Socialism And The Trump Card – With Dinesh D’Souza: Do you think most pro-socialist college students know that socialism is about creating a forced conformity across culture? Why are Christians buying into socialistic ideas? If socialism were going to work with any group of people, it would’ve worked with the Pilgrims. The election before has had such a clear distinction between ideas with such drastic consequences. Why do radical Muslims and transgenders work together? Is socialism a form of slavery? How did such a discredited ideology like socialism be taken seriously by intellectual people? Tune in to hear Dinesh D’Souza discuss his new movie Trump Card, a manifesto against socialism.

Air Date: 10/28/2020

Guest: Dinesh D’Souza

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


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My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton is with us. national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. You can find out more about all three of us at our website today,

Alright, David, Tim, later in the program, Dinesh D’souza with us to talk about his new movie Trump Card. Not really a movie about Trump as much as a movie about the different worldviews on the ballot in November and specifically the ground that has been gained by the socialists, by the Marxist and how important it is for us to fight back. A lot gets covered in this movie.

What is a Worldview?

But guys, just a summary of what worldview means and what that means in terms of if you elect a worldview that is Marxist, socialist, communist, versus if you elect a worldview that is more of a founding fathers, free enterprise, freedom, individualism, those kind of things, how does that change America depending on which worldview is in the White House?


Rick, that’s a really pleasant softball you just tossed us to be able to talk about. So obviously, looking at people that are running for office, everybody has an ideology, everybody has a philosophy of how life works and how government should work. And arguably, there’s not been a much more clear distinction in a presidential election with different ideologies and philosophies for the country that would take them in such radically different directions.

People have made many references, including Trump himself has referenced things back to Abraham Lincoln, but usually, talking about some of the veracity of veracity rather of the attacks that have come against him and not necessarily ideology. Certainly, looking historically, you can see things where people have different positions of race or slavery or gender. Certainly, there’s been different ideologies.

But to look at a presidential lineup where one candidate is promoting freedom and the free market and an individual choice and the freedom of worship and the freedom of speech and one candidate is promoting Marxism and socialism that would take us in a direction totally opposite of freedom, there’s never been a much more clear distinction. And one of the challenges we see in culture is that unfortunately, a lot of people don’t recognize what socialism and what Marxism actually produces. They don’t know what it actually does.

The notion that communism is just kind of like you hanging out with your friends, and everybody agrees, everybody gets along, and then we all share, and this is socialism. And we just share everything and nobody has any wants, and everybody has everything in common. In the way this picture is painted, I understand why a lot of young people would buy into it. I understand why a lot of people in academic circles buy into some of these notions.

Why Doesn’t Socialism Make Sense?

Socialism actually would make sense if it wasn’t for the depravity of man and his sinful human nature. But because we know that people are not basically good in and of themselves and everything they do, that the notion that the Bible tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, nobody’s perfect: everybody is a sinner who needs a savior. Because of that, this is the fundamental reason socialism doesn’t work.

If you look historically, the pilgrims tried socialism, and if it was ever going to work with any people group ever in the history of the world, it would have been the pilgrims. Because they were the ones who followed the Bible arguably better than anybody else in America, especially given the time frame and the culture they lived in. They knew how to work, they wanted to share, they wanted to get along. And Governor Bradford in his writings said that it failed so miserably. He said, we thought we were wiser than God, alluding to the fact that the Bible is clear.

Socialism is not what God teaches, is not what Jesus taught or promoted. And yet, that’s what a lot of even Christians are buying into some of these socialistic ideas, thinking this is a biblical ideology. Not only is it not biblical, socialism has never worked in the history of the world. And this is exactly what is on the ballot, looking between Joe Biden and President Trump, is president Trump is someone who promotes freedom and individual’s responsibility, individual’s choice and the free market. And Joe Biden is someone who absolutely is leaning in the direction of socialism and Marxism in a lot of the ideology being promoted. So this is a very clear distinction, which will have very real consequences for America.

What Makes America Exceptional?


And Rick, here’s the deal. America is unique because we embrace unique ideas, and that’s what’s on the ballot this time. Is do we keep embracing unique ideas like the free market, like individual’s responsibility and accountability? All those things that Tim has kind of mentioned that the pilgrims demonstrated, do we follow through with those ideas or do we abandon them and become like the other nations in the world?


