Where Did Hitler Get His Beliefs about Israel? Mike Hayes Explains Why We Support Israel:  What is replacement theology?  Where did it come from?  Is it true?  Pastor Mike Hayes of Dallas, TX talks about these and many more important concepts.  Tune in today!

Air Date: 08/07/2017

Guests: Mike Hayes, David Barton, and Rick Green.


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times.  We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture, welcome to WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. If you use those three things you”€™re going to find to every issue that we are facing out there.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also with Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green. I”€™m a national speaker, author, and  I’m a former Texas state legislature.

Find out more about us and the program at WallBuildersLive.com. There you’ll find a list of all of our stations, get some archives of the programs over the last few weeks, and also some other great information.

Then at WallBuilders.com, a wealth of resources there, and all kinds of downloads you can get for free. You can get access to a lot of the Founders’ writings, fantastic books and videos that will really equip you to understand the founding of America, and also to be a good citizen activist. To actually get out there and make a difference yourself.

Later in the program, we’ve got Pastor Mike Hayes joining us. He”€™s going to be answering one of your, the audience”€™s, questions. Also, we”€™re going to catch up with Mike about what’s going on in Washington, D.C. with his new ministry.

Israel Has A Direct Impact On Christians

Right now we”€™re here with David Barton. Of course, you might remember that we first talked a little bit about this question that we got from the audience, maybe even considered answering, then thought, “€œNo, let’s get Mike Hayes in here to talk about this Biblical perspective on why we have such a great relationship and want to have a good relationship with Israel.”€


I think one of the reasons we worry about Israel, I’m not sure that worry is the right word, but I know exactly what you mean as a colloquialism. One of the reasons it’s a concern is that the less Biblical a nation becomes the more they question the role of Israel in history and in the world. Particularly as you look at younger generations whether it be Gen Z, or millennials, or etc.

Those that know less about the Bible say, “€œI’m not sure that Israel is that big of a deal. I mean, Israel is oppressed, all the Palestinians are the ones creating all the problems in the Middle East-“€ And just kind of be ambivalent.

It would be like France is, “€œIsrael is no big deal.”€ The more secular thinking you become, the more of a question Israel becomes in your belief and in your behavior, “€œWhy do we give Israel special treatment in foreign affairs and in a military situation? Why do we treat them- I mean, Saudi Arabia is a partner with us over in the Middle East, so why do we do so much for Israel?”€

I think those are all questions that stem from our lack of knowing what the Bible says about Israel, what God has planned for Israel, what he has promised Israel, and how that relates to Christians. What the Bible says about Israel has a direct impact on Christians.

Every Tribe And Tongue


One of the best guys to have to talk about that is Pastor Mike Hayes, someone that has obviously done a lot with Israel, has a very large ministry, a large church there in Dallas, and he church plants all over the country.


By the way, let me say that large church in Dallas is always fun when I go there. Pastor Hayes is a white guy, he is as white as you”€™re ever going to get. But you go to his church and it’s definitely not very white, it’s everything. It’s kind of like probably what’s going to look like when you get to Revelation 7 where all the nations, and tribes, and people, and colors, and languages, around.

I mean, it is one of the most culturally diverse churches. But one of the most Biblically sound churches I’ve ever been in. I love being there because it is Hispanic, and has Pacific Islanders, has a large black congregation, it’s just everybody worshipping and studying the Bible.  It”€™s really cool what Mike’s been able to do here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.


Mike Hayes will be our special guest when we return.  Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

Bring A Speaker To Your Area


Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “€œAs incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”€

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you”€™ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

Where Adolf Hitler Got His Beliefs


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live, thanks for staying with us today. Our good friend Pastor Mike Hayes is with us from Covenant. Pastor Hayes, always good to have you, sir.

Pastor Hayes:

Great to be with you.


