Continued Updates On The Status Of The Election – The fight to expose fraud continues. Curious to know what has happened over the weekend? Join us now for more day to day updates on the status of the election.

Air Date: 11/23/2020

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

 

Rick:

Welcome to intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live. Thanks for joining us today. We’re looking at things from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective, whatever the hot topic of the day is. Obviously, elections have dominated the conversation for the last few weeks, and they continue to do so. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And I have the honor of being here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian, and our founder here at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. Check us out at wallbuilderslive.com, to learn more, and also, that’s the place where you can make a contribution to allow this program to speak truth to as many people as possible. Every time you donate, that’s more people, we’re going to be able to reach with this truth and save America’s constitutional republic.

Check it out of wallbuilderslive.com, that’s where you can also listen to archives, and then go to wallbuilders.com for a wealth of resources to start getting educated. A lot of people asking what to do, David and Tim, as we talk about some of the things still happen in the last few days. As citizens, we shouldn’t just be sitting around, waiting to find out what happens, we should be taking action. And one of those things is studying and actually learning our history and learning the constitution, learning what makes a good society. If we realize there’s problems, we got to start looking for the right solutions, and we do that by looking at what the Bible and history and the Constitution can teach us.

So they can get those tools at wallbuilders.com. Start with Constitution Alive or Foundations of Freedom or the new book, “The American Story”, and that’s a great place to start because frankly, America has been under attack all year long. And you might be wondering, is America good or bad? What can our history tell us about that? If you get that book, you’re going to get the truth. So check that out at wallbuilders.com.

David, Tim, let’s talk about today, what’s happening right now all across the country? Still, a lot of States that we don’t know what’s going to happen. There’s been a lot of claims about what could happen or what’s out there. We even heard that the cracking was going to be released. I thought we were the cracking, like this show right here, these guys aren’t, we are. We’re claiming it, man. I don’t even know what the cracking is. It’s like some deep sea beast. Right?

Tim:

Well, and so just kind of along the lines of cracking? Yes, I’m not sure what genre or age we are speaking to if we said that we are cracking. But at least right, yeah, okay, the cracking and…

David:

Well, if you can be Hollywood and think Pirates of the Caribbean, then you got a better context.

Tim:

Of maybe not as individuals how we are cracking or “collacking” or getting along or something. Yeah, wait, maybe out of context of that one. So interesting, guys, as there was some buildup last week of this release of the cracking and then there was a press conference on Friday, which went on after we had recorded our show, and actually, several things over the weekend that happened that are pertinent, relevant for us to discuss today. And looking at what was said by Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis and Rudy Giuliani, a lot of significant allegations., and if what they are saying is true, this is one of the worst cases of voter fraud that you could imagine, certainly in American history. And it would go up there with lots of these communist dictator nations around the world, and certainly not what we want to see happen in America.

The challenges now, with these accusations, there’s a burden of proof that now you have to be able to validate these accusations. And even attorney Jenna Ellis commented that what they said was their opening statement and they were ready to get to court. They were excited to be able to present the evidence to verify these accusations they’re making. And frankly, guys, I hope they’re able to verify. It would give some level of confidence and assurance that maybe America is not as far gone ideologically as we thought, that maybe not the majority of Americans that are voting in favor of socialism, or voting in favor of ending unborn babies’ lives and so many devastating policy positions and moral positions from the Biden-Harris campaign ticket. And so this could be very promising reassuring.

But at this point, it’s just all accusations, speculation until something is proven. And so that’s kind of where we left off over the weekend. What happened on Friday, certainly lots of things happened with court decisions and other things as well. But that was part of a big deal Friday with the release of the cracking. There was a lot of cracking accusation, just not a lot of cracking proof yet, so maybe the cracking is not fully been released, and hopefully, there will be evidence of that. Because either way, we want to have assurance that what happens in the election process can be trusted. And at this point, there’s a lot of reasons to doubt the trustworthiness of the election. So either way, hopefully, there will be conclusion and closure to the process that can give Americans assurance of what we have going forward can be trusted.

David:

But to take that analogy you just use, Tim, this is like the opening argument. That’s where you make a lot of flamboyant, really big claims. You know, you’re going to have a trial over the course to see how many of those you can prove, and the Jury is going to come back and say, well, here’s what you actually proved. So these are big claims, and they were discussed all weekend long. And they’ve created some controversy and tension between what had apparently been friends before. Sidney Powell, apparently, now she and Tucker Carlson had a big falling out, because Tucker said, well, send me your proof, and she sent the proof and he said, well, that’s not proof. And so now they’re really kind of having a falling out. So people are demanding proof of this point for sure.

