Second Amendment Rights, Foundations Of Freedom Thursday

Second Amendment Rights: It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering your questions from constitutional principles! In today”s episode, we talk about a law in Texas that supports the gun owner’s right to carry their gun. We also answer the question, “If you take away my right to carry a gun should you then take on the responsibility to make sure I”m safe? And did the Founders ever address this concept?” Tune in now to learn more! Â

Air Date:Â 04/19/2018

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

WallBuilders | American historical events, founding fathers, historical documents, books, videos, CDs, tapes, David Barton’s speaking schedule.
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Intro:

President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. This is WallBuilders Live. It’s Thursday, so we’ve got a Foundations of Freedom Thursday program for you. That means that you get to drive the questions, drive the conversation with your questions. You can send them into [email protected], [email protected]

Now, what we do here at WallBuilders Live is we look at whatever the hottest topics of the day are. But we look at those things and discuss those things from a biblical, historical, and constitutional, perspective. And especially on Thursdays we hit those foundational principles. Often looking at what does the Constitution say about it, what does the Declaration say about it, certainly, what did the founders say about it. And then applying that biblical perspective as well.

We’re here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and the president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator. And we’re glad you’re with us today.

Be sure and visit our two websites. We’ve got two of them – WallBuildersLive.com, that’s our radio site. And then just WallBuilders.com. Go to WallBuilders.com for a wealth of information our main website there. You might be a pastor looking at going on one of our Pastors Briefings in D.C.. Or a legislator, you should come to our legislators conference in November. Maybe you just want to get educated on the founding fathers and learn how to educate folks in your Sunday school, or your homeschool co-op, or just the people in your family. Go to WallBuilders.com, you can download a lot of great information there or get some of the books and DVDs that you can use in your home library as well.

David:

Rick, let me jump in there.

Rick:

Yeah.

Leadership Training Program

David:

Another program that we do in the summers is called the Leadership Training.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

And the leadership training, it’s a great time for young folks to be signing up for this. Those from ages 18 through 25 and it’s a great time in the summer.

Tim:

It’s something we do specifically to try to help the next generation have a foundation understanding biblical worldview, understanding the Constitution, and government, politics, economics, things very practically. But also from this historic perspective looking at original documents. We spend two weeks going through, really, the amazing collection we have.

We actually partner with Mercury One, which is a Glenn Beck’s charitable foundation. They have an incredible collection as well and so we just put a couple of library collections together. So, we dive through so much of this firsthand and it’s really designed to help young people as they’re going to college. Or they’ve gone through college maybe they– we have to kind of un-doctrinate some of what they’ve learned.

But it’s to give them a foundation of true, a foundation of reality, and help them to be lifelong learners and thinkers. Help them learn to ask questions in pursuit of truth and not just blindly take whatever they’ve been given. And, really, ultimately what we’re doing is what colleges used to do and should be doing. We are just kind of helping cover that gap and really equip them.

Equipping You to Know What”s True

Tim:

If you’re going to college and you have professors saying things you’re thinking, “You know, I’m just not sure that’s true.” We help equip you to know what is truth, how do we perceive it, how do we find it, what questions should we ask, what sources are we looking for, how do we verify that. And so a lot of things just to give that foundation. And then ultimately it’s all built from a Christian perspective, knowing that ultimate truth is built on the word of God, it comes from God. You know Jesus said that He was truth, so it’s part of the character and nature of God.

So, there is a lot that we cover and it really is something completely transformative. We’ve seen some amazing testimonies come out of it and we’ve done this for several years. I actually had a girl message me last year and she was doing a project for an economics class and she was having to write a paper. And she said, “Hey, I want to study and see what John Witherspoon did for the state of New Jersey. Because I know he was involved in the legislature, I know he was involved in the state. I want to see if he did anything to help economics in New Jersey.”

So I said, “Okay, here are links to his writings. Here are things that he did.” And by the way, Witherspoon was a signer of the Declaration, he was the president of Princeton University. He, at Princeton, trained more founding fathers then, basically, any other school, any other president. So, this girl says, “I want to see what Witherspoon did to help shape economics in the state of New Jersey.” So, I gave her links to his writings, helped her find information, and books that have been written about him, and kind of walked her through some stuff. She does his research, I didn’t talk to her much after that. But she did the research, turned it in.