We had a tough question from a listener. David said, “€œMan, we”€™ve got to get Mike Hayes on, he’ll be great at talking about that.”€ We read the question in our last segment but are really interested in an apologetics answer to why we should be so concerned about Israel and why we’re not teaching more about the reliability and truth of the Bible. I know that’s probably a 10-week course we really need to be doing. But if you could come up with a 60-second answer that”€™d just be great.

Pastor Hayes:

I’m so glad to know that David saved the tough questions for me and had me on today. Hey listen, this is probably one of the most important questions that we could ask and answer.

The simple short answer, if I could share it, is this. God is of a covenant and when God makes the covenant he keeps it forever. So God made a covenant with His People Israel, called them out, chose them, in order to show his faithfulness.

It didn’t mean that they were better than any other people. It didn’t mean that they were more righteous or more perfect. In fact, their mistakes are well written of. What God has shown us is that he makes a covenant and keeps it forever.

Here’s the tragic part of that. God is still sticking with his covenant and that’s why we’ve seen, even though the Jewish people have gone through unbelievable difficulties over the centuries, God has regathered them and re-established them in their land. That tiny country in the Middle East against all odds.

The reason that’s happened is because of God’s miraculous power to preserve what he loves and what he promises that he will care for. Here’s the tragic part of that. From our view as Christians, and this is the specialty part of my study, all the way from the first century, Rick, Christian leaders started to attempt to separate us from our Jewish roots as Christians.

So much so that by the third century and at the beginning of the fourth century when Constantine was supposedly converted. I’m going to say it that way because I don’t believe in his conversion.  I think it was a slick political move. But anyway, persecution of the Jews broke out by Christians against Jews because of what we call “€œreplacement theology”€ or “€œsupersessionism” basically which teaches that the church in God’s heart has totally replaced every promise God ever made to the Jews. And there is no remaining promise to the Jews because the church took that place.


As if he just put them aside and replaced them with us, with the Christians of today?

Pastor Hayes:

Absolutely. And of course, the reason given by Constantine and earlier church fathers was very simple, the Jews crucified Jesus, Jesus is our savior, therefore the Jews deserved to be killed. So they burned their synagogues and they began murdering them.

Constantine set that in motion and then as late as the 15th century Martin Luther picked it up and had all the Jews expelled from Germany. And then in the 19th century, 20th century, Adolf Hitler quoted Martin Luther and said that he was our greatest reformer. And if he believed that Jews should be kicked out of the country then I believe what he believes, and then we get Hitler.



Pastor Hayes:

That’s how horrible the results of this doctrine are.


And that still is prevalent today in a lot of places.

God Keeps His Promises

Pastor Hayes:

Absolutely, more than you would believe. Now, here’s the good side of this, Rick. God hasn’t replaced Israel with the church. God loves Israel and the church. So, I’ll tell it this way really quickly.

I was coming out of a theater with my wife recently. A man came up to me and he was all worked up, red in the face, and he said, “€œPastor Mike Hayes, I respect you as a teacher of the word. But I am just so disappointed and disturbed. Why would you encourage us to pray for and bless Israel?”€

He said, “€œHalf of them over there are atheists. And then those that are Orthodox Jews don’t even believe Jesus is the Messiah. So why would we want to support Israel?”€ And I said, “€œIsn’t that great?”€


I said, “€œThose facts you just cited.”€

“€œNo, those are awful.”€

“€œNo, what is great is that God’s promise for the land of Israel has nothing to do with the faith or the performance of the people that live there. God has so freed us to love him by our choice that even if we choose to say that I don’t even believe in him, God still keeps his promise.”€

Now, the reason that’s important to you and I, Rick, is because if God will break his promise to Israel because of their failings, then maybe God will break his promise to us when we fail. That’s why that’s important.

Is Supporting Israel Biblical?


So, when we see his faithfulness to them, that should be, like you said, an encouragement to us in our own faith. And what about our attitude towards Israel, as a nation, as individuals, as churches, in our support of them, how important is that?