Yeah, and saying even their unique ideas, they’re unique ideas only in so much as this is not the norm in the standard in the world. Not unique ideas that we are trying something brand new. Well, no, a lot of this experiment has been worked out over the last several hundred years. And even before some of these ideas were tried in America, they were tried in Israel, they were tried in other places. The Bible gives us examples of this.

But it’s unique and so much that most of the rest of the world does not operate with the same level of freedom, the same level of personal choice or the free market the way we have it in America. And it’s the reason that America is different than the rest of the world in many positive ways that we have more freedom, more stability, more prosperity in this nation than anywhere else in the world.

And the ideas that we are implementing are unique, and again, only because not everybody else is doing it the same way, and it’s actually to their detriment that they are not doing it the same way. Because for socialist nations, it’s not working very well; for communist nations, it’s not working very well. There’s a reason people are trying to get to America and they’re not knocking down the walls trying to get into China. They’re not fighting to get into Russia, or North Korea, because communism, socialism. It just doesn’t work as well as freedom does and the free market does in America.

Do Americans Want to Remain Free?


And that’s the choice in this election. Do you want to continue to remain like America has remained stable, strong, prosperous, individual freedoms? Or would we prefer to become like France now is or like Morocco, or Italy, or Spain, or Germany or these other nations, where they don’t have the individual freedoms? They certainly don’t have the stability. They don’t have the prosperity. They don’t have the economics.

That’s what’s on the ballot this time. And a lot of times people do not look far enough down the road, they listen to the sound bites that come out of candidates. But this is, as you said, Rick, at the beginning, this is a worldview decision. We are making decisions in this election that will affect us for the next 20 to 30 years, literally, because we either keep our institutions as we’ve known them, and really, as they’ve proven to be effective, or we change those institutions, and the philosophies undergirding them, and we move in the direction that the rest of the world has really moved which has not been nearly as sound or as good as what America is. So that’s the decision on the ballot.


Well, Dinesh D’souza breaks it down, hits every one of these areas that that a socialist worldview impacts. We’ve said before, the Left destroys everything that it ends up infiltrating and we see that happening in areas of our culture now. So Dinesh breaks that down and then shows how Trump is fighting back against that, but most importantly, how we have to fight against that and we have to get educated on these things to do so. Dinesh D’souza, our special guest today, stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

 A Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early 1700s, the Reverend John Wise preached that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny, and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the government. All of which is language recognizable in the Declaration of Independence.

Why? Because in 1772, the Sons of Liberty led by founders such as Sam Adams, and John Hancock, reprinted and distributed the Reverend Wise’s sermons, so four years later, much of the declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Wise.

In 1926, on 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed “The thoughts in the Declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Wise was saying.” Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Reverend John Wise.

For more information on this and other stories, go to


Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. We had Danielle on talking about that great new book. Today, okay, well, she’s already out shining you, man. Dinesh D’souza is with us. Dinesh. Good to have you, sir.


Hey, great to be on the show. Thanks for having me.


You got to be super proud, man. Not only does she do a great job on the book and the arguments, but her interviews, I mean, just phenomenal. And she stole the show from you, in the movie, she stars in Trump Card with you.

Cultural Marxism


Exactly. Well, I mean, these days, you know, the socialist left is not just about economic confiscation, they are also about this Cultural Marxism. And you can meet socialists today who care more about abortion than the minimum wage, and more about the transgender bathroom than they do about universal basic income. So we’ve got to look at socialism as not just an economic but also a social, cultural, and ultimately a kind of moral phenomenon.


The wild thing is you covered all of that in the movie and I mentioned this to you when we were together San Diego last week or so. And usually, the rule is one topic that’s all you cover. You hit socialism from every angle, and it’s needed because they’re winning in so many of these areas, but you hit it from every angle. It’s a phenomenal movie. It’s called Trump Card. People can get it everywhere right now. Right? I mean, you got it out there on Hulu, they can get on Amazon. Tell us where to go?


I mean, the beauty of this is that it’s available for people to watch at home on any device. Now, it’s not available yet on Amazon. They promised to put it up but they haven’t done it yet. So Apple, iTunes, Google, YouTube, the movie site called Fandango, Vudu, Comcast Xfinity, there are many platforms and will tell you exactly where you can download it and where you can watch it.


Excellent. And I’m sure Amazon will have a change of heart on November 4th day after the election, knowing them. But I mean, listen, people might hear the title and think this is just about Trump. I mean, obviously, you hit Trump’s position against socialism and how he’s beating it back, but this is really a manifesto against socialism. It shows the dangers of the ideas of socialism and communism, and how much they’ve been sewn into the American culture.