Tim:

Well, and it’s worth noting that the proof, apparently, right, we didn’t see everything, but the proof that she says that she sent to Tucker was a sworn affidavit. And a sworn affidavit is a witness testimony who has given testimony under oath that what they saw was true. And reasonably, so if you were Tucker Carlson, you’re going okay, and then oh, wait a second. That’s just somebody saying something, what proof do you have? And she’s saying, no, this is proof that is reasonable in a court of law. This witness testimony is a part of what proof is. And he’s saying, no, no, what is the actual proof? So it could be there’s a battle and debate over the semantics of proof, and what that actually is.

And frankly, I’m kind of on Tucker side that even though right now you have a lot of witness affidavits of what you’re saying these people saw. And I really believe that maybe these people are very honest and trustworthy and I’m not questioning their integrity, what they saw. But it would seem and certainly, if I was on a jury, in this case, if I was going to say this was voter fraud, and this whole election process has to be overturned and whatever state I was in, I would need something more than just somebody’s personal testimony to verify the accuracy of their statement. And that could be where there was some friction between Tucker and Sidney Powell.

Again, I think both of them are probably good and honorable people. There was just a disagreement. There’s a frustration. They’re both in very high tense, high strain jobs at what they do. So I am going to give both of them grace in these moments, and certainly, I could see where there could be disagreement and what was presented and what the expectation was. But dad, you’re right. Even on the side where people are fighting to do reasonably good, honorable things, there’s been some tension over the weekend.

David:

And let’s put it in context to that part of what they’re going to present is over 1,000 affidavits. And if I had to go through 1,000 affidavits, and I’ve already heard from some people have gone through them, a lot of them is I’m a Republican, and they were mean to me, therefore, that’s fraud in the election. No, it’s not fraud in the election. So it’s going to boil down to who cares what happened to you unless you can see and prove something fraudulent. And even with the claims that what we saw these bags being carried in Detroit, all these bags coming out, did you look at all the ballots? Do you know what was on the ballots? Did you see? The fact you see bags carried in doesn’t necessarily prove fraud.

Now, there may be a lot of smoke, but you got to show fire. And that’s where it’s going to get… Now, I think there are definitely some things out there that are very strong claims that the professors they have, the analysts have done, the mathematicians and the scientists, scientific evidence is going to carry a lot of weight. But it’s interesting that Alan Dershowitz came out and said, well, here’s what the real good strong legal arguments are. And I think that those are worth looking at, because this is where everything is going to hinge on the coming weeks, and maybe even the next month and a half as this goes forward.

Rick:

Yeah. And it’s so important to recognize the process itself, right. And then the attorneys have to make some strategic decisions about how much we reveal to the media, how much do we save for the courtroom? You know, and I think that had a lot to do with the squabble between Tucker and Sidney was, she’s saying, I’m not going to lay out my whole case for you, and I’m not going to come on and do everything for an hour. But she gave him some bits and pieces, and what enough for him.

And so I think they do deserve their day in court, no doubt, and we have a chance to see these things as they come forward. I don’t even know how they’re expected to put this all together in just a matter of a few days when they’re just a bunch of a handful of civil lawyers. They don’t have the kind of agency or government teams that went after the supposed Russian collusion and all of that for months and months and months and years. And yet, a lot of that stuff was shared as fact whenever there wasn’t any evidence.

So it’s frustrating right now to really everybody, right? You’re frustrated if you just want to move on and just get started on the next project. And you’re also frustrated, if you know in your gut that some bad things happened here and yet you don’t yet see the ABC of exactly how it happened so that you can convince your friends too, right, so you could share with your friends as well. And that’s where I think a lot of conservatives right now we’re going, man, I don’t want to hear any more, because I might believe this, but I don’t have the proof in my fingertips to show to somebody else. And I don’t think we will for another week or so.

