of what’s going on all this gun control hysteria that’s out there we want to say, “Hey, let’s talk about heart control, alright.”

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim Wildmon:

“–let’s talk about the behavior control.” And if God Almighty considers “You shall not murder” to be one of the top 10, one of the Ten Commandments, then certainly we need to heed that and teach our children.

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim Wildmon:

That, of course, Jesus expanded on that – you shouldn’t hate in your heart either, that’s murder as well, spiritually. But certainly we to teach our kids that they need to restrain from violence, including murder.

Letter To Schools

Rick:

Tim, if you don’t mind I’m going to read a couple of parts of this open letter you’ve got–

Tim Wildmon:

Yeah.

Rick:

–to the schools that we’re encouraging people to add their name to. It’s short and sweet – it’s right to the point. Says, “The American Family Association is asking every school in the country to put this statement on their school marquee or school sign for one week. Very simple – You shall not murder. While the country is discussing gun control laws we think our young people should also be reminded that innocent life, human life, is precious. Murder is against the law in every state and these four words also emphasize that it’s morally wrong.”

Now, Tim, you make the point you’re simply reinforcing something that’s against the law in every single state. So, you’re literally reinforcing and backing up what is the law in all of our communities. And then you’re using the tool that schools typically use and that’s what you say in the last paragraph – schools regularly use words to encourage and discourage behavior.

We tell students, “Say ‘no’ to bullying”, “Don’t text and drive”, “Say ‘no’ to drugs”. “In light of the increasing violence in our schools let’s send the clear message, You shall not murder. This is the sixth of the Ten Commandments.”

Common sense. This just makes sense. We’re reinforcing and encouraging young people to be thinking about the value of life and how wrong it is to take that life.

Who Can Disagree With That?

Tim Wildmon:

Who can disagree with that?

Rick:

Right.

Tim Wildmon:

What you just read.

Rick:

Right.

Tim Wildmon:

I mean, really, – liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever, who can disagree with that? The only reason you would disagree with teaching kids that murder is wrong is because you hate Christianity so much that you don’t want anything from the Bible to be taught to children. And I would just say not everything– we teach them don’t steal, don’t we? That’s also in the Bible.

So, just because something’s in the Scripture doesn’t mean that we can’t teach it in the schools and to our children. Because the liberals are saying in the name of separation of church and state. Well, I just debunked– as you have– just debunked that argument.

Rick:

Yeah, no doubt. And you’ve probably seen it, but I just love this. There’s a lady in the Florida legislature, Democrat by the way, she said, “God isn’t Republican, He’s not Democrat, He’s not black, He’s not white, He is the light and our schools need light in them like never before.” That’s Representative Kimberly Daniels there in the Florida House.

Tim Wildmon:

Amen. I agree with that Democrat.

Rick:

Isn’t that powerful?

Agreeing With a Democrat

Tim Wildmon:

Yeah, that’s one of the rare times that I’ve agreed with a Democrat, but I agree with her on the right.

Rick:

I know.

Tim Wildmon:

100% right there.

Rick:

It’s great. And the cool thing is she’s coming together with some of the Republicans there and Representative Mel Ponders and some others. And do you remember– you guys may still do this and you may have already seen the bill, but they’re doing a bill to require the national motto, “In God We Trust” be on every campus.

Tim Wildmon:

Amen.

Rick:

And you guys have been doing that for years.

Tim Wildmon:

Yes.

Rick:

In fact, I remember buying your posters, Tim, 20 years ago.

Tim Wildmon:

Yeah.

Tim:

To put in every campus in my legislative district back when I was in the house. So, just acknowledging there is a God makes a kid act differently because you know there’s consequences for your actions.

Tim Wildmon:

Exactly. There’s something to be said for God fearing. You hear that expression, the oldtimers use that – God fearing. Well, there’s a reason for that. God is to be feared in the sense that He gives us requirements for how we should live. And if we don’t live that way, we displease Him, or we dishonor him.

We Want to Teach Kids to be God Fearing

Tim Wildmon:

So, we want to teach kids to be God fearing. God says, “Thou shalt not–” if you use King James English– “murder.” And so we want kids to have to think about that and also we want to start a national conversation along these lines for getting morality back into schools.

Tim:

Let’s talk action real quick before I let you go, Tim. So, this letter folks can take it off the website there at AFA.net and we’ll have a link, make it easy for people to get directly to this particular one. But they could take this letter, we want them to send it to their school board member, school administrators–

Tim Wildmon:

Yes.

Rick:

–contact them and ask them to do this. And then of course share this and get your friends and family doing the same thing. Do it through Twitter and Facebook. Make a picture of what you’ve got there with the number six–

Tim Wildmon:

Yeah.

Rick:

–and let’s make this a national movement to remind our culture.

Tim Wildmon:

Go to AFA.net, you can read the letter to America’s schools, open letter to America’s schools. AFA.net, AFA.net and it’s hashtag #Number6 for those on Twitter or social media – hashtag #Number6, the sixth commandment. Let’s get this thing going. And it doesn’t matter – Christian schools, private schools, whatever the case may be. Certainly public schools – we’d love to see this happen on marquees all over the country.

Rick:

It’s great stuff, Tim Wildmon. God bless you guys. Keep up the great work. Thanks for your time today.

