Socialism From A Biblical Perspective, What The 10 Commandments Say: Today we talk with Bob McEwen on why socialism is bad and how we can explain that to the younger generation.  Learn what the Bible and the 10 Commandments say about socialism versus free market.

Air Date: 08/08/2017

Guests: Bob McEwen, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times.  We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green,  I’m a former Texas state rep, national speaker, and author.

Find out more about us and the program at WallBuildersLive.com. It”€™s got a list of all of our stations you can listen to. It’s got archives of the programs from last few months and a lot of other great information.

I also want to encourage you to visit WallBuilders.com. That’s our main website where you can find out more about the ministry, more about the different things we’re working on and doing, and you can get a lot of resources and great information right there on the Website.

A Growing Belief In America

We’re going to have former Congressman Bob McEwen with us later in the program. Right now, we’re here with David and Tim. This is a topic that, believe it or not, a lot of Americans are actually becoming for and that is Socialism. Actually, a word that doesn’t carry the same stigma that it used to. For some reason, we just don’t realize the Socialism is very bad.

David:

We covered this a week ago on our program and talked about it and even the stats on it. The stats were staggering! We looked at Iowa and what was happening there. It’s unbelievable how many people are moving toward it. But we also noted that nobody knows how to define it, nobody knows historically what it is.

Tim:

This summer as we’ve done a lot of leadership training within the College and a high school level, something that certainly we see with the next generation is they are being taught this is a positive thing, “€œSocialism is good.”€ Even as you guys just identified, we talked about this last week. Most people don’t know how to define it but especially college kids today.

At our college leadership training program this summer, one of the things that we heard so often from these college students is that all of their friends are turning to Socialism. They’re becoming Socialists. So how do we unfold that? What does that mean? How do we communicate with them the values they’re embracing? What does that really mean?

One of the challenges that many of these college leaders were explaining is that their friends, not only do they define their own terms when it comes to Socialism, but they define their own moral code, their own moral standards, so it’s totally subjective, it’s how I feel. So we really had to walk through a process of how to unfold that and get beyond where subjective morality subjective reality is ok because there are so many flaws in that thought. But this is where the next generation really is and what they’re embracing is truth.

We Were Falsely Taught

Rick:

Is because, I mean, is this just an education issue? Is it just because we’ve allowed the universities and the schools to talk about Socialism in a positive light and downplay Capitalism? Even our terminology used in my generation it was, “€œEvil Capitalist Pig.”€ I mean, we made Capitalism bad every chance that we could. Is that starting to take its toll just in the cultural mindset?

Tim:

I would certainly say yes, capitalism has been very much labeled stereotype as a very negative thing. I still don’t know how you can go through high school or college economics class and come out thinking Socialism is a good idea. I don’t know what model you point to, what nation you point to.

You go historically, “€œThey became Socialists and they remained economically productive, and they were a top economic producer, and they were top financial income earners when they went Socialist.”€ There is no nation, there’s no precedent for that. So how do you even take a basic economics course and come out thinking that?

It boggles my mind how we can arrive at these conclusions. But certainly, in the midst of it, we are taught that Capitalism is extremely bad. “€œWe need to stay away from Capitalism because that’s what lets the wealthy get wealthier and it keeps the poor in poverty etc.”€ Which, of course, is not true at all. But that is a stereotype around it.

David:

And think about, Tim just made the comment.  He said, “€œCapitalism has received a negative label.”€ But let me also remind you of what else has received a negative label in the same period of time.

The Constitution certainly has. That’s also a negative label. American exceptionalism certainly has. Things like truth. I mean, there’s no truth, you can’t know truth. Things like-

Tim:

Male and female.

David:

That’s right. Marriage and sexuality. Think about all the things that now have received a negative label. All these things that had been really the core of civilization for fifty five hundred years.  

Then think about the fact that right now with the study that was done earlier this year of the top 76 universities in America 65 of them do not require history majors to take a single course in American history. So if you have no history at all you don’t know consequences, you can’t judge consequences if you don’t study history then you’ll never find out the Socialism has never worked and that the free market has always worked, you’ll never find that.

