School Spends Half A Million To Erase George Washington: A California school spending $600K to cover up a mural of George Washington, Father of the County, because it could be offensive. Does everyone in California support this schools venture? Tune in now to find out.

Air Date: 07/31/2019

Guest: Jack Hibbs

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always doing that from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

 We do that so that all of us are equipped from those perspectives it gives us the right position on issues and also tells us how to take action effectively, and you can do that right there in your community right there in your backyard. You can be the one to make a difference in your hometown. 

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker and President of WallBuilders, and my name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author. 

 You can find out about all three of us at our website, 

That’s also where you can get archives of our program look back over the last few weeks and listen to some of those programs you might have missed. 

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All of that’s available right here at You might want to make just a one-time contribution, maybe a monthly contribution however you can help. We greatly appreciate our listeners who come alongside us. 

School District To Spend Half A Million Dollars To Cover Up A Mural

Guys, we’ve got a crazy story today out of California. The school district in California is going to spend over half a million dollars to cover up a mural of George Washington, father the country.

It’s apparently offensive to folks as they go to class if they see George Washington, the father of the country. 


Well, not only offensive to see the mural; the school is actually named George Washington. So it gets even more ironic and ridiculous because the image you’re covering up is where your name comes from.


What about their diplomas? OK, we can’t look at his picture as we go into the school but when they get handed their diploma, is it gonna be a trigger?


You know that’s a valid question. There’s probably going to be somebody who’s going to be triggered. There’s no doubt about it. The name is probably going to go soon. 

But what they are saying about the murals, it’s not just George Washington there are other things in there that are offensive, and we just need to get rid of this whole thing because of blah blah blah blah. 

This Is Crazy

What really is crazy, we’ve had these conversations even when you look at people who want to tear down all monuments or monuments of anybody who ever had slaves. When you start identifying people from history and saying that we’ve changed the standard of what is acceptable; from now on if you’ve ever done anything bad, you’re not allowed to have a mural up. You’re not allowed to have your portrait up, and you’re not allowed to have a statue if you ever did something bad. 

But we’re going to determine what’s bad. We really could just save some time and go wait, a second guys, let’s just start from the beginning: All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. 

We can point to bad things in every single person’s life throughout all of the world and all of history. And yet what we’ve done is said that the founding fathers are so offensive, we can’t even see a mural of them, George Washington was so bad. He had slaves.

We can’t we cannot celebrate any good thing he ever did because he’s not a good guy. It’s a very faulty system; it’s very dangerous. And yet this is what they’re doing in California in that school. It’s kind of what we see in culture. But this is where we have to help shift the culture to think and act differently.


But all of California’s not quite this wacky, right? So typically what we do here at WallBuilders Live when so the crazy happens in California, we have some wonderful pastors out there, and we try to get one of them on to make sense of it and to let us know that not everybody in California agrees with this craziness.

Of course, one of the best guys for that as Jack Hibbs, Pastor of Calvert chapel there in Chino Hills. We’ve got him on the program today. He’ll be with us when we come back from the break so stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

This Precarious Moment Book


This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book, and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now. 

Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is our godly heritage.

We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack, and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference. 

These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So, you can grab the book. This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today.

We always joke about it,  David I both always give California such a hard time here on the program because we see so many goofy things come out of California but we probably speak in California more than the rest of the country combined cause there is a lot of great people in California, a lot of great churches in California, and a lot of great pastors in California. 

One of those guys is with us right now Jack Hibbs from Calvary Chapel. I love you, brother. Thank you so much for the stand you’re taking in California. Always coming on the program and being a bright light, man. Thanks for coming back.


Hey, Rick listen; it’s because of ministries like yours, and you guys having our backs that we can stand up in this culture of California and have education and insight into what we’re standing for.  So listen, hat off to you and the team. You guys have been great to us.