Pastor Hayes:

It’s huge in my mind, Rick. I think that first of all, God has promised us that if we bless Israel that he will bless us. He’s also commanded us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that’s where Jesus is going to return.

I live in Dallas and I love Dallas but that’s not where Jesus is coming back to. Jesus is coming back to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. So I pray for the peace of Jerusalem. The reason it’s important to support them is because, first of all, I’ll tell you this, Rick. This is the difficult part. We have to support them with no strings attached. And unfortunately, we not always really good at that kind of love.

Not even, sometimes, with our family, or within our church. We’re certainly not good at that with other denominations. If you don’t go to my same kind of church I not only don’t feel any obligation to pray for you, I may not even like you.


Ouch, that’s so true. And now we’ve had really rocky supporter relations with Israel over the last couple of decades. Sometimes we’re on, sometimes we’re off, and sometimes with them, and sometimes we’re not. What can we do as citizens? Obviously, you said pray. Even as churches supporting them. You do a lot of this, getting people over there to see the Holy Land and even to support them financially and support them in terms of national defense. I mean, there’s a lot we can do.

God Made A Covenant With The Land

Pastor Hayes:

Yeah, one of the things we can do Rick, the best we can is to re-educate the bad information. Like for instance, the typical person I speak to says, “€œLook, I don’t know why we support Israel because they’re the big bully. They’re in the Middle East and they pick on the Palestinians.”€ And other things not understanding that there are three to four hundred thousand Israeli Arabs that live in Jerusalem peacefully.

And that this whole thing on the political side, with, for instance, Hamas supporting terrorism in the West Bank and lobbing rockets into Israel every time they get a chance keeps those things stirred up.

But there’s much of the Israeli government that’s secular. So we don’t support Israel necessarily politically and every decision they make. We support Israel because this is a unique fact, Rick. In the scripture, Israel, that tiny piece of land is the only place on the planet ever mentioned in the Bible that God actually made a covenant with the land, not the people of the land, the land.

There is no mention of God making a covenant with the United States, or with Europe, or with Russia. But with Israel, he made a covenant with the land to give it to his people and to preserve it forever. So we bless them. Now, there are lots of humanitarian needs in Israel. There are lots of ways to bless the people of Israel. And that’s what we do.

One final word about that, Rick, the Lord helped me with this a number of years ago to say, “€œListen, so many of us get really evangelistic-ly filled with fervor and we feel like we do very little. Even humanitarian missions, without evangelism being the hook, I”€™m even going to say with that being a condition, strings attached. “€œWe’re going to do this for you, we’re going to help you, we’re going to “€˜love you”€™ but you need to convert.”€

What the Lord said to me is, “€œLook, live the gospel, love the people, but trust my covenant. Because I have blinders on them right now. That’s what allowed us Gentiles to get in.”€ So just trust God’s covenant. Love the Israeli people, care for the Jews, pray for Jerusalem and watch God’s blessing be upon us and them. And it’s all going to turn out.


Man, brother. I wish we had more time. We”€™ve got to get you back both to talk a little bit more about the Biblical prophecies we’ve seen coming right before our eyes dealing with Israel. And then before I let you go, I really want to learn a little bit more about this Center for National Renewal.

You and Cathy, you have a massive church in Dallas and you’ve started churches all over the country and the world. But God’s called you to D.C. to do this Center for National Renewal. Really curious about what’s going on there.

The Center for National Renewal

Mike Hayes:

It’s really great, Rick, I appreciate you asking about it. That’s what is happening for us right now. In October last year, we sent Stephen, our son, as the senior pastor of Covenant Church allowing us to fly a little higher over the battlefield.

By the way, with no invitation from anyone, we felt like going and driving a stake in the nation’s capital. God wants to put his people in a place of influence at the highest levels. And we were just walking it out by faith.