If there’s no truth then let me tell you that if you jump off the Empire State Building gravity will not take you down it will take you upward, you will not hit the ground. I mean, we have taken out any basis of measure for being able to say, “€œThat’s a lie.”€ rather than truth because truth doesn’t exist.

Just for grins, let me throw out the definition of Socialism just so we understand what we’re talking about here. Because one generation of the boomers will say, “€œSocialism is really bad.”€ Millennials will say, “€œHey, Socialism is really good.”€ And now the new Gen Z kids, they particularly are getting how great Socialism is.

If Millennials Were To Know What Socialism Means

So let me give you the online Oxford definition of Socialism. “€œIt’s a political and economic theory of social organization.”€ Think about social organization, that”€™s everything you do, that’s a whole society, that’s your life, your culture, your government, your education, it’s everything. That’s the theory of social organization, that advocates that the means of production distribution and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Now, if things are owned and regulated by the community, by definition, what does that exclude? Individual stuff. So I cannot have private property.  Now I”€™ll bet you most of these kids want private property. If you took away their electronics they would yell at you. But wait a minute, with Socialism you don’t get private property, it belongs to the community as a whole and it is to be regulated by the whole.

By the way, if you get a car anybody can use it and if you’ve got a house anybody can come in and out as they want. If they were to know what it meant they would not like it. By their own experience, they like their stuff and they want to keep their stuff. And so does everybody.

Those that have open borders, my first question to them has always been. So you don’t have locks on the door to your house right? Because you want anybody to come in your house any time they want to come? “€œOh no, I lock my house.”€ Why can’t the nation lock its borders? Why do you believe in private property for you but not for the nation?

So that’s part of what they don’t know is the definition of it. And I guess if I were to boil it down to a really short way of saying it, what we’re talking about here is a system where that you have no winners and no losers, everybody gets a participation trophy. That’s as much as you’re going to get.

If I’m the MVP I get nothing more than if I sit on the bench for the entire season. We get participation trophies, we will not recognize greatness or inferiority, and we’re going to take everything to separate metal and that is mediocrity. That, in essence, is part of the background that they do not get anything about. They’re just told that this is a great glamorous glorious life and that everything is more fair with Socialism. Except once you implement it they would never like it.

Rick:

Yeah, they don’t get much about the actual results. They don’t see the bad evidence that shows up every time that Socialism is tried. Of course, former Congressman Bob McEwen is so good at explaining that and giving those examples and laying out the difference between Socialism and Capitalism. He”€™ll be joining us in a few minutes when we come back from the break. Former Congressman Bob McEwen when we return on WallBuilders Live.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Founding Fathers John Adams and Thomas Jefferson originally worked closely together but later became ardent opponents.

This troubled Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration, who knew both of them very well. In the Bible, 2 Corinthians 5:18 tells us that God has given each of us the ministry of reconciliation. Dr. Rush believed this and set out to bring the two back together.

It took a while, but Adams and Jefferson once again became close friends. Looking back on his role in helping bring about this reconciliation Dr. Rush stated, “€œIt will give me pleasure as long as I live to reflect that. I have been in any degree instrumental in effecting this reunion of two souls destined to be dear to each other and motivated with the same dispositions to serve their country, though in different ways.”€

For more information about Dr. Benjamin Rush and his other remarkable achievements go to WallBuilders.com.

Socialism Discourages Production

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our good friend former Congressman Bob McEwen who is now at Council for National Policy. Congressman, always good to have you brother.

McEwen:

The honor and pleasure is mine. Thank you very much.

Rick:

Well, good to have you back. And of course, as always, we get a question on Socialism vs Capitalism. Barton says, “€œGet Bob, I’ve got to have Bob on he’s always good at this stuff.”€ I had a mom actually say, “€œLook, my own kid is going with Bernie Sanders in the last election and defending Socialism and I’ve tried to explain, can you please help me in simple terms explain why this is a bad deal and Socialism has never worked?”€ And we said, “€œNo, but Congressman McEwen can.”€ So there you go.

McEwen:

Well, there’s a lot of ways to approach it. But very simply, what is socialism? Socialism says, “€œIf you vote for me, I will take from that person and give to you.”€ Very simply, “€œI’m going to have the government provide this for you.”€ How does the government get anything? It first steals from someone else.