We’ve seen a lot of pastors get mentored by you and others across the country that have been inspired by your leadership over the years. There have been so many tough battles that you guys have had to fight in California. Win some and lose some, and you’ve seen some really negative culture changes. Yet, you guys have stood firm. You and I were talking off-air, the Lord is blessing the churches growing there. People are hungry for truth. There’s a lot of good things happening.

There’s A Lot Of Good Things Happening


There’s a tremendous amount of great things happening. In fact, I got to tell you I’m getting e-mails from people and notes from people and comments on social media, and Rick this is one of the greatest compliments that a California church can get, I think. 

It’s when you hear people in other states, the stand that the church is taking and the impact that this church is making causes me to think that maybe I’d like to move back to California. That’s a huge compliment.

That’s a great compliment. 

The Grey Line In California Is Gone

So yes, the truth of the matter is we realized here in Southern California we’re not in heaven yet. And so our feet are on the battlefield, and our eyes are on the horizon. Again with your support and information, we’re engaged in the battle. There’s no doubt about it. The gray line, Rick, in California, is gone. You’re either on one side or the other, and it’s becoming very clear.

Well, I was thinking even as we were talking about that. Some of our listeners that may not have heard us talk before may not be familiar with it yet, or if they’re in some other part of the country, they may be thinking, oh sure, this Californian pastor’s church is growing because he’s probably just watering down the gospel and compromising on everything. 

Let me just tell our listeners – that not this guy. No, not this guy. This guy stands firm, stands for truth, preaches the truth, and just a great blessing. So we’re thrilled to have you and thrilled to have you doing what you’re doing.

David said, man, we got to get Jack on and ask him about this school out there that is going to spend like half a million dollars or something to remove a really dangerous thing for kids – a mural of George Washington.

The Mural Of George Washington


Yeah wow. We’re talking about the controversy out west here about George Washington and that school in San Francisco. I believe Rick that art went up in like 1936 by a famous illustrator. Interestingly enough, by the way, you do some research on that Russian immigrant artist. He was a socialist, a communist, and he taught at Stanford. Be that as it may, the guy had a real gift for art. If anyone would take a look at the murals that he produced they’re pretty epic.

So students began to complain that you these do these renditions of American history, they’re offensive to me, and it shows, for example, an American Indian having been slain on the battlefield and Washington apparently pointing westward for the expansion of the nation. It has these things that somebody might look at and say, Oh wow yeah the American Indian really got their lights punched out on this one. 

It’s Art

But here’s the point to this Rick: It’s called art. 

 Art always captures reality at least it’s supposed to. If a few people say well, this is offensive, and Washington was a white slave owner. If you look online, that’s the arguments that these people are putting forward. 

I guess we’re at a time Rick, where even if something happens and in life, in history, whatever it may be that; we have somehow arrived as a culture that we have to whitewash everything that is questionable or debatable or that might provoke an emotion. 

We have to remove that because we have raised a lot of flowers in the little flower pot. In a perfect greenhouse-effect, nothing of thinking or critical thinking can affect them. 

This is a tragic thing because again the art is fantastic. It has stood since 1936, but the San Francisco school district deems it as offensive. 

You can see the direction of this is Rick; we’re going through a culture where maybe all expression will be erased. It would be a grey culture, a grey society where nothing is allowed for you to ponder, to provoke, or to think or to debate.

But here we are and yup, it is tragic.

Our Heroes Are Not Perfect


Man, so many things about this. One, just from a historical perspective, I can’t think of anyone in history that we couldn’t pick something out of their life and say this was wrong because guess what we’re all depraved. We’ve all got sin in our lives., we’ve got things in our life, and our history and things we did.

There’s not a person, a hero, a founder, a champion, or whatever story you want to come up with, that we couldn’t find something in their life. 

Some times its really bad stuff. I mean, now the stuff about the MLK case coming out about the women and everything else. Well, I’m not calling for tearing down MLK’s monument. 

You Tell The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, And You Learn From It All

You can’t erase the fact that he brought about peaceful change to a world that needed that change. That is good news of what he did, and so yes we should tell the good, the bad and the ugly. That was something that I learned from Barton 20 years ago. 