“My Professor Had Never Seen Anything Like This”

Tim:

Well, I saw her just several weeks ago, we happened to be in the same place, and she said, “Okay, it’s amazing what happened. I did the paper.” I said, “Oh yeah, how”d it go?!” She said, “It was so good I got an A. My professor had never seen any of this and actually had no idea that founding fathers had any kind of influence on any of the economics that we did in America or economic systems for their states. So, when he saw all the information, and saw it all sourced to original documents, he looked at the original documents, he was blown away. He asked if we could meet once a week to just talk about some of the history I had learned and where I was finding stuff.”

Now, he’s an economics professor, had no idea how the Founding Fathers had played a role in shaping economics in America. But this was something that she actually learned from this leadership training program was how to do research, how to use original sources, how to ask questions, how to pursue truth. And not only did this transform her life, it’s changed a college professor who I can only imagine how he will now, perhaps, change what he teaches and how he teaches.

So, the program really just is phenomenal what it does for young people. The information we cover, it’s so fun, it’s super engaging. And not only transformative for them, but we’re praying transformative for the future of our nation.

Rick:

And, Tim, this is not just a– so today we have Foundations of Freedom Thursdays, you get 26 minutes, roughly, of foundations. We’re talking about foundations for how long? They’re there for what, two, three, weeks?

Tim:

For two weeks.

Rick:

Two weeks.

Tim:

Yeah, this is two weeks. Really, it’s minimal expense. We’re covering facilities and some of the speakers we have come in. They have to pay for their own transportation, their own lodging, their own food. It’s in Dallas, so there’s lots of hotels around. Actually, you could fly in and Uber back and forth. So, transportation–

Speaking the Language of 35 and Down

David:

Wait a minute, you can fly in an Uber?

Rick:

That”s what I thought you said too!

Did:

Did I hear that?

Rick:

I didn”t know Uber was flying now.

Tim:

You can fly it on a plane and then Uber back and forth.

Rick:

Ohhh.

David:

Got it.

Tim:

I was probably speaking the language of like 35 and down and they were tracking. But, no, you don’t fly in an Uber, you fly in and then Uber–

Rick:

David, I think he”s saying us old folks didn’t quite follow him there.

Tim:

I did not say old folks.

David:

I think we both got kind of * there a little bit.

Rick:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

But if I did not clarify that well enough I can imply that much better for–

You Don”t Speak Uber

Rick:

What he’s saying is we don’t speak Uber.

Tim:

Well, yeah.

David:

We don’t speak 35 and under I think is what he said.

Tim:

But it’s something that it’s over in Dallas. We’ve tried to have it at a location where it’s conducive to having people come in, make it a lot easier for them. We take up to 50 students at a time. We have three sessions. You can find out about it on the WallBuilders website.

But certainly as we talk about foundations of freedom, I mean, ultimately, that”s what we do for two weeks is dig into the very foundations that have allowed us to be a free nation. Ultimately built, principles found in the Word of God. And then individuals taking those principles, applying them to the nation, and that’s what we dig into.

Rick:

Alright, good stuff guys. Got to take a quick break. Then we’ll come back and get into those questions from our audience. And if you’d like to send one in, be sure and send it to [email protected] Stay with us. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live.

Outro:

Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Founding Fathers John Adams and Thomas Jefferson originally worked closely together but later became ardent opponents.

This troubled Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the declaration, who knew both of them very well. In the Bible, second Corinthians 5:18 tells us that God has given each of us the ministry of reconciliation. Dr Rush believed this and set out to bring the two back together.

It took a while, but Adams and Jefferson once again became close friends. Looking back on his role in helping bring about this reconciliation Dr. Rush stated, “It will give me pleasure as long as I live to reflect that. I have been in any degree instrumental in effecting this reunion of two souls destined to be dear to each other and motivated with the same dispositions to serve their country, though in different ways.”

For more information about Dr. Benjamin Rush and his other remarkable achievements go to WallBuilders.com.

Intro:

Thomas Jefferson said, “The constitutions of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”

Rick:

Welcome back and thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Time to dive into your questions. The first one comes from listening to one of our Foundations of Freedom programs a few weeks ago and here’s how it went. “Back in February you had a Foundation of Freedom question about employers who prohibit employees, even those licensed to carry, from bringing guns on their property, or even into the parking lot.