So we opened a building there that”€™s just two blocks from the Capitol, The Center for National Renewal, emphasizing for key words. Intercession, so we’ve opened a national prayer team called National Renewal Prayer Team, Rick. Which is not monetised, it doesn’t cost.

All people have to do is text Nat Redo to 414-11 and It’ll sign them up and send them a weekly update on what we’re praying for from the nation’s capital. This Friday I’m invited, and this is a special blessing, because we’ve come all the way from opening the center with no invitation but just feeling the call of God to this. Friday I’m going to my first working meeting in the White House with the administration.

And the reason I’m there Rick is because here’s what they said, “€œCovenant Church has established churches with a hundred different races all loving one another, working together in community, and the nation needs that. So how do we get what Covenant Church is to the whole nation?”€ So I think that’s exciting. I think that the Kingdom of God has a chance to be an example for what could be in the whole nation, that’s an exciting thing.



Pastor Hayes:

So we emphasized prayer and education like David does. I’ve learned that half of the pastors I speak to have never been to Washington, D.C. So when you’ve never been you don’t know to fight for it. You don’t know what we’re losing.

Then thirdly, reconciliation.

And finally, influence. Because with just one quick final word, how did the apostle Paul leave Caesarea in Israel in handcuffs, in chains, on a prison ship headed for Rome to be tried for treason and executed? When he gets there they lose the paperwork, they set him free, and he establishes a church.

He came there after a shipwreck and in prison chains and just a few years later he writes to the Philippines and in chapter four he says, “€œI send you greetings from all of the saints in Rome, especially Caesar’s family.”€ That’s influence.

We never change the needle on the culture by going to the end of a pig trail somewhere. Listen, we have to help people who are poor. So it’s not one without the other. But unfortunately, the church has done mostly humanitarian missions and we’ve abandoned the great influence centers of the world to the powers that be. So we’ve got to get right in the middle of what God is allowing us to do and walk through those open doors so that’s why we’re there.


I love it. Let’s definitely get you back. Let’s do a whole show on this because this is so important. The website for Center for National Renewal CFNR.org, we”€™ll make it really easy today folks, we”€™ll have a link to it on WallBuildersLive.com. Just hit the radio page and we’ll do some links over there. You can join Mike”€™s prayer team there, just some incredible things happening, and God’s really opening some fantastic doors. Pastor, we love you and appreciate you. Appreciate your time and look forward, seriously, to get you back soon to talk more about that.

Pastor Hayes:

Good. I’ll see you guys in September at your event in D.C.


Looking forward to it. Stay with us folks we’ll be right back with David Barton.

Pastors Only Briefing Trip


Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor”€™s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. After the final victory at Yorktown, the Continental Army awaited the outcome of peace negotiations with Great Britain.

Pastor Israel Evans, a chaplain in the army, proposed to George Washington that they build a structure where church services can be held during the months of waiting. Washington approved the plan and urges officers to ensure that the soldiers attend that service.

Pastor Evans further knew if we were to secure the liberties they had fought for, sound education would be crucial.

He declared, “€œEvery parent and every friend to the freedom of his country ought to be attentive to the improvement of our youth and the principles of freedom and good government. And then the people will stand fast in their liberty for a long time.”€ Our schools today need to return to teaching the principles of freedom and good government in order for America to survive and prosper. For more information about Pastor Israel Evans and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com


Welcome back! Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live! Thanks for Mike Hayes for joining us today, we’ll have links to his ministry at our website today at WallBuildersLive.com as well.

Back with David. First of all, he just nails it on the whole Israel segment, he nails it on our attitude towards that, but also even just our involvement. Man, I”€™m excited, he just said, “€œOk, Lord, if that’s what you want. I”€™ll to go to D.C. and get this thing started.”€ And now the Lord”€™s really responded. Sounds like he’s getting some favor there as well.