Now, that obviously does two bad things. One, it punishes the person that created the wealth in the first place, “€œYou made that for you, and your family, and your community? You worked hard, and you raised all that corn, and chased those hogs in the middle of the night, and you did everything necessary. I’m going to take it away from you and give it to this person over there.”€

That discourages the person from producing but it rewards the person who didn’t produce. And of course people can voluntarily do that according to the Scriptures and we’re entitled to do that. But no place does it ever mention that government should do such a thing.

In fact, it preached against it. Because it rewards people who don’t produce and it punishes people who do produce which makes everybody poor. The degree to which you have that is the degree to which you have poverty in a nation.

So you line up all the nations in the world and you find out the freer the nation is the wealthiest, the greater the Socialism is the poorest. And we understand why, as I just explained it. The richest nation in all of Latin America 10 years ago, Venezuela. Now as you know, there are no dogs or cats because they’ve eaten them. The average Venezuelan has lost 22 pounds etc.

What Does The Bible Say About Socialism

Scripturally, there’s an explanation for that. When Moses was trying to lead the people, the children of Israel, he was wearing himself out answering all these questions. His father in law, Jethro, came up to him and said, “€œNo, you must separate the people. Put those in charge of thousands hundreds and tens.”€ Local government, state government, and national government. He said, “€œNow, who should be a ruler? Who do you want to choose to handle these problems?”€ So there are three criteria. Number one, those that fear God, lovers of truth, and haters of, they use the term “€œcovetousness.”€ That means taking what somebody else has.

Rick:

Which is what Socialism does.

McEwen:

That is, haters of Socialism. Why? Now, if you’re God and you’re trying to say, “€œHere’s what you look for. Number one, either believe that man is supreme or God is supreme.”€  So we want the people that believe the Word of God.

Number two, you can’t have a relationship with a person that is a liar. You can’t have a marriage relationship, you can have a business relationship, you have to have lovers of truth. People that when they sign a document they’re going to honor it.

Then number three, the economic system has to be this, those that hate Socialism or hate covetousness.

The nations that have followed that leadership prosper and Socialism will create poverty every time. It’s also evil. It’s taking from people that you’re not entitled to. If you take it you’re called a criminal. If you hire the Mafia, if you hire a hitman to go and steal from somebody else to give it to you you’re just as accountable as the hitman was. If you hire a politician who came to office and asked somebody else to give you something you didn’t earn, you’re just as accountable as he is.

The Whole Nation Would Suffer

Rick:

So in America, we are moving toward Socialism, have been for many years. Certainly, even culturally that many people getting behind Bernie Sanders last time has got to concern you in terms of people not knowing the clarity of the difference that you just described.

McEwen:

Well, we can just drive across the country. What I’ve said in my speeches is, “€œNow that you know that principle you can lend it to Buenos Aires, or Cairo, or Bangladesh, or – and you can just tell. Rent a car drive around for an hour get back and leave.

The poverty will tell you the percentage of Socialism that they have. Now, you have it in downtown Los Angeles, you have it in New York City, you have it in Cleveland, and Detroit.

Detroit was the richest city in the world when I was young. It’s now the poorest city in North America. So when you elect people who want to steal from the productive and give it- If a criminal stands on a street corner and every time you drive through that street corner they come along steal half your money, you’re not going to drive through there anymore.

And if you have a city when you drive through that city they’re going take half your money, you don’t drive through the city anymore. So the businesses have left Detroit, the population is lower than it was in 19 hundred, there are 48,000 single family homes that are abandoned, Socialism creates poverty.

And when young people, or people in Detroit, or people in Cleveland, people in Philadelphia, when they vote for that, that’s what they do. And when they do it for our whole nation then we all suffer.

Rick:

So it’s not just theory. You just gave the real world examples. I mean, this is happening now and we see the results firsthand. We’ve got to learn from that, and like you said, vote for people that will get rid of that Socialism and bring back that Capitalism.

I’ve heard you say before that there’s nothing about our country or our local communities that can’t be fixed with the right leadership.

McEwen:

Yep, and freedom only works every time.