You know what, you just tell the good, the bad, the ugly. 

You tell it all, and you learn from all of it. 

You learn from the good, you learn from the bad, you learn from the ugly. How are these kids going to learn about the founding of the country? About Washington and why they formed the country the way they did if we erase any image of these folks?


I love what you just said because if someone takes the time to go look at these murals, I could interpret what I see on the wall in a completely different way.

For example, the murals are extremely ethnic diverse. It’s beautiful. And it shows people of various ethnicities inventing certain things on the mural. 

They’re going to paint over that, Rick. They’re going to take that away too. 

It all started with a couple of students, from what I understand, were fed from their parents about this kind of, look at this tyranny on the wall. 

Kids for decades have been going up and down those hallways, and they’ve had no problem. 

This Is Going To Continue Until Good People Stand Up With Logic And Reason

I think this is going to continue, Rick. I say this almost with tongue in cheek; I don’t want it to continue, and neither do you. But this is going to continue until good people stand up and engage the culture with logic and reason. 

Look, you and I are Christians. You even have to make this argument from a Judeo Christian worldview. You can just make these arguments from a civil direction. You can argue that even if it’s in the spirit of art, or the spirit of history; these things should stand. Because if you’re going to take down a monument regarding that, then eventually someone’s going to be offended over the fact that we’ve got a flag pole or that we have this monument for that.

Dana Point

You know it’s amazing here in Southern California, not far from me there’s a harbor called Dana Point. Dana was a man, Henry Dana that man came. He was a Harvard law grad. He spent the summer on a whaling ship showed up in Southern California and wound up preaching the gospel to the local Indians and here’s Dana Point. 

He’s holding a Bible, and he’s pointing to Southern California to reach the American Indians because they said they were barbarians lost without Jesus.

Well, Rick, to you and me that’s good news. 


That’s right.


But to an unbelieving world that says well as evil and evil is good. They’re saying, that’s offensive, and that statue’s got to come down. Where do we stop? We have we are so thin-skinned and so uneducated that we can no longer cope with reality.


You alluded to the fact of how far does this go? Where you can’t even have discussions or use certain words, and you know just had Chad Robicheaux on our show, Mighty Warrior program, where he was advertising their Gala and Google, YouTube blocked his ad because one of his keywords was Christian. 


There you go. 


They claimed they didn’t and he turned around and ran the ad with Muslim instead of Christian and it went through just fine. 


There you go. 

We Are Moving Toward An Orwellian Society


He took screenshots and all that, but the whole point is it is definitely an Orwellian kind of thing where we are now going to decide which words, which thoughts, which beliefs – it’s a scary thought to think that they were gonna tear down murals of the father of the country alone. We’re going to limit what you can say. That’s where we’re headed.

 You’ve already said the answer: good people got to stand up and say enough is enough.


You know, Rick, it’s Proverbs 22:28 and let me just read it to you in the New Living Translation, for example, makes it just really modern for us at this moment. “Don’t cheat your neighbor by moving the ancient boundary markers set up by previous generations.” 

Don’t Move History, Learn From It

Now that is in reference to land and boundaries. But what about the issues of science, and technology, and culture, and experience?. 

Don’t move history. Learn from it. Don’t whitewash it. Don’t candy-coat it. Learn from it. 

The danger for me is to look down the halls of the future and wonder what my grandkids are going to learn. Already in the California education system, we’ve got a paragraph, maybe two paragraphs of George Washington, and almost a page and a half of Hollywood pop culture education. That is in the child’s mind only.

What Does That Lead Them To Believe In As A Nation?

What does that lead them to believe in as a nation? America is an idea. It’s not a DNA. What are they going to learn about the greatness of this country, why we’re great? How did this happen? How did God use this country warts and all to be the most remarkable experience in human history?