I think we’re looking at first week of December before we really start to see some of that if they can actually prove it, which I hope they can. Like you said, Tim, I hope that they’re able to back up what they’re saying. If they aren’t, I mean clearly, for those that have been making those claims, their reputations are shot. And if they can, then oh my goodness, we’re looking at the greatest election scandal in history. And some of that’s going to come out as we go. And like you said, David, Alan Dershowitz has already pointed out what he thinks those strongest arguments are. So let’s get some of that when we come back from the break. Folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

BREAK

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Founding Fathers, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson originally worked closely together but later became ardent opponents. This troubled Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration, who knew both of them very well. In the Bible, 2 Corinthians 5:18 tells us that God has given each of us the ministry of reconciliation. Dr. Rush believe this and set out to bring the two back together.

It took a while but Adams and Jefferson once again became close friends. And looking back on his role and helping bring about this reconciliation. Dr. Rush stated, “It will give me pleasure as long as I live to reflect that I have been in any degree instrumental and affecting this reunion of two souls destined to be dear to each other and motivated with the same dispositions to serve their country though in different ways.”

For more information about Dr. Benjamin Rush and his other remarkable achievements, go to wallbuilders.com.

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. As we were heading into break, David had talk about something that Dershowitz had pointed out as some of the main points that he thought were the strongest arguments for Trump. I hadn’t seen this yet. What was he talking about?

David:

Before I talked about what Alan Dershowitz said about the legal arguments, let me just take kind of point of personal privilege here. Alan Dershowitz is a very distinguished professor of law at Harvard, which kind of tells you that’s on the left side of things. But I’ve watched him over the last 15 years, start moving more and more constitutional. As the arguments have gotten wackier on the left, he’s gone against them and drifted the other direction. Actually, probably about 20 years ago, he and I were in a debate together, National Military magazine had me defend the Constitution and originalism and had him argue for a living Constitution. So we’ve had this debate back and forth. And now he is more on the constitution side. And he helped with Trump during the impeachment stuff. I’ve really seen him change. So I respect the fact that his thinking is not biased by his political inclinations. He’s going for the Constitution.

Having said that, he says, when he looks at all the smoke that’s out there, he thinks there’s fire, in the sense that in three areas, there’s going to be arguments, he says the Supreme Court will absolutely listen to. He said, two of those arguments come out of Pennsylvania. You may recall that last week we talked about how that the Trump team had seven claims in Pennsylvania courts, and they reduced it to two, they dropped five claims. And the two that they’ve kept are the two that he thinks are going to sway the Supreme Court.

And so the first argument he puts out is that you have the legislature who set the law for what we’re going to do with ballots when they’re due and how that has to occur. And right there at the 12th hour, a state court went and said, well, I’m going to change all that. Here’s what you can do with ballots. Here’s what you can accept and receive. And he says that that’s going to be a big deal to the Supreme Court is following law passed by legislature not rulings made by courts. So we think that’s a big one.

He says the other thing that he thinks will be really big is violation of what we call equal protection. And that is they use different standards for counting Trump ballots than what they did for counting Biden ballots. And so, in some counties, they accepted more Biden ballots and rejected more Trump ballots, and they didn’t use the same standard. Even some of the signature scanners in some counties were set to only 40% recognition, and that made a valid signature comparison.

So they do that signature comparison through scanners, and they didn’t use the same setting for all the counties. And so he says that’s going to be another big deal. And back in the year 2000, when this went to the Supreme Court in the Bush v Gore case, it was that argument that made the difference in Florida. Hey, you can’t have some counties counted some way in Florida and some counties use a different standard, you have to use the same standard across the State counting all ballots. So…

Rick:

Yeah, because that’s an equal protection claim, right? I mean, you’re treating one citizen different from another.

David:

That’s it, that’s exactly equal protection. Trump should get the same protection that Biden did. And they should use the same rules for both of them. And the fact that they can show that it was done differently in different counties, he said, that’s going to be a big issue at the Supreme Court.

Rick:

And David, if I could jump in on you there for a second, because I want to tell people how different this was. I was listening to Dan Bongino the other day break down these stats. Normally, those mail-in ballots are rejected at about a little over a 6% rate. So about 6% of them that calibration shows that the signature is not valid or something else is wrong and about 6% get kicked out. In this election, it was only about point two, something like less than 1%. And yet here we are in an election where there’s way more mail-in ballots, people are voting by mail and that have never done it before. It should have been a higher rejection rate in ballots that weren’t done correctly by any level of common sense. And yet it was a mere fraction, because of that calibration you’re talking about?