Yeah, it’s been really cool to see what they’ve done in D.C. I’ve been able to be up there with the group and actually been able to do some of the tours and help with conferences up there and it’s really good stuff that theyve got going in D.C.

There is a connection, as he pointed out.  Nobody invited him to come up, they just went up to serve. They have been invited in so many cool places.

So what they got in D.C. and I love the verses he used when he is quoting how that they lost Paul’s papers and he ends up with a letter from Philippians and it says, “€œAnd those from Caesar’s house greets you.”€ And I thought he made a great point about how the Christians for 2,000 years have loved to go to the other parts of the earth.

We love to go into the jungles and would love to go to the oppressed people but we’ve ignored the centers of influence. And there you’ve got Caesar’s house.

Paul is there and he has now had a huge influence in Caesar’s Palace. And so that is the right aspect. So he’s in D.C. and Mike’s got such a record of success in the number of churches he’s helped across the nation.

But to take that philosophy to D.C. is really cool. I love too the way that he covered so much of church history. I thought he did a great job of pointing out church history, particularly if you go back to [Constantine]. I guess today we would call that a fake conversion since we’ve got fake news and fake everything else. But [Constantine]’s behavior certainly did not indicate that he had had a heart change. “€œLet’s go out and kill Jews.”€ And he talked about how that for the next thousand twelve hundred years that was the attitude, Christian leader said to kill Jews.

Now, I’ve always thought that was really kind of silly at so many levels. What is it that brings salvation to Christians? It’s the death of Christ. So God’s plan was that Jesus would die so that we could have salvation. So what we want to do is go punish people for God executing his plan to bring us salvation.

We want to take revenge on the very thing that caused us to be able to know him personally.  Are you kidding me? So, “€œJews killed Jesus, let’s kill Jews.”€ Wait, Jesus was a Jew. No, sins killed Jesus, my sins killed Jesus. It wasn’t Jews that killed Jesus. It was my sins that killed Jesus. I want to go kill the Jews? If it hadn’t been for Jesus being killed I couldn’t even know God.

That whole thing has always been a mystery to me how crazy that thinking must have been to say, “€œConvert or die. We’re going to make you a convert or you’re going to die. Jesus wants you to die because you killed him.”€

No, I killed him through my sins.  I loved the way he pointed out, it”€™s is such a good balance, and put perspective on it. When Mike talked about the blinders a lot of folks may not recognize what that is but in the Bible in 2 Corinthians 3, God talks about the fact that he has put blinders, if you will, or he is kind of darkened the understanding of Jews. They really don’t see Jesus as Messiah and he did that so that by the Jews rejecting Jesus right now for the time being it opened the door for the Gentiles to come in.

Because if you remember that’s how Paul got started he was preaching to the Jews and they rejected this so many times he said, “€œI’ve had it. I’m going to the Gentiles you guys are not even listening”€.

And if the Jews had accepted what Paul was saying and accepted the Apostles, the Gentiles never would have had the message. I mean, when Peter went and preached to a Gentiles in Acts 9, it got him in serious trouble with the other Apostles because he’s not supposed to be messing with anybody except the Jews. So because the Jews rejected the message, that’s how the Gentiles get brought into this thing. And so in 2 Corinthians 3, it points out that God will one day lift the veil off the eyes of the Jews spiritually so they will see Jesus is the Messiah.  And then Jews and Gentiles all get brought into the Kingdom.

So you know, again, Mike has got this thing right but that covenant aspect that he’s talking about the fact that the covenant with Israel even when they do things wrong God still keeps his word. And if he didn’t do that what they say about us?   That when we sin, God abandons us? No.

I mean, just on so many ways my key thinking and key points and that’s what this generation really needs to get a hold of is that Biblical view, historical view.  And it does make a difference on how we as Christians think today.


Thanks to Mike Hayes for joining us today.  We’ll have links to the ministry on our website.  Make sure you check that out today at WallBuilders Live. Thanks so much for joining us.