“I thought you might want to know that Texas has a state law that prohibits employers from prohibiting employees who have a license to carry from having guns and ammunition locked in their personal vehicles in the parking lot with a couple of narrow exceptions. You can see the labor code in sections 52.061 through 52.064.” And his point was, he said, “Sometimes legislators get something right after all.”

Other States Should Act Like Texas

David:

Wait a minute, what state are we talking about here?

Rick:

Right here in Texas.

David:

Oh, Texas got something right. I thought I’d just point that out.

Rick:

I was very much like his suggestion at the end of his email as well. He said, “And maybe other pro family legislators could pursue something similar in other states.” And I don”t know the break down–

David:

Other states should act like Texas? Is that what I’m hearing?

Tim:

At least in this area, right. There’s a few things we go, okay, wait a second. There are some things in Texas we’re trying to fix, trying to change, trying to get better. But I also love the thought when he talks about, he mentioned that sometimes legislators get it right. This is the reason it’s so important that we are involved in the political process. Because when you have legislators with the right philosophy you end up getting much better legislation. And most of the frustrations we have from bad legislation are from legislators who have bad philosophies. So, we have to get involved to help get the right kind of legislators so we get the right kind of policies that came because of the right kind of philosophies.

Rick:

You guys would probably like my state Reps T-shirt. He took a play on words of “Make America Great Again” and he made his shirt say “Make America Like Texas”.

David:

It”s a synonym – “great again” and “Texas” – those to go.

Rick:

The same thing.

David:

The same thing.

Rick:

Yeah. It”s just one”s Texas speak and the others not. So–

The Responsibility Side of Private Property Rights

Rick:

Okay, next question and then we”ll– In fact, I will probably just get the question out. You guys can be thinking about it, we’ll go to break, come back, and answer it when we come back. This one’s also following up on a previous Foundations of Freedom Thursday program. It says, “You talked about how private property rights interact with our right to keep and bear arms. I understand that owning property means being able to tell someone else they can’t come onto it or can’t engage in certain actions while there. But this seems like only half the equation.

“What about the responsibility side of this? If you required me to give up my right to defend myself to come on your property, it seems that from a moral perspective you have to take on the responsibility to defend me if someone attacks me. After all, it’s one thing to temporarily give up my right to self-defence and another thing entirely to temporarily give up my right to life. If a Texas business posts a 30.06 sign–“

That’s 30.06 is the part of the code for Texas law where they can prevent you from carrying your concealed weapon on their property. It’s a sign that with the force of law prohibiting concealed carry. “–If a Texas business posts one of those signs and there is a shooting on those premises, shouldn’t the businesses have some partial liability for having disarmed the victims? Note that I’m not asking if they have legal liability under current law, but should they.”

In other words, what I think he’s really saying, guys, is philosophically, shouldn’t they take some of the responsibility if they disarmed you before you came on the property. And then the end of his question is bringing in the founders he said, “Did the Founders ever address this concept? Or did they maybe address the same concept in the inverse? That is, if you weren’t armed when you were expected to be and someone was hurt because you left your gun at home, did you have a share of the blame?”

Now I know, David and Tim, you’re going to have a great time with this question. So, I’m going to take a break here. Let the listeners have a minute and a half, two minutes, to think about this question. When we come back, it’s all yours. Stay with us, folks. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live.

Outro:

Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

Leadership Training Program

Rick:

Hey, friends! We’ve got a great program to share with you today. It”s the WallBuilders Leadership Training Program and it’s an opportunity for 18 to 25 year olds to come spend two weeks diving into the original documents we’re always talking about here on WallBuilders Live.

Tim, you’ve already been doing this a couple of summers and seen the results of young people coming to this program. We’re going to see more of them coming this year.

Tim:

Yeah, Rick, it”s something that”s been cool to see the transformation with young people coming in. The emphasis, for us, largely is a pursuit of truth. We have a culture that doesn’t know what truth is. We don’t know what biblical truth is, or constitutional truth, or the American heritage that we have. And so we really dive into original documents and say, “Well, what did they actually write? What did they actually do? Not just what did somebody say, what is actually true, and the truth is what’s transformational.

David:

Yeah, guys. This really is a remarkable opportunity. And for those who want to spend time with us and spend time in the original documents, this is a great program. So, if you’re from 18 to 25, or you know someone who’s 18 to 25, send them to sign up for one of our three sessions this summer at WallBuilders.com/leadershiptraining.

