State Legislatures Fight Against Marxism – With Ken Mercer: How did our children learn to hate our nation? How did Howard Zinn’s history book, full of inaccuracies, affect education? What is the Marxist strategy to destroy a nation (in order to put a new system in place)? How are states fighting back against Critical Race Theory and the 1619 Project? Tune in to hear Ken Mercer, from the Texas State Board of Education, discuss the state of American education!

Air Date: 05/25/2021

Guest: Ken Mercer

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Thanks for joining us today on WallBuilders Live, where we’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, Tim Burton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders, and I’m Rick Green, former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach.

You can learn more about all three of us and the program at, where you can also get archives the program from the last few weeks and get a list of all the stations we’re on across the country. And also share the program, really want to emphasize that today. Be a force multiplier, go to the website, take links to the program, and spread it out there on your social media. 

Get more people plugged into this program so they can stay informed and get equipped. It’s a great way to make a difference both locally and of course in your state legislators. We talked about that a lot.

And guys, we’ll be talking about that today as well, legislation going through state legislatures across the country on education. And really, people are putting their finger on the problem that we’re facing right now. With all the things that have happened over the last year and the Marxism that’s been taught to our kids, they hate our country. 

You know, it we got to be the only nation in history that taught our children to hate their own nation, and we’re seeing the negative results of that. And so some legislators and some states are saying enough is enough. Let’s stop pouring the poison in and let’s start teaching the good stuff again.


Yeah, guys, it does seem crazy that we live in an era where we think it’s really good to destroy the very fabric of what makes America, America. And some people would argue no, that is good, because we need to change what makes America, America, except instead of saying hey, let’s go in and you know, we’re going to remodel the house, and let’s fix this and fix that. 

Howard Zinn’s Inaccurate History

They say no, we’re going to bring in a bulldozer, push the whole thing over, we’re going to build something brand new, not recognizing the fact that what has happened in America has been so unique compared to the rest of the world.

And the fact that no nation has been able to sustain the things we’ve enjoyed in America so long, whether it be freedom or stability or prosperity, things that so many people take for granted, because they don’t recognize how special it is. 

And even looking at some of these critical race theory ideas, so much of it seems rooted going back to the Howard Zinn’s terrible history of the American people, which has been so disproven historically shown to have so many faults in it.

And yet, the critical race theory is repeating so many of those narratives that are simply historically inaccurate, like what the 1619 project reporter do, saying that America largely is the one that built this institution of slavery and America is so bad because a slavery in America is unique because of slavery. These are the kinds of things that Howard Zinn was trying to say. And a lot of people bought into this Howard Zinn notion, it’s just historically so inaccurate. 

And what it does is it is very much following the Marxist ideology where you need to have different classes, you need to have different groups of people, and you need to have them war against the other people so you can have the oppressed rise up against the oppressor, and therefore they can overthrow the oppressor and they can start their new regime.

This is very much what Karl Marx taught. It’s what is the outflow of what Howard Zinn did and we are now saying, guys, this unfold before us. And people have so bought into this lie of how bad America is. And we’ve said this for a long time, I have said this for years and years and years.

And, I tell this to college students every single year, every single summer, when we do our college program, right, I tell this to our college students, is if you want to get perspective of America, you need to get with your church or find a church that’s going on mission trips around the world and go on a mission trip in some third world nation. 

Blessed to be an American

Go live in a third world nation for two weeks, for a month, for two months for a year, go see how other nations of the world do it, and then come back to America and realize how blessed you are to be in America. Because we don’t have perspective on the rest of the world, because we don’t know what is historically or constitutionally true, we’re getting such bad perspectives.

And I think that’s why a lot of legislators, a lot of states have embraced some of this just utter nonsense of critical race theory is because we don’t have perspective, we don’t know what’s true, and they’ve so bought into a lie.


And it seems to me like the critical race theory is kind of like a fellow traveler with some other philosophies that are going right now, seems like they’re all kind of moving down the road together, almost like a pack. And we talk about them separately, but it really seems to me that the kind of intertwined. 

And let me just take Marxism. It seems like critical race theory and Marxism kind of go together. They have kind of same objectives. Get they’re a little different, but they’re like first cousins or something.

And Marxism, Tim, you just kind of mentioned it, you need two sides fighting. You got to have two sides going after each other. And so somehow you have to break into groups where that one group can be the oppressed, one group is the oppressor, and you want the oppressed to rise up against the oppressor. 