Socialist Experiments Collapsed


Yes, so socialism it’s the most discredited idea after slavery. And it was discredited in part because it was seen as a form of slavery. Socialist experiments collapsed all over the world in the last century. And I don’t think people at the end of the century would have expected a comeback. But here it is, back in America and back in the mainstream of American politics. So part of what the movie explores is the mystery of how such a preposterously discredited ideology could return with a vengeance and be taken seriously by serious people.


You interview a lot of different folks in the movie, you visit a lot of places, said you take on a lot of topics. One of the ones that intrigued me the most was the whole radical Islam and the Left and how these two could possibly be on the same team. And I’d never seen anybody address this and you hit it at its heart. I forget the gentlemen that you interviewed, apparently, he was a former radical Imam, and now he’s not radicalized anymore. Can you just touch on that particular subject for a moment?


Yeah, the mystery is this. You’ve got the secular Left, and this is a very permissive Left, and they’re pushing gay rights and transgender bathrooms and every sort of sexual perversity you can imagine. And on the other side, you’ve got these puritanical, radical Muslims, and they are against gays, and they’re against transgenders, and they’re not for this kind of permissiveness. And yet, these two groups are in the same ideological camp.

They hate Trump and the Republicans with the same kind of passion, and they cooperate with each other.

Muslims and Transgender

So my question to this former radical Imam, how can these two groups, these strange bedfellows work together? And his answer is, well, number one, they have a common enemy; and number two, they sort of each offer something to the other. So the Left offers the Muslims protection, it gives them the media, it gives them access to these public platforms that they otherwise wouldn’t have.

And in return, the Imams promise to deliver money and they deliver the vote. So this is actually a kind of horrible alliance between two corrupt factions that are coming together with the common goal of trying to advance under the banner of socialism.


One of the things that you don’t shy away from is the party history. You cover quite a bit about Lincoln as well in this and in this party today, this Democrat party today versus Republican Party. The difference in terms of their position on socialism, never been more clear.

Used to, a party would run from that title or run from even those policies, at least try to mask them a little bit. Now, it’s unabashed. I mean, they are embracing the socialist ideas, and yet still garnering a large percentage of the vote.


Well, they do know that socialism is still a little bit of a bad word in America. And that’s why Biden keeps saying I defeated the socialist, I’m not a socialist. Well, Biden is in the socialist camp and here’s what I mean by that. If you think of the free market at one end of the spectrum and socialism at the other end, just ask yourself this question, in which direction are all the democrats pulling?

All the Dems Are Pulling the Same Way

The answer is all pulling in the socialist direction. There’s not a single Democrat. Not Pelosi, not Schumer, not Kamala Harris, none of them that have pulling in the free market direction. So there might be a difference of degree. Biden may differ from Bernie, kind of like a push different from a shove, but ultimately, they’re in the same camp and they’re tugging in the same way.


Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. What is the most important thing you want people to take away from “Trump Card”?


Well, I want to take away the idea that this socialism is ultimately not just about taking your money, but it’s about creating an enforced conformity across the culture. It’s quite amazing to see how these days free speech and freedom of religion have become diminished commodities in America. We feel a little bit less free than we were before, and the reason is that you can get fired from your job, thrown off digital media. There’s all kinds of ostracism and intimidation that the Left uses to try to whip people into line. Look at the lawsuits against the Christian Baker.

We’re going to make you bake a cake. We’re going to make you say even what you don’t want to, even what goes against your beliefs. And if you go to the Supreme Court, and win, we’ll sue you again. So there is this effort here to make us all into worms, and make us live according to the dictates and the ideology of the socialist Left. The big question is going to be and this outlast the election, are we going to be submit to living in their world? And if not, what is alternative?


Well, like you just said, outlast the election, that’s part of what I didn’t expect from the movie. Just I thought, okay, this is going to be mostly about what Trump has done. But really, I got educated on these issues that we’ve been at war on for decades now, and it’s come to a head and people that don’t realize this is truly a culture war of worldviews, and it’s affecting your life and affecting your backyard and your family and your kids.

You Need to See This

They need to see this movie, to see just how insidious these attempts are and how much ground they’ve gained, and then how to fight back. So I hope the movie is a hit before the election, but I hope it continues to be used as an education piece. I got tell, I sat there as I was watching, I was going I need to be showing this at Patriot Academy every year and this is going to be required viewing for our students before they even come because it is literally an education on world views of our country ought to work.