Thank you, Rick. Appreciate it.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “As incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you’ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Tim Wildmon from American Family Association for joining us today as well. We’re back with David and Tim Barton now.

Guys this is pretty simple. It’s basic common sense. I think Wildmon’s right – who could be against this?

David:

Well, it’s a strange thing that what we have in civil law says “Don’t murder”. Now, that comes out of the Bible. So, do we avoid mentioning “don’t murder” because it has a Biblical basis? How crazy is that? How bigoted and biased do you have to be to say, “We don’t want you telling kids ‘don’t murder’ because that is a Bible verse.”

Use The Command But Not the Bible?

Tim:

Well, by the way that’s also in all 50 states as law.

David:

** in all 50 states because of the Bible–

Tim:

Right.

David:

–but they won’t acknowledge that.

Tim:

Well, yeah. So, the argument is, “Well, wait a second. So, tell kids ‘Don’t murder’ just don’t use the Bible to tell them.” Is what secular people would argue.

David:

And I would argue that’s plagiarism. Because you’re now having me cite a source without giving the origin of that source and if I did that in a paper you would accuse me of plagiarism.

Tim:

Well, and yeah, but just for the fun discussion. So, the other side, I’ll be devil’s advocate, the other side would argue, “Yeah, but that’s something all societies and all culture agree that murder is wrong.”

David:

I would say go to North Africa, and look right now, and see how murder is doing in North Africa. Particularly in Islamic cultures where that is part of the way you politically subjugated group. And by the way, while you’re at it, let’s notice that there are 40 million people currently in slavery today and those are the same nations that have no respect for don’t murder. I take you all over the world and that’s a common thing in the world to ignore that command.

Tim:

Right. So, seculars would argue that there are basic traditional values, that are really American values, that are just human values. It’s almost like arguing that all kids are basically good, and they’re not sinful, and they don’t have a sinful human nature – “Kids are good. No, humans are good. We have this common shared value of we love people and everybody knows murder is wrong.” Well, wrong, that’s not a human value, that’s not human nature, it’s not a shared world value.

Not A Shared Common Value

Tim:

As you mentioned, look at some of these Islamic nations and they don’t think it’s wrong to throw homosexuals off the rooftop, they don’t think it’s wrong to behead Christians, they don’t think murder is wrong – that’s not a common shared value in humanity. That is a value that is actually more unique to Christian cultures, specifically in America. That came from a Judeo Christian value system that, really, the Ten Commandments is the basis of all moral laws in the western culture, right, Western Hemisphere.

And so there’s no doubt this is from the Bible. But, as we can imagine, there’d be a lot of people that would protest, “How dare you put a Bible verse on a school marquee. You can’t promote religion.” And yet without religion you have no basis of morality.

David:

Well, think what the culture would be like today if we taught every student simple axioms like “Love your neighbor like you love yourself,” “Do to others what you want to be done to you.”

Tim:

Well, and let me throw out– So, you’re saying what if we taught them the logical outcome we’re talking about is if students not just learn the axiom, but learn to apply the axiom.

David:

Learn to apply it and then somebody said, “Oh, you can’t teach them to be kind to others because that comes out of the Bible.” Ummm, right, it does. So, you’re going to say that if it’s good for the culture we’re going to ignore it if it comes out of the Bible. Which is such, again, such a it’s a suicidal position. You are you’re leading the nation into self suicide which is a crazy thing. But–

What We Tell Kids

Rick:

Well, just think, David, if you had as many times– I don’t know what the number is, but how many impressions on a kid do they see “don’t text and drive”–

David:

Right.

Rick:

–through the course of our various campaigns within the school, outside the school.

David:

Right.

Rick:

If you had “treat your neighbor as yourself”, “love your neighbor as yourself”, as often as that, imagine the difference.

David:

Well, as Tim said, there is an aspect of being God fearing that we really need to bring back. “Hey, kids, you know what? If you murder someone it’s a bad deal, but you’re going to stand before God and have to answer to Him for that. You probably don’t want to murder somebody.”

Tim:

And let me point out – we are absolutely encouraging schools to put this in their marquee, but it’d be really hypocritical of us to tell the schools, “You should be promoting values” that we’re not, perhaps, promoting in our own home.

Rick:

Right.

Tim:

And this is really– it’s not the school’s job specifically to teach morality. That really parents are supposed to help instill that. Certainly we want the schools to uphold the common value system that we share, but this really ought to be time for parents, grandparents, let’s have these conversations with our kids, our grandkids. And talk to them about moral behavior, about what the Bible teaches about these rights and wrongs. We’ve got to help instill this in our kids and grandkids.

Rick:

Yes, of course. It’s not the school’s responsibility alone. We want them teaching these things, they need to teach these things, but it’s got to be the schools, it’s got to be the government, it’s got to be the family, it’s got to come from the entire culture, just like David and Barnum point out in the U-Turn book. We’ve got to once again have that common morality taught through all of these institutions. And schools have not done it at all for decades and we’re seeing the results.

School Shooting Prevention, Encourage Your Local School With Today’s Message

Rick:

Folks, you can get a link to this article from American Family Association so you can share it with your friends and family, get it on Facebook, get it out there, let’s get the school boards to do exactly this. You can get more at our website WallBuildersLive.com and also WallBuilders.com. We appreciate you listening to WallBuilders Live.