Kind of in that philosophy, since we’re trying to create conflict, we don’t care who the two opposing groups are, because the conflict is going to help us to in a society and move it forward.


And then this was something from Marx. Marx didn’t say that the oppressed need to be a certain kind of people. And Marx ideology was just outlining that there is always an oppressed. And if you don’t find someone who’s oppressed, you need to help them realize they are oppressed.

And this is part of what critical race theory teaches, is that if you are a certain skin color, or a certain ethnicity, or a certain gender, you have been oppressed, and you might not realize it, so let us show you how you have been oppressed. They are creating levels of oppression in people’s minds in many places where there has not been oppression. 

Marxist Ideology

But in Marxist ideology, you need the oppressed, and therefore, it doesn’t matter who they are, doesn’t matter what they look like, if they’re left handed, or if they’re blue eyed, or redhead.

Like it doesn’t matter, you pick somebody and then you show them how they have been oppressed and you through showing them how they’ve been oppressed then encourage them to rise up against the oppressor, so they can overthrow the oppressor and now we can usher in a new regime.


And so with that conflict, what you get into is, it’s almost like the social Darwinism. And Darwin, the survival of the fittest, we need groups that fight each other. And that’s going to help the culture if we can have fights. And at that point, it’s like who’s got the greatest brute strength? 

I mean, who has the biggest army or can assemble. It’s kind of what James Otis called the point of a sword, and what John Quincy Adams called the Law of the Tiger and the Shark. And so you have a conflict in fighting society. And that’s what they’re looking for. And that’s evidently in their mind, what makes it whole.

But when you look at biblical teachings, Jesus doesn’t go that way: a house divided cannot stand. He doesn’t want to see that division, it’s going to happen. And there is actually a false theological view that they call dualism. This is kind of where Marxism goes. He says hey, and now Marxism doesn’t have a God view. 

But the false theological view says, you know, Satan and God are brothers, and they’re equal. And if one was stronger than the other, the universe will be out of balance and those two forces have to compete with each other. And that’s what makes the universe healthy. That is bad doctrine. That’s bad belief. 

And that’s what Marxism is. You got the same kind of bad belief is not theologically applied. But it’s the same kind of silly stuff that will divide a nation, will divide a people, it will ensure the end of a society, it will not bring stability.

It Destroys


Yeah. And let’s clarify, this doesn’t just divide a nation or people, this destroys a nation.


That’s true.


Right. Because it’s one thing, I mean, go back over the Civil War, the Civil War was not about Marxism. There was a divide in the nation, and it caused a fracture in the nation. But it did not stop the nation from being a nation. 

I mean, obviously, after the war, right, a lot of issues, a lot of problems, there’s still a lot of healing needs take place in some areas. But even with Jesus, Jesus was not again about destroying a nation. But I mean, he was not always in favor of blind unity, because he talked about division at times. But it’s what’s the point of division? It’s division, we’re standing up for what is true, that’s different than saying how…

Because Marx’s idea was how can we destroy the existing system? How can you destroy the establishment? How can you replace it? How can you do something different? 

And how you replace, it was actually kind of a strategy, a long term, long game strategy for how do you destroy a nation to put something new in place? How do you destroy the status quo? How do you change it all?

And this was the idea of, well, this is where you need the oppressed, you point out that somebody is the oppressor. Even if they haven’t been the oppressor, we’re going to make them the oppressor, because maybe they have the money or they have the nice cars, or they have the jobs, right?

They own the business, whatever it is. You find somebody they’re the oppressor, you make somebody else the oppressed. And the goal, certainly, I mean, dad, you’re right, to bring division.

But I would think even more than division, it was about bringing destruction, because they’re trying to destroy something that was there and not over legitimate causes. Again, back up the Civil War, Civil War, you could argue that was a pretty legitimate cause, right, that fissure in the nation saying:

Hey, those that were in favor slavery, those that were against slavery, that’s a pretty substantial reason for there to be a divide. When you look in Marxism, they were oftentimes fabricating the issue by saying, look, you’ve been oppressed. And the idea was to bring destruction to the status quo, to destroy the nation, to destroy that and start over.

Learn from History

And I think your point is so important that this is where when you look at critical race theory, when you look at the 1619 project, the fellow travelers is Marxism. And Marxism, every time Marxism has been implemented in a nation, not only has it brought down the economic incentives in the nation, there’s less economic stability, the people have less money. It also has brought down the freedoms of the individual and it’s led to a very oppressive government, where not only is the government take away your rights, the government then also has political enemies and prisoners and they get thrown in jail. And in worst case scenarios, oftentimes they are executed.