Well, I that means a lot to me, because we work hard to make these movies highly entertaining and riveting from start to finish, but we also pack a lot of information in them. And quite a few people see these movies more than once because they feel like whenever I see it again, I get something new out of it. So the movies are layered, and they tie in ideas and emotion. A book can’t do that. A book is an argument with references and footnotes. But a movie is an emotional journey that contains a lot of academic and historical and current day information that people need to know about.


Well, you do some really cool reenactments. It’s like it’s not just actual footage, you use some really amazing actual footage of the things that have happened just in the last year in America. But some really cool reenactments, don’t want to give away what they are. But I’ll just say, you know, certainly folks that realize we’re in an Orwellian society, you will love what Dinesh has done with this movie.

Folks can share it. is the place to send, you know, everybody put this on your social media tools. Are you facing any of any of that Orwellian ministry of truth right now where they’re blocking you on Twitter and all these places?


Well, we we’ve had a lot of strange battles along the way. Normally, we have absolutely no trouble getting distribution for our movies. And of course, I’ve made a feature film called “Infidel” that’s in the theater right now…

Amazon Hinders Trump Card


Yes, Jim Caviezel; another good one for people to see.


But there are distribution outlets that have said, oh, yeah, we’ll take “Infidel”, but no, no, no, we don’t really want to be involved with “Trump Card” because the name Trump is radioactive. So interestingly, there is a pushback against anything that is associated with Trump. Now, we’ve been able to navigate some of those obstacles and of course, we’ve got the movie out there and tons of people are seeing it. But again, we’ve had troubles with Amazon.

Amazon prime is sitting on tons of orders of “Trump Card”. It’s delayed shipping and some people are getting a notice you’ll get the DVD right on Election Day or right after the election.


Of course. Yeah.


So this is a little suspect. I mean, we’re trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. But boy, two weeks before the election, it’s a little strange that this very well-run company is suddenly having glitches.


With digitally available on iTunes, Google, Vudu, Western Journal, SalemNow, Fandango, you can go get the DVD if you want the DVD right now, Walmart, Target, several other places like that. Do a watch party, man. This is a great way to get people talking and energized for the election, and as Dinesh said, beyond. Dinesh D’souza, your work is amazing, really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on and tell us about it.


Hey, my pleasure.

Rick: is the website. Stay with us, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Valuable Resources

Hey guys, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. And I know you hear my dad and Rick talk a lot about our Founding Fathers, about the original intent of our nation, that constitutional heritage that we have, and really, we’ve seen how far we’ve slipped away from that. And I know a lot of us as we hear my dad and Rick talk, think, I wish there was a place that I could go and I could see these documents, and I could read and learn about the Founding Fathers firsthand, see the things they did. And I want to give you some websites today that can help you accomplish that very thing.

If you can online, you can go to places like Library of Congress, and you can look under their century of lawmaking or historical documents. You can go to the Avalon project, to the Founders’ Constitution at Google Books, or even the internet archives. Or you can just go to Wallbuilders website, we have a section for our library.

Then under that section, we have different subgroups for historical documents, historical writings, even a place where you can get helpful links to find out more information about other websites where you can do research for yourself and find the truth for yourself.

Friends, this is the time that we need to know who we are and where we came from. is a great place to go.


We’re back on wall butterfly. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Dinesh D’souza for joining us as well. And be sure to watch Trump Card, you can get it on all kinds of streaming services and also order the DVD on Amazon as well. Back with David and Tim. And Dinesh has made a lot of movies like this. I’ve never seen him tackle so many topics at once, including, really, I mean, tough topics, the topics that typically would be a movie by themselves in terms of radical Islam, the sexualization of our culture.

Socialism is a Form of Slavery

I mean, all these different areas that he covers and how it impacts our lives, even opens with scenes from the book 1984 and how we become an Orwellian society. And I wasn’t kidding, when I told him I think this ought to be an education. This isn’t about the campaign as much as it’s about educating our people. I’m going to start having Patriot Academy students watch it.


Well, you know, Dinesh is good at having really good sound bites, and some of those even came out in this interview. And that’s part of how you can get equipped to kind of argue the worldview here. But I wrote some of them down because they were so good. He said, “Socialism is the most discredited idea in the world after slavery, because socialism is seen as a form of slavery. It is amazing that we are debating today whether to move into that form of slavery.” And that really is what the debate is about, whether we remain free or go in a different direction.