Our kids are not learning this because it might offend someone. We deal with it in Southern California because you know you were talking about a place where, Rick mark my words and I hope I’m wrong, but just as the Israelis today have to cope with the Palestinian demand that you’re on our land, Southern California is dealing with that now. 

Where the people of Mexico are saying, you guys need to get out. You’re on our land. It’s going to escalate. Why does that even hold a sense of interview with people? Why would educated people consider this?

It’s because we’ve been educated in nonessentials. People do not know history. Nations rise nations fall. God talks about this in Scripture. History records it. And yet if we’re not educated as the old saying goes, if we don’t know the history that’s before us we are absolutely doomed to repeat it.

There Is Hope


Yeah, no doubt about it, man. That’s why we do what we do. We love pastors like you that do the same thing. You teach your flock these things as well. 

We’re talking off-air about you know even in California that there is hope. There are growing numbers of people seeking the truth, and part of it is almost a pushback. 

When they go so far as to start literally tearing painting over pictures or in this case murals of the father of the country, a lot of the people that maybe haven’t paid much attention, all of a sudden are going, what? How far are we going to go? 

They’re saying hey there’s got to be a better way. We aren’t really just gonna throw everything away about what America stands for. I know I’m sensing that in other places around the country, are you sensing that in California?


Absolutely. You and I were talking off-air. People may find this incredibly bizarre, but I have now reached a point of optimism for California. 

When you’ve got cities, as we do, that under absolute Democratic control for decades; the property values are plummeting, businesses are moving out.  The streets, Rick I’m literally telling you, have drug needles on the street. Human waste on the street. 

That a city council member, of the city of San Francisco, was urinated upon while by a homeless man. Literally, we have so hit bottom in this state that I personally believe that California is going to turn around. 

California Is Going To Turn Around

People are starting to speak up. Voter registration increased in the last election, and I think things are going to turn. I think California has hit the bottom and it’s only up from here. I really believe it.


Well, when you experience the the the negative side-effects of bad decisions and sometimes it takes decades literally. 

I mean that’s how it works after years and years and years of bad decisions that finally come home to roost. You finally deal with the negative consequences of that those bad policy decisions and everything else, cultural decisions there. 

There certainly are going to be people who are saying it now; what can we do differently? What is the better way? 

We’ve Got The Truth On Our Side

Here’s the great news: we’ve got the truth on our side. We’ve got principles that work when they’re applied. I mean God’s word is not only right it works. It works best. He gave us the instruction manual. When guys like you’ve been preaching the truth for so long, a lot of those people are going to come back home. 

They are going to say; I tried the other way. 

Some of us were the prodigal son, we ran off and did crazy things, and then we were like this isn’t working there’s got to be a better way in. 

Wait a minute. My father knows the truth, and then we go home. We get the truth, and then we want that truth, and we’re even more passionate about that truth. I see that happening with California.


Absolutely true. Well said. You’re exactly correct. We see it happening as well.


I love it. Well, brother, we’re praying for you praying for your state. Looking forward to the next time we get to have you on the program. 

Keep up the great work with what you’re doing there at Calvary Chapel and look forward to seeing you soon. 


God bless you, Rick. Love you guys. Talk to you later. 


That’s Jack Hibbs. Stay with us folks I’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton. Patriots Academy


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Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Pastor Jack Gibbs for joining us.

We’re back with David and Tim Barton. Now guys, I mean it’s always encouraging to talk to Jack because you know he nails it. Calling it what it is and recognizing what’s happening but then also giving us a little bit of an encouraging word. 

I mean he was optimistic about the direction of California and the ability of the churches to turn that state around.

There’s Optimism For The Direction Of California


Well, he’s optimistic because it’s reached such an absurd point that people are saying hey it’s coming back now. As he said, this is going to continue until good people stand up, and they engage the culture with logic and reason. That’s starting to happen, and that really is good news in California.

I was struck when he said this mural stirred up emotions in people. What if we eliminate everything that stirs up emotions? All sports events – professional sports events have to go away. The Bible has to go away 


Especially certain of emotions that you don’t like. 