 And this is where when you look at Marxist regimes back in the 20th century, more than 100 million people died following that Marxist kind of ideology and these communists and socialist regimes. This is where it’s so destructive. And this is part of what arguably could be some of the outflow of critical race theory.

And that’s something that we actually saw just in the last couple weeks in Texas where there was a big debate on the House floor in Texas about a bill saying that we don’t want to teach critical race theory in Texas. And there were some Democrats who said, yes, we do want to teach this. And actually, many times there was a lone republican standing there at the podium saying:

No, we’re not going to do this, here’s what we’re going to do. That bill did get passed, which is the really good news but these are the fights…


And that’s the bill that bans teaching critical race theory in Texas. So that’s what he was doing. He was defending the fact that we don’t want this in Texas and that is what passed.

Pushing Back


And so, this is really good news. But these are the kind of fights that we are seeing happening around the nation right now.


Yeah, and unbelievably, I mean, Steve Toth almost standalone in fighting that battle. There were a few people that help. But you would think the entire Republican caucus would be working hard to do this. But congrats to Steve Toth for getting that bill passed in the House and in other states and governors that are leading on this. 

Ron DeSantis was the first one months ago to say this will not be taught in our schools and in our state. So hopefully, we can keep pushing back on this.

One of the guys is just a real expert on this, served on the State Board of Education for years former legislator, good friend of our program here and of both you guys and myself, Ken Mercer is going to be with us when we come back from the break to talk about this and how he’s had to deal with this with textbooks and everything else. Stay with us, Ken Mercer, our special guests now WallBuilders Live.


Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And yet what we see through history, and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. 

The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to and check out The American Story.


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. So good to have our friend Ken Mercer back on, former legislator in Texas and State Board of Education. And Ken, always good to have you, brother, thanks for coming back on. You’re still in the throes of this fight over critical race theory. And we appreciate your expertise and taking some time to share with us a little bit today.

Welcome Ken Mercer


Thank you, Rick. And God bless WallBuilders radio. This is fantastic.


Hey, man, well, you’ve been in the trenches on all of these educational fights for years, and specifically at the State Board of Education for many years, dealing with the textbooks the standards on history. You’ve seen the Left trying to worm their way into our classrooms for years. 

So I know our main topic today is critical race theory. But first, can you just give us an update on where you see that battle in Texas? I mean, I know nationally, we’ve lost many of these states where they’re now pumping this poison into the kids all over the place. How are we doing in Texas on these battles?


I’m a little concerned. I know there’s issues coming out right now for half legislation. But I’m concerned because things always slip in. You and I fought for years about some of the political revisionist. And we thought it wouldn’t get any worse, and then Common Core happened. And we thought it wouldn’t get any worse, and now we have a CRT, Critical Race Theory and a 1619 project and our kids are…

I’ve got one professor from Africa that I’m communicating with, he says what’s wrong with American students? Well, they think it’s slavery. That United States invented slavery, and worldwide slavery began in the year 1619. Rick, how about that? It’s just a lie from the pit of hell.


No kidding. I mean, even I‘ve try to remember who the guy was senator from Virginia that ran, was VP candidate for, I forget who anyway, Tim Kaine, that’s his name. I mean, here, you got it. I think he’s an Ivy League grad. 

Lies About Our History

And he stands on the floor of the US senate and says what you just said they’re trying to get in our classrooms, that America invented slavery, which, if you read the Bible, it’s going to be kind of hard to back up that argument that American…




Don’t think America was run in Joseph’s day. Maybe. Maybe. But anyway, yeah, so I mean the historical inaccuracies are off the charts, but yet, they’re getting that into the textbooks and into the classrooms.


And I mean, very well educated kids, and some professors believe it. And as you said, there’s two things. First of all, they negated the story of Exodus which is 3,000 years before 1619 is like 1500 BC, you know that story because now they’re saying that’s just a myth, Rick, that actually it never happened. But worldwide slavery is over 8,000 years old of human slavery.

So it’s just a, and I will go even further, the part of the most powerful slave trade was called the Arab Muslim slave trade, and oh, that was in 700 AD. So 700 years before Columbus discovered America, 1,000 years before our Declaration of Independence was the Arab Muslim slave trade in Africa. And yet there’s no… Larry elder talks about, he said I’ve been through years of a Black History Month and they’d never told us about the Arab Muslim slave trade how bad that was. But I’ll stop there.


