Teacher Told Not To Attend Same Church As Students: Sometimes we have a topic on our program that people just scratch their head and cannot believe it’s happening in America and today is one of those! Did a principal of a midwestern school really ban a teacher from exercising her First Amendment Rights? Tune in now to find out!
Air Date: 02/18/2019
Guest: Mat Staver
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
- WallBuilders | American historical events, founding fathers, historical documents, books, videos, CDs, tapes, David Barton’s speaking schedule.
- Coupons: Use promo code WBL17 to receive 10% off your entire order on ALL WallBuilders Store Products!!
- Helpful links:
- Send In Your Questions!
- The Founders Bible
- The Founders Bible App
- Constitution Alive
- First Liberty
- The Courageous Leaders Collection
- Heroes of History
- Quotations of the Founders Books
- Alliance Defending Freedom
- Liberty Counsel
- Patriot Academy
- High Point Leadership Camp
- WallBuilders’ YouTube
- Wallbuilders Summer Leadership Training Program
- Texas Values
Download: Click Here
Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith And The Culture
You’ve found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, the culture, all these different things, but looking at them from the perspective of a biblical perspective, a constitutional perspective, and a historical perspective.
We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton’s with us, national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.
Check us out at WallBuildersLive.com and also WallBuilders.com. Two different websites, but great information at both. At the radio site, WallBuildersLive.com, you can get a list of our stations around the country, you can go into our archive section and listen to programs over the last few weeks – whether it’s Good News Friday if you want to hear some good news happening in the culture, or Foundations of Freedom Thursday, get some good constitutional education based on your questions that you send to us, and then our interviews on Monday through Wednesday. So, a lot of great stuff there.
And then over at WallBuilders.com, so many great tools for you and your family. And all of these things are made possible because of our supporters out there. The radio program expands, and grows, and gets into the hands of people, and equips and inspires them because of your donation.
So, we really want encourage you to check out that donate button on either of those websites as well. And it might be a one time donation or it could be a monthly donation. Maybe give up one cup of coffee a month and make that five dollar a month donation, or maybe you can do more than that, but whatever your donation is it will greatly help us continue this great work at WallBuilders.
And that’s more than just radio. David, Tim, lot people don’t know all the things– if they’re listeners the program, they may not be aware of the youth leadership that we do, the pastor trainings, the legislators trainings, the materials that we’re putting out. There’s so many different ways we’re impacting the culture through WallBuilders.
So Many Different Ways
Yeah. And actually, Rick, we recently had a trip to Israel where there were several people on the trip who mentioned that they listened to the WallBuilders radio program every day. So, there’s a lot of things that we’re able to do that directly impact things related to– whether it’s teachers, or pastors, Rick, as you mentioned, the leadership training programs we do, the Patriot Academy things that we do, so many things that directly impact people.
But this is where, as listeners, you were able to not only help promote these very concepts and notions of religious liberty, of the Constitution, of the Founding Fathers, of the importance of the Bible. Not only so other people can hear them on the radio, but actually, so that differences can be made up around the nation. Where as we are periodically up in Washington D.C., and we’re emailing and texting with congressmen, and we’re doing tours at the Capitol, all the things that we are doing.
People that support this program are having a part in all those things that are happening because allowing the influence to spread and to reach people with the message of the Founding Fathers, and the Constitution, and the importance of the Bible, the things that really established America to be the nation she is.
And we have so appreciated what President Trump has done with the notion of let’s make America great again. And we’ve mentioned on this program – if you’re going to make America great again, it’s important that you know what made her great in the first place. That’s what this program is all about – recognizing the foundational principles that made America great. It was the Bible that led to the Declaration, the principles that built the Constitution that we followed that have made America the most successful nation in the history of the world.
Just Give Up A Cup Of Coffee
So, as listeners you have an opportunity to help support that very message that can help make America great again. And that sense of restoring those foundational principles from the Bible, from the Constitution, that America is so desperately needing. So, even the idea, Rick, as you mentioned, of just giving up a cup of coffee. Five dollars a month, whatever it is, if there’s something you can do, you can be a part of making a difference.
The Bible talks about the principle of sowing and reaping. And I can tell you, if you are sowing into this program we do believe that there will be a great harvest from the things that we are teaching and promoting, the things that God allows us to be a part of. And if you’re going to invest your dollars, you always want to invest in good soil and we definitely believe that God is allowing us to have some incredible opportunities that makes us very fertile soil to invest in.
So, you can help make a difference by doing– if it’s five dollars a month, or if you want to do more a month, or a one time gift. But this is something that we really do encourage you that this is a great thing for you to invest in.
And, Tim, you mentioned how that part of the impact is on the learning that’s there. Well, speaking as the one guy that’s from a pre millennial generation– or, I guess, Rick, maybe you’re close to that– I see the stats on the rising generation of leaders, those that are millennials and Gen-Z’s, and what I’m seeing there is concerning for most pre-millennial folks. The direction of the morals, the direction of their view on government, the direction, of their view on free speech, other things, this is not a healthy direction.
But I have to say – the most encouraged I am every year is when we get these young millennials, these 18 to 25’s together in training. And knowing what they’ve been taught, and knowing what their views are, and watching within a two week period of time how they so reverse their views because you can just– they’re so teachable and they are open to truth once they see it, they’ve just never been exposed to it.
Do You Know What To Do?
So, what we’re able to do in that period of time, I’m telling you, we have some phenomenal leaders rising up out of this generation that I just, I can’t say it enough – that’s the most encouraging thing I see every year – what the future looks like when you’re able to train and teach. So, that’s part of where this investment goes as well. What people do with WallBuilders and WallBuilders Live that helps us train the next generation.
I’m sure it’s the same for you guys, but as we travel across the country, and we do speaking engagements, and run into people that care about the country and are concerned, one of the most often comments I get is, “I want to do something, but I don’t know what to do.”
And most people get the fact that we’re in trouble as a country and we need the very things that both you guys have just mentioned – the education, the learning what made America great in the first place in order to restore it, passing the torch effectively to the next generation. Most people understand that those things are needed, but they don’t know what to do to make that happen. So, what we’re really say into our listeners is, “Look, we’ve got a track to run on, we know what needs to be done, and we’re doing it, and we’re seeing the results.” And God’s really blessed us with the opportunities to do that.
And what people at home can do to help make that happen is come alongside us, make the contributions that fuel the engine to be able to go do those things. And get involved with us – go to the website and find out more about how to be active, how to bring in one of us to speak, or host a constitution class, or whatever might be. There’s lots of things you can do to make a difference.
Don’t Just Sit Around And Complain!
The easiest thing, honestly, is to hit that donate button and make that financial contribution, but it definitely helps. It makes it possible for us to do all of these things that we’re doing and you’ll know