Intro:

Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live. David, Tim, alright, we had a long lead up with the question summarizing very quickly as you jump into the answer. If a business owner says you can’t carry your weapon, your concealed carry weapon, onto my property and then something happens where had you had your weapon you could have prevented the harm, should that business owner carry some kind of liability, partial liability on that? And did the Founders ever address this particular concept?

Before the Founders, John Locke

David:

The founders did address that and before the founders addressed that, John Locke addressed that. John Locke is a political philosopher from the 1600s in England on whom the Founding Fathers heavily relied. They read his works extensively. And John Locke covers a couple of things that relate to this – one is natural law. Natural law is the law by which God governs nature. And the other part is what’s called social compact law. And that’s the laws whereby individuals give up some of their rights to have a civilized society and society then takes on the fulfillment of those duties.

So, on the one side you have the natural right of self-defence. Everything in nature tells you that you have a right to defend yourself, you have a right to defend your family, and to defend your home or property – that’s a law of nature. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a mouse, if you try to hurt a mouse they’re going to bite you. They’re not going to much damage, but they will use everything they can for self-defence. The same if you go up to a hawk. If you go to a cow she’s going to kick you in the head if she gets a chance if you’re gonna harm her.
David:

So, everything in nature you have that right of self defense, that’s a natural law. So, you cannot limit someone’s right of self-defence – that’s a law of nature. On the other side, you can give up rights in a society, the societal rights, social compact rights, if the government takes on those rights. Therefore, according to Locke, you can’t give up the right to self-defence – that’s your right.

But let’s say you did. If we gave up the right of self-defence that means the government has the responsibility to keep us safe. And if they don’t then they have failed in that responsibility. It’s the same kind of responsibility that transfers– and by the way, the question was asked at the end, is there a reverse corollary to this? Yes.

If You Get Robbed in Your Own Home

David:

Founding Father James Wilson, who signed the Declaration and the Constitution, and was on the original Supreme Court appointed by George Washington, he wrote the first law book in America for the first law school in America. He says, “If you get robbed in your own home it’s not the police’s fault, it’s yours. Because you should have defended yourself. You can’t blame the police for that because you have the duty of self-defence.” That”s one of those natural rights where you’ve got the duty–

Rick:

And you”re the authority in your home–

David:

You”re the authority in your home.

Rick:

So, it”s your responsibility to make sure that there is a defence there.

David:

And that’s going to be where I– anywhere I go I have a duty to defend my family. I have a duty to defend myself, my property.

Rick:

So, if I tell you you’ve got to give that up to come into my place of business I’m kind of transferring that responsibility to myself, right?

David:

Well, that’s why a lot of people still wear concealed carriers into places they’re told not to. Because they would rather have their life than to be carried out by six pall bearers for not doing that. If you want to look at it from the sense that when you suspend someone’s natural right according to John Locke, then the corporate group takes on the responsibility for the enforcement of that right. Tthere’s a great argument to be made that what happened in Florida, the governments responsible for that. The government had a duty to protect and it did not protect and did not allow them to protect themselves.

So, who’s accountable for that? Not just the guy with the gun. Now, he did wrong all the way around, but there was a duty to protect. Because they told those kids, “You don’t have the right to self-defence. You don’t have the right to defend yourself.” They told parents and teachers, “You don’t have the right to defend yourself.”

The Immunity Clause

David:

Now, Rick, you know how this works from a legislative legal standpoint. You can’t sue the government unless the government gives you permission. It’s that Immunity Clause. And the Government’s not giving you permission to sue it over failure to defend, and failure to protect. But that’s the way is supposed to work.

Rick:

It’s ridiculous. It’s a protection– government’s protected instead of actually you know having to live up to their responsibility. And before we go there, David, I’ve got to throw in the– I mean the Amanda Collins story is perfect on this. Here’s a lady that as a college student had the ability to defend herself, was trained to use her weapon, and government took that away from her and said, “You cannot carry on campus.”

And she ended up being raped right there by the police officers station in the parking garage, literally 50 feet from it. And government was responsible for preventing her from being able to use her weapon to defend herself. The guy finally gets caught later, raped and killed, literally raped and killed, other women and was finally busted for that. But I get upset, I get angry, righteously angry, when government disarms citizens and things like that happen to them. When it would not have happened if government hadn’t intervened wrongly and, obviously, in my opinion.