Rick:

I love it. Always good to have you, brother! Politics, easy as pie! Folks, you can get it today at WallBuilders.com. Go to Bob’s Website, tons of great resources, BobMcEwen.com.  Keep up the great work, brother, let’s get you back soon.

McEwen:

Rick, it”€™s an honor.

Rick:

Stay with us folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders”€™ library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution.  You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at WallBuilders.com.

“€œBut What If Socialism Was Done Better”€

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live, thanks to former Congressman Bob McEwen for joining us earlier. We’re back with David and Tim Barton. Still talking about Socialism. David, Tim, wow. He just decimated the whole experiment of Socialism in America using Detroit and several other great examples there. It’s true, literally, in just a few short years once you implement those socialist policies it just destroys everything.

Tim:

Rick, just because historically it’s always happened that way doesn’t mean we can’t be the exception though, right?

David:

It would be the first time in 5,500 years to work.

Tim:

Anytime he comes on and talks with these details there’s always elements-  obviously, I know my position, I know where I stand, what I believe, and certainly what he says lines up. I don’t have any doubt Socialism is bad. I understand the free market Capitalism individual enterprise, individual responsibility, I’m on board with all that.

But every time he says something related to Socialism I’m learning new things. Such as, in Venezuela, they lost 22 pounds each on average when they’re eating cats and dogs. In fact, now you have a hard time finding cats and dogs in the nation because they consumed-

David:

Let’s send PETA to Venezuela. That would be a great place for PETA and the human rights stuff. Let”€™s send down there to save the cats and dogs while the people starve.

Tim:

It’s remarkable when you have examples like this where Socialism has been implemented. And of course, people can argue, “€œWell, that’s not really, Socialism should be different. That’s not really how it works.”€ I would love to know what a Socialist thinks they did wrong that made it not work.

Because it seems like this is what happens in every nation that implements Socialism. You give it time and eventually, you run out of somebody else’s money. And I love the way Bob breaks it down. When you are punishing the productive you are rewarding the unproductive. So ultimately, you are encouraging people to be unproductive which is where it ends up ultimately in Socialism. It’s just not that complicated. But he explains it I think probably better than anybody else.

David:

I love the fact that he kind of put out a measuring stick by which you can judge a nation. If you don’t know what form of government a nation has see whether it has prosperity or poverty.

If it’s got poverty, check the government and you’ll find Socialism. If it has prosperity check the government and you’ll find free market. I thought, “€œThat’s a fairly interesting way to go at it.”€ Taking a nation of the world, see if it”€™s prosperous or not, if it’s not you’ll track it back to Socialism. That’s a direct correlation.

If it’s prosperous you’ll track it back to free market. That’s a pretty easy measuring stick that you can use to tell what kind of government has. Again, if you like prosperity then it’s not going to be Socialism that produces it, not anywhere in the history of the world, period.

Rick:

Quick break.  We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Biographical Sketches

Hi, friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at WallBuilders.com.

America”€™s History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. Since the Ten Commandments have formed the basis of civil law in the western world for over 2,000 years and an individual is more likely to find a copy of them in a government building rather than a religious one. Yet, amazingly, numerous rulings over recent years now make it unconstitutional to display the commandments in many public arenas.

Consider what Founding Father John Adams said about this, he declared, “€œThe moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, anarchy and tyranny commence. If “€˜thou shall not covet”€™ and “€˜thou shall not steal”€™ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”€

John Adams believed that no society could remain civilized if separated from the Ten Commandments. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.  

What About The Scientific Studies

Rick:

Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live! Still talking about Socialism, we”€™re back with David and Tim Barton. Guys, I don’t think you can drive this home enough. The evidence is overwhelming. David, as you were saying, I mean everywhere you go you see the effect whenever Socialism is implemented.As Bob McEwen was saying, whenever you put liberty principles, in place the more freedom you see the more likely there is capitalism implemented and not Socialism.

Tim:

Those are revealed truths. Those are things that are self-evident in nature. It’s something, however, that the next generation does not realize as self-evident. So even though we have an easy measuring stick, you can look and go, “€œHey, wait a second. They’re struggling economically. There’s too much government control.”€

Whether it be Socialism leads to Communism, whether it be Rascism, there’s something there that’s not rewarding, individually responsibility. That’s not rewarding effort, and labor, and productivity.