David:

So this is where I think that the mathematicians that they’ve got that filed affidavits, I think that’s going to be a strong argument at the court, because mathematics, it’s not swayed by emotions, and it really doesn’t care who wins who doesn’t win, and so when you like, Rick, you just went through that mathematic anomaly. So there’s something that that really doesn’t look right mathematically when you have all these scenarios where you should get increased rejection of ballots, and you actually have increased acceptance of ballots. That’s a mathematical anomaly that you got to have something better to explain than what they had on election night. So those are arguments that are going to, I think, have great substance.

And the other one that Dershowitz thinks is going to have real substance is the fact that they can show enough anomalies, whether it be in software, and of course, Sidney, and Rudy and others, they argued that well, the Smartmatic software, it’s got backdoors in it, you can go in and program it while things are going on, and we have these affidavits from Michigan that say that the ballot counting machines were connected to active live internet at the time they were counting which you can’t do that, which means people can be putting in information from outside. So that kind of stuff that was going on is he thinks the fact that they can show enough potential for manipulation of data, and fraudulent votes, or even just honest glitches that may have occurred, that that’s also substantive.

And that’s why in these cases, so far, the Trump team has been filing numbers that would be greater than the number of votes by which they lost. So if you lose by 15,000 votes, and you can show the 25,000 votes may have been affected in this this direction, that’s going to make sense of the court. If you lost by 15,000 votes, and you can show that there were three fraudulent votes, that’s not going to change the outcome. You have to be able to show that there’s enough to make a difference. And that’s something Dershowitz also believed is going to be a very strong argument at the Supreme Court level.

And remember, we’re just talking, Dershowitz looking at Supreme Court. Because as we mentioned, even last week, Rudy said, hey, we don’t care what happens in the state courts, all we care is getting this to the Supreme Court. And if the state courts rule against us, that’s not a big deal, because they’re all going to get appealed and move up. And so that’s where he sees this headed is to the Supreme Court. And that’s what Dershowitz is talking about, is what arguments will have weight at the US Supreme Court, and he thinks those are the three arguments that will have weight. He does not necessarily believe that all those arguments are accurate, but he does believe that they’re strong, and that they will be a cause for the Supreme Court to actually listen. And he thinks that those are the three constitutional paths that Trump will have to victory in the election. And he does see Trump as having a very good potential of winning, although he’s not laying odds on who wins. He says from a legal standpoint, these are very strong arguments.

Rick:

Yeah. And that last point, you made, David, is so important. As we watch this process for a couple more weeks, those legal losses at the state court level are expected and even at the federal lower court levels in the States. And so the real game is at the US Supreme Court. That’s where this is ultimately going to get decided. Quick break, guys, we’ll be right back. Folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

BREAK

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called “The American Story”. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today. And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out of statement, Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story. Starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America, not as the story of a perfect nation or a perfect people, but the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out wallbuilder.com, “The American Story”.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live, final segment of the day. And quick kind of, I guess, rapid fire around those states some updates from those individual states guys.

Tim:

Alright guys, well, first one in Pennsylvania, one of the things that we saw over the weekend was the Trump team, the Trump campaign lost their legal suit in Pennsylvania to halt certification. The good news is that it happened very quickly. And so because it happened quickly, they’re able now to appeal it, it’ll go on with appeal to the Third Circuit, and then based on what happens at Third Circuit, they can appeal up to the US Supreme Court. The reason this matters in the sense of certification is because if State certify that Joe Biden wins, or in this case, even Trump won, right, whatever the certification happens, then it is now assigning those electors from that State.

And so Trump has until December 8th, if Pennsylvania doesn’t go ahead and certify, his team has till December 8th, to go through the Third Circuit, to go to the US Supreme Court to try to get that stopped. Dad, as you were mentioning, based on some of the things even Alan Dershowitz pointed out, in Pennsylvania, there’s some real oddities. There’s a lot of smoke in Pennsylvania about a lot of potential issues and enough potential issues that it could be big enough to impact the ultimate winner in this election.

So even though Trump lost at the State level in Pennsylvania, Rick, as you mentioned that’s expected to lose the State level, that’s not a surprise to people. The good news is that it happened quickly enough that now the Trump team has time to work the appeals process and the appeals court and hopefully get it up to maybe even the US Supreme Court depending on what happens in the Third Circuit. But that is something that happened over the weekend.

David:

And by the way, also, we heard from Trey Trainor this weekend, who is the head of Federal Elections Commission, that he seen enough smoke that he too believes there’s fire. Now, he wants to see the mathematical analysis and the professor from Williams College who’s done one of the affidavits has a lot of that in there. But again, there’s a lot of smoke. Now, we get to see how much fire that’s there. But Tim, as you pointed out, Pennsylvania, they’re done with their lawsuits in Pennsylvania except for the appeals process now. So there’s no more pending lawsuits in Pennsylvania.