And by the way, in, in the movie trump card, he actually gets into that a little bit more than he did in this interview. And it’s a really, really powerful moment. He’s on a college campus. And he talks about, right, nobody here would advocate, we should bring back slavery, because this would help us, it would benefit people, would make us all better. And even he said, everybody would look and go, that’s a stupid idea, because slavery does not help and benefit us.

And yet, this is the same argument that’s being set for socialism, which is every bit as destructive. And he goes on, in this explanation, you’re going, wow, that’s really, really powerful, and absolutely spot on. And so dad, I know, you have several things you want to point out from the interview, but this is where–

I mean, Rick, you’ve mentioned that people need to watch this, Patriot Academy kids, they’re going to start watching it before they come to Patriot Academy. It really is a really good kind of primer coming into just basic understanding of what socialism actually produces, and what you give up that the freedoms that you lose when you live in socialism.

Socialism Isn’t Just About Money


He also pointed out the socialism is not just about money, and that’s where a lot of the discussion is today, is income equality, as they often call it. He said, it’s about enforced conformity. And that’s another area that I don’t think people look at historically, what happens in socialist nations, you lose your individual freedoms. You can say, let’s even argue that it made greater economic sense, which it doesn’t. Historically, it is a form of slavery. But even if you argued that you can’t get around the fact that it’s enforced conformity, and you lose individual freedoms to a degree that that just none of us are accustomed to.


And one of the things that that we’ve heard also, Joe Biden argue is look, he’s not a socialist, he’s not in favor of that. But one of the things we’ve pointed out in this program many times is President Trump has done so well. And one of the reasons he’s done so well is because he surrounded himself with really good people. And we never thought he was going to be one of the most constitutional and almost prolife, one of the most pro-religious freedom presidents we’ve seen in our nation’s history. And yet he is, but it’s because that’s who he surrounded himself with.

When you look at Joe Biden saying, no, no, no, I’m not socialist. Okay, Joe, well, let’s hold up for a second. Who are you looking at surrounding yourself with? And if you look at the people around him, whether it be the Bernie Sanders or AOC, or Kamala Harris, who’s actually on the ticket with him, these are people that are incredibly pro-socialist.

So to say, well, that’s not who I am, well, you become like those you surround yourself with. And if you surround yourself with socialists, don’t be confused thinking that Joe was the moderate candidate who is not going to promote socialism? No, no, he’s surrounding himself with some of the most extreme people there are in America with political ideology. That is what Joe represents and reflects, in contrast to the people that President Trump has surrounded himself with.

Who is Biden Surrounding Himself With?


And as Dinesh pointed out, he said, Biden is different from Sanders only in the way that a shove is different from a push, they both move in the wrong direction. You can call it a technical difference if you want to, but the end result will be absolutely the same.


Well, the worldview that America adopts for the next few decades is up to us. It depends on what we do as individuals, if you want your children and grandchildren to grow up in a free nation where there’s free enterprise and capitalism and religious liberty and all the things you think of when you think of the Constitution, and America, if you want that to happen, then you as a citizen have to do your part to help preserve and pass that to the next generation.

Socialism And The Trump Card – With Dinesh D’Souza

If you want them to grow up in a socialist or communist country, if you want them to grow up in a place where they got to stand in line just to get bread, just to be able to do even exist, let alone be able to thrive, right, if you want that for your children, which no one does, but it happens around the world all the time, just look at Venezuela, and what’s happened there. In the movie, Trump Card, Dinesh does such a good job of showing the destruction that happened in Venezuela when they adopted these horrible policies and elected people willing to put those policies in place.

If you want to prevent that in America, then you got to do your part, you got to vote. You got to make sure that you’re exercising your right to vote, that you’re encouraging others to do the same, and you got to help educate your friends and family and influence the process. So listen to WallBuilders Live, visit our website

We’re always giving you action steps and ways to make a difference out there. And one of those is to watch Trump Card, and share it with your friends and family. Another is to become a Constitution coach and teach the Constitution in your home and at your church and in any group that you can get those materials in front of, it’s entirely free.

Go to, get signed up today, and share that material with your friends and family. Help us restore America’s Constitution. Help us preserve this freedom for future generations.

Thanks for listening today to WallBuilders Live.