David:

But this is the problem that we forget that our natural rights come from God and they cannot be abridged by government. And when you get to the Andrew Cuomo thing, and when you get to the others that are saying, “No, no, no, government gives us our rights. We don’t have natural rights from God, they come from government.”

Tim:

Well, and I would even specify with that. So, one of the things, even in the founding era, you cannot restrict a right if you’re not going to provide the adequate equivalent for an individual. So, if the Second Amendment is about being able to defend yourself, your family, your state, from any outside threat or invader. If you go into a town– and certainly there were times in American history where there’s gunslingers in the wild west, so we don’t want gunslingers. Well, it”s the marshal’s job to make sure everyone in that town is safe if nobody can carry a gun.

Holding the Government Accountable

Tim:

If the government is going to step in and say, “You are not allowed to carry a gun.”, the government has a corresponding responsibility to then protect and keep us safe in places where they will not allow us to carry our guns. If they fail to do their job, for example, I’m not allowed to carry a gun in a courtroom.

So, certainly there is bailiff’s, there”s police officers, whoever, they are supposed to protect and keep it safe. If people come in and shoot up that courtroom, then it’s the government’s fault for allowing that to happen. Because if I was allowed to have my gun perhaps I could have done something and stopped the bad guy. If the government doesn’t do their job then I should have the ability to go after them because they restricted my rights, but they gave me the guarantee when they took my right away that they would protect me where I was no longer allowed to protect myself. But if they failed to do their job I should be able to hold them accountable for failing to do their job.

David:

Yeah, that’s where that immunity thing comes in. The government says, “Well, you can’t sue us for that unless we give you permission to sue us.” And it is one of the craziest things. That’s one of the reasons you can’t hold government accountable the way you should. Now part of this is we’ve lost the philosophy of what a natural right is and that it cannot be a bridge by government, and you cannot take from me the right to defend myself because that didn’t come from you, it came from God.

But the other part is, once they take it and something happens wrong as a result you can’t hold them accountable and you can’t go after them for failure to perform what they should have performed.

Rick:

Unless you can convince Â the legislature to give you permission. Imagine that – you’ve got to ask the government for permission to sue the government.

Stay with us, folks. We”ve got to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Outro:

Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”

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Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders” library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution. Â You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at WallBuilders.com.

Intro:

Rick:

We’re back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. And by the way, we didn’t get to many of your questions today, but if you want to send some of those in we’ll try to get to more of them next Thursday. So, send them to [email protected]

There”s a Way to Recover the Knowledge of Rights

Rick:

David, you were talking about the legislative or government immunity and how you have to go to the legislature to get permission. Makes it awfully hard and it’s based on this idea, like you’re saying, we’ve lost the concept of the laws of nature and nature’s God, natural rights, the things that John Locke wrote so much about, and that the Founders were well schooled in. But man, we don”t even use that language anymore today let alone teach that philosophy to our kids.

David:

No, but there are ways to recover the knowledge of what those rights were. As matter of fact, one of the works we have WallBuilders is on the Second Amendment and it goes through how the founding fathers laid this out as a natural right and what is incorporated with that.

And by the way you know–

Rick:

And don’t let that size of that book fool you, folks. I mean, when you look online, when you see at our website today, we have a link for it. And it’s called a Primmer, basically, on the Second Amendment. It is packed full of quotes, after quote, after quote, after quote, of the founders, of judges. It’s a wealth of information and no pun intended. Ammunition for what the real purpose of the Second Amendment is. Sorry, David, I just think everybody ought to have that Second Amendment book. It’s only a few dollars, get it right now when this is such a hot topic, folks. You need to be educated on this.

Be Willing To Invest in Freedom

David:

Well, and the same way with Constitutional Alive. That”s one of the things we cover in Constitutional Alive. Because you need to know the Constitution, which means you need to know the Bill of Rights, which means you need to know what the Second Amendment is all about.

Rick:

Like you said, it can be restored and it can be– even the philosophy behind that language in the Constitution can be learned. This isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult stuff, but we’ve got to take the time as citizens to be willing to invest in freedom and do a little bit of study. Certainly, take the responsibility to teach our children these things.