Especially when your team is losing


Every time my team loses, nope I invalidate that win because it makes me feel bad. I am not going to count, that we’re not going to let that happen, right? 

That would be ludicrous. But this is kind of what we’re saying. 

And by the way, let’s say with art: what happens to the art that was offensive to Christians? I remember a time right when Jesus’ picture was being taken. 

They were putting urine and putting crosses and religious objects and putting human fecal matter on it and saying it’s art. 

Well, was that offensive? Can I say you’re not allowed to do that because that’s offensive? Well, no, really. You can’t say everything is offensive. Only what offends us. It seems like it’s the way they’re going.

Colin Capra, 4th Of July


If you think back to even Colin Capra, Rick and what happened on the 4th of July when he said, get the flags off the shoes. His statement was the flag was used in a period of time when there was slavery in America. 

I will also point out the Emancipation Proclamation was issued a time when there were slaves in America, so let’s not talk about that. Let’s not talk about the 13th Amendment. 

Hey, let’s definitely not talk about the set of a false convention when women’s rights got started because that happened in time there was slavery in America. Let’s not mention the Declaration of Independence and all the rights it gives. Let’s not talk about the Bible. 


You’re saying that tongue in cheek. I mean there are people who really are arguing some of those things.


But it’s crazy.


Oh, it is crazy. 


If you say, something bad happened in that period time so we cannot talk about anything in that period time. I mean there’s no limit.


Well, and why it’s bad is because we’re not being honest and telling the whole story, right? It’s possible that in the midst of bad moments, there can be something good. And this is why you tell the whole story – the good the bad and the ugly. 

It Is Also True That God Can Use Sinful People Inspite Of Who They Are

It’s true that throughout all of humanity, there were sinners who had sinful things. Yet, it’s also true that God is able to use sinful people and do something great in spite of who they are, in spite of their sin.

This is the story of humanity. It’s the story of America, and it’s not going to change the story by erasing it. Actually, we probably can learn some great lessons if we remembered and learned a little more history.


 Yeah, some of the Democrats are saying this is absolutely crazy. Former Mayor of San Francisco is even saying, this is nuts and then Bob Shrum, he’s the Democrat strategist. He said, look I’m a progressive Democrat, but this is nuts just because others are nuts does mean we have to be. He summed up his comments probably as good as any of us. 

He said, “was Washington, a slave owner? Yes. Did he command troops that killed Native Americans? Yes. But George Washington, it seems stupid to have to say this, performed an incredible service for this country. We wouldn’t be here without him.” 

Even some of the Liberal Democrats are saying about how crazy what’s happened in San Francisco. 

We should be learning history, not erasing history. We can actually learn from history when we do that. 

Come on. We’re talking the father of the country here. I mean this is the guy, the indispensable man, as even Shrum said we wouldn’t be here without him. 

Just craziness out there. 

But thanks to Jack Hibbs for joining us today. For bringing some common sense to it and also giving us a positive outlook on the things that are happening not only in California but across the country. 

We Can Make A Difference

I just want to reiterate that for all of our listeners, no matter what state you’re in no matter what you see in your backyard in your community; you can make a difference. 

We can over time make a big difference in our country and frankly even if we couldn’t, we still do our duty we still stand for what we believe in regardless of what the outcome is going to be. 

As John Quincy Adams, a famous quote said duty is ours, results are God’s. Let’s go out there and make sure that we are living out our freedom; that we’re accepting the responsibility to preserve it for future generations. 

You can do that. There’s a lot of great ways you can do that. Go to today, and you can sign up to become one of our Constitution coaches in your local community and host classes. 

Go to today.

Get that constitution classes. Get those other tools that are available to you to get yourself educated, your family educated and get others in your community educated as well.

There are so many ways you can make a difference. Just be willing to invest a little bit of time each week in becoming a student of freedom and sharing that knowledge with us. Thanks so much for joining today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.