Well, and let me ask you the reason why. Like, what is their goal? Why pin this on America falsely, and try to make it like we’re worse than we were? I mean, we’re all sinners, every nation is full of sin, we’ve seen slavery in every nation, I mean, all those things. Why try to make us worse than we actually were?


You and David Barton taught me years ago that the people who revise history don’t just rewrite it, they omit things which is really important. Because if you and I were living and your listeners right now, 1776, we know what not one nation entire world had move to abolish slavery, no one in the world, including the nations of Africa had moved to abolish slavery.

Christians Abolishing Slavery

And you know what? This is ironic. There was a wake up moment and it was called the Great Awakening. 

When Anglo Christian said, hey, human slavery is a sin, and we need to confront that sin, and that’s where the worldwide movement in the colonies which can in the United States and Europe, William Wilberforce, that’s where it all started. The goal to get rid of worldwide slavery was begun by the Great Awakening.


Yeah, they’re definitely not going to teach that, definitely not going to teach that. So let’s go to what they are teaching, this concentrated effort. It’s no longer just a story here or there or a particular teacher or particular textbook. 

When we say Critical Race Theory, CRT, man, this is an organized effort to take over the education system with this philosophy. How’s Texas doing on beating back critical race theory specifically, and then let’s get into the dangers of that theory?


Right now, we’re still holding our own, but it never passes the Mercer’s smell test, because we had laws without law, for example, Common Core. Common Core was illegal. But I would do six years of testimony as your parents are coming forth and showing me where there’re districts in Texas, there are 1,200 districts in Texas School districts, they were still teaching Common Core. They would show me math things that had Common Core to bottom.

So right now, it should not be taught. But I’m not surprised if it is. There are people who would try to override that. And we need to hold our own. We needed to stand up. I’m hoping if someone comes out, the governor, it takes a special session to make sure we have a bill that says this will not come to Texas.

But I want to caution, Rick, to your listeners, I apologize, that Texas sometimes we passed laws that have no teeth, Common Core is a good example. We had a wall, no Common Core, no penalty whatsoever, nothing in there. And I don’t know if they’d be civil or criminal. Well, that’s not my job, is the job of the House and Senate. 

But the good news is there’s no Common Core in Texas, the bad news, there’s nothing to stop Common Core. So I hope that we address that. Good shout unto the legislature in a special session, which there will be because they had to draw the maps, right, to add that on there to make sure the CRT is in there.

You Can Make the Difference


Yes, I think you’re exactly right. And of course, there is a bill going through, and we’ll see what happens. I think this is a great challenge to our listeners all over the country right now. Because even if your state passes some law about this, or if they haven’t passed a law, that does not prevent you.

In fact, it should encourage you to be active at the local level and actually take it upon yourself to investigate your local school district and find out what they’re doing and go to the school board meetings, ask questions about this. And if there is a law against it in your state, then be the catalyst, be the one in that local school district to hold that school board accountable to make sure this stuff isn’t happening.


Those are great words, because our listeners are friends who are maybe timid. You know what? It’s not you. It’s the law. If he had the law behind the law says the law of Senate Bill 101, whatever it is, says this, and CRT is illegal, you have that behind you to stand firm and stand strong on it and that’s critical. 

We can make a difference. We can make a difference. And in this time right now we need to go from the school house to the White House, Rick, we need to start taking things back.


Amen. Amen. Well, before I let you go, I want to come back to what you mentioned earlier and close with that, because that is also encouraging, where you were talking about the Great Awakening being what changed hearts and minds in your article, you mentioned that. 

We’re going to have a link to your article today at the website. Tell us a little bit more about that, because the church at that time played a role in radically changing the view of humans, of slavery, of this issue. And none of the ending of those things would have happened without the church.

Lynching Republicans


The church was just incredible. You look at things like the Emancipation Proclamation, or let’s look at the Department of Justice under Grant, you know, that was set up an answer to and maybe it was a Democrat party’s KKK: they were lynching blacks, and lynching white Republicans by the way who were trying to register blacks to vote. And they created the Department of Justice because of that, and Christians worked together.

There are three, I called the trilogy and constitutional members, you know, 13, 14, 15 abolition of slavery, citizenship for African Americans in the rise of African American male to vote, but African Americans cannot vote in 1870. So those three constitutional amendments had to be Christians work to pass that among the Anglo voters. 