Tim:

Alright, guys. We’re also in Georgia, well, the first official recount happened that allowed them to certify the vote. One of the problems if for people that are listening, if you kind of paid attention, the Trump legal team said that the recount was not a very good recount, and President Trump tweeted all over social media several times talked about how the recount wasn’t actually a valid recount, because they reduce the verification needed to authenticate the signatures on the ballot. And what the state of Georgia did is said that as long as the signature on the ballot matches the signature requesting the ballot, then the whole thing is totally fine and legal. The problem is, you could be a person requesting 300 ballots, and you get assigned 300 different signatures and your ballot that you voted on matched that signature that you question.

David:

Yeah, let me let me just insert here what the state did, they didn’t do a recount, they did an audit. All they did was see if the math added up. They just recalculated the math, and that’s not going through. Tim, as you’re pointing out and looking at the ballots and saying, now, wait a minute, the same signature appears on 53 ballots, that’s wrong. They did not look at any of that. They only look to see if their calculators were right when they added the math.

Tim:

Well, yeah, and specifically, the same handwriting appeared on 53 ballots, because maybe it’s a different signature because they use 53 different names. But that’s where Trump said you need to go back and match it to the actual voter ID, to the state records we have for this person. But Georgia said, hey, we’ll do another recount now. We’ll just count everything over again. So there’s going to be another recount in Georgia. But unless they are going to match the signatures to more than just a ballot request in the ballots, you would not expect them to find much else. Although in this first recount, they did find a whole bunch of ballots, thousands of ballots that had been overlooked or forgotten, and so at this point, you don’t expect them to find any more ballots. And hopefully, there can be an issue raised saying, hey, let’s go back and make sure we’re verifying, the signatures are for who the actual person is, and not based on the ballot request, not based on the ballots, but based on state ID or something of that nature.

David:

Jumping to Michigan, in Michigan, a lot was mentioned on what happened with Wayne County and the three counties around Detroit, Detroit was the big center. There were some electoral commissioners there. And by the way, the county board of elections has an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, both sides, they get equal representation. And so what happened despite all the claims of fraud, and despite all the affidavits that are there, the two Republicans voted to certify the results in Detroit, and that kind of raised eyebrows at the time. Well, now we find out this past weekend, those two Republican commissioners have withdrawn their certification. They said no, you guys told us that if we would go ahead and certify that you would do an audit of the votes in the county, and once we certified, you said, well, we’re not going to do an audit. You told us differently. And by the way, you harassed us and you threatened us into signing that, and we’re just not going to back down to you anymore.

So it appears that that the coercion didn’t work, they change the terms. In other words, they kind of lied to them to get their signatures, and then once they had those signatures, said oh, no, we’re not going to do what we told you. So that now is back on the table. We know there’s a recount going on, at least in the two big cities. So really, the fact that these two guys rescinded their vote doesn’t change anything because the recount is underway. It just shows you the tone of the opposition they’ve been facing there and tried to get the bottom of what’s happening.

Tim:

And guys, last state is Arizona, at least on the list right now we’re going to cover and it looks like the legal challenges are concluded in Arizona over the weekend. A Judge dismissed a lawsuit. It doesn’t seem the Trump team has done anything additionally in Arizona. And so maybe they’re now focusing and narrowing down the states where they think they have the best odds and the best chance of winning and changing the ultimate outcome of this election. And so real quickly, those are kind of the updates we’re seeing from some of the states over the weekend.

Rick:

So much more to watch and learn over the coming weeks, folks, you don’t want to miss a single day of WallBuilders Live. You know, there’s so few sources out there right now that you can trust to speak truth, to not exaggerate things and also not to lie to you about what’s actually happening. And so here at WallBuilders Live, we’re just going to give you that biblical, constitutional, historical perspective on whatever happens. If you appreciate that, then tune in every Monday through Friday and share it with your friends and family. Go to wallbuilderslive.com today and you can grab links and share it with friends and family right now. Even later this week, we’re going to have some great information on Thanksgiving and some of that history. But every day we’ll keep you updated on the latest and what’s happening with this election of 2020. Wallbuilderslive.com to learn more, that’s also where you can make that donation.

Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders Live.