So you really can see a very clear contrast. But it’s something the next generation does not fully grasp. This is one of those areas that if we’re intentional, very easily we can reclaim this. Because all of history, all of reality around us, is on the side of truth.

In this situation, where we’re not having to battle something that, as you look at climate change, this could be a battle with the next generation because you have all these “€œscientific studies”€ that show global warming and these ice caps melting, and you have to fight things that they see around them. But it’s been written from a certain perspective to really skew a lot of facts.

This is hard to write from a perspective to skew facts. This is hard to find any evidence to support Socialism and to counter the free enterprise, individual responsibility, work ethic, labor-

David:

See, that’s why you don’t teach history, that way you avoid consequences. Now you won’t find out consequences 30 years in the future when it doesn’t work for you and you’re wondering why.

Then somebody says, “€œWell, you should have read these authors.”€ Oh my gosh, they all said the same. And that’s part of the way they’re getting this done. You take away the teaching of history, then you can take away showing what consequences are for certain ideas, and then you can advocate ideas that have never worked because you’ve got nothing to show they’re wrong.

The Ten Commandments Talks About Socialism

Tim:

And there’s no doubt, I completely agree with that. But this is where I think it’s actually very positive where we are in the sense of this is an easy one to reclaim. This is not going to be a really hard battle to win. Other than I feel like probably the biggest difficulty getting the next generation whether it’s millennials, or Gen Z, kind of that age group you’re talking to.

They’re going to say, “€œOh, but it’s not loving, people would fail.”€ And then you have a different conversation about allowing people to fail and sometimes that’s where you learn and that’s where you get up off of your feet.

In fact, even the parable of the prodigal son. One of the most significant verses in the entire parable is when the prodigal son goes out and he’s spent all his money, all his wealth, he”€™s gone, he’s out in the slop with the pigs, and as he”€™s in the slop with the pigs he says, “€œI want to eat the pig food I’m so hungry.”€

And it says when no one gave him anything, then he came to his senses and said, “€œWait a second, my dad’s servants live better than this. I should just go back and be a servant. Not even sonship in my dad’s house, just be a servant for my dad.”€

But the significant verse is when no one gave him anything then he came to his senses. And actually that’s at the end of one verse and the beginning of the next verse. But that verse when no one gave him anything, that’s a turning point in the prodigal son’s life. And this is where you can say, “€œWait a second, we can’t allow people to fail.”€

We could talk about there’s a difference when you have the orphan, when you have the widow, when you have the handicapped, there can be a nuance difference for sure. But when you have people physically capable of work, and we’re saying, “€œWait a second, no, we shouldn’t force them to get a job. We should just give them something for doing nothing.”€ You can really talk through this process.

Again, this is a winnable topic. But it’s something that our listeners, everybody here right now, you should think, “€œYou know what, I’m going to make sure that I engage in this subject with people of the next generation to help reclaim this lost understanding of rewarding individual labor, ethic, and individual responsibility.”€ Which is certainly what the Bible teaches.

David:

And Tim, you said that every time you hear him you get a new tidbit out of it and I had the same thing this time. As much as I’ve heard Bob, there was something- I feel like in Hook when the guy said, “€œCaptain, I’ve had an apostrophe.”€ “€œI think you mean an epiphany.”€ “€œWell, whatever it is.”€

I had never directly related Socialism to the 10th Commandment, it’s about covetousness. It’s about wanting what other has without doing anything for it. And the 10th Commandment says, “€œDon’t want your neighbor’s house, or wife, or a land, or servant.”€ And with Socialism, it’s wanting what others have and it’s wanting it for me without having to do anything to get it. And I never really have seen Socialism as a violation of the ten commandments but it clearly is because of the covenant aspect.

Thanks For Listening To Bob McEwen On Socialism

Rick:

As Tim said, every one of us have a responsibility to talk about this, to influence others on this, we’ve got to win this argument in the hearts and minds of the American people. If we’re going to restore that capital, and restore the financial benefit, and the spiritual benefit, and all those benefits that we talked about today. Let’s all do our part, thanks for listening today! Thanks to Congressman Bob McEwen for joining us. You’ve been listening to all WallBuilders Live!