Again, the African American male cannot vote, so they pass it some it requires, as you know, a supermajority of three-fourths of all states had to agree to the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment. And that’s Christians. That’s the Great Awakening doing it. That’s a miracle by itself that happened. And that’s the history we need to be taught.


Yeah. And then also encourage us then as the church now to stand up to critical race theory and to the Marxism that’s been poison in the minds of our children. The church can stop this, if they will be salt and light, if they will stand up and be biblical citizens today. You’ve seen it happen in Texas and some of these local school districts in places where churches have gotten involved and taken over school boards. When I say taken over, I mean, just run good candidates.

And I don’t know about you Ken, but I saw a lot of good candidates run this go around. In my own school district, I had five good candidates, there were nine that ran for three slots, five good candidates. I’ve never had that problem having to pick which good candidate to support. 

Usually, I’m running from all the bad candidates, I’m trying to find a good candidate. So I don’t know if you saw that same thing in your area or across Texas, but it was encouraging to me?


I look forward to working more and more. And I keep talking about building a farm league of people starting a local school boards and it doesn’t mean that if Ken Mercer’s in our local school board that I’m going to go to state rep or City Council. 

Build Candidates

I might be school board, God may call me after 20 years, that’s fine. But we need to start building candidates and local school boards right there at the very beginning, developing their precincts and neighborhoods and build from there.

I keep about taking America back, but if we’re going to go from the school house to the county courthouse or the State House or the US House to the White House, we need to start doing it for local school boards.


Amen. Amen. Good word, brother. Ken Mercer, God bless you, man. Thanks for coming on today and sharing with us. We’ll have a link to your article today, “What’s missing from our classrooms?” Appreciate you bro.


God bless you, Rick Green. Thank you, sir.


Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Moment from American History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently overturned the jury sentence of a man convicted of the brutal murder of a 71 year old woman because the prosecuting attorney had mentioned a Bible verse in the courtroom.

Yet consider what happened in the 1778 case, Respublica versus John Roberts. Thomas McCain, a signer of the Declaration of Independence was the Chief Justice of that court. And addressing John Roberts after the jury had sentenced him to death for treason, McCain told him, “You will probably have but a short time to live before you launch into eternity. 

It behooves you to repent of your evil deeds, to be incessant in prayers to the great and merciful God to forgive your manifold transgressions and sins, to teach you to rely on the merit and passion of a dear Redeemer. This prominent founding father actually delivered a salvation message to the defendant in the courtroom.

For more information on God’s hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1808REBUILD.


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. And thanks to Ken Mercer for joining us today as well. Back with David and Tim Barton. And of course, I mean, David, you’ve been fighting these types of battles for textbooks and what’s being taught in the classroom quite literally for decades. So this is nothing new to you.


It’s nothing new. But I think this is more serious than what we’ve seen in a while, because I think the national fatality, or the ending of a nation that can be brought about through this teaching is significant. And this is not just liberal stuff. This is the kind of stuff that destroys.

Hyphenated Americans

And I was reminded of a couple historical things is, even as we were talking to the beginning that Ken was talking about critical race theory, I was reminded of what Teddy Roosevelt did back in 1915, and a speech that was called “Hyphenated Americans.” 

And he says, look, I don’t like this hyphenated American thing, he said, we’re all Americans. We need to agree that we’re here in America and we want to see the best for America. And so this is part of that line.

He said, “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic.”

So in other words, you start looking at your group, rather than you’re part of a nation. And we’re all in this melting pot kind of thing together, which goes to a book that was published by the chief of naturalization, US Naturalization. And this is what that book told emigrants is ever coming into America. 

State Legislatures Fight Against Marxism – With Ken Mercer

And this was through World War I, World War II. I mean, we have decades of this. He says, “We came to America to get rid of the things that divide and to make sure the things that unite. The man who seeks to divide men for men, group from group, interest from interest in this great union is striking at its very heart.”

And that’s literally what critical race theory does. It tries to divide and separate. It strikes at the heart of the country.


You can be a part of stopping this in your particular state, make sure that you let your voice be heard. Literally, right now, write or call your state rep or state senator or both and let them know you don’t want critical race theory taught in our schools, that you don’t want this division of Americans, that you want to unite America not divided. 

And it starts with ending this critical race theory being taught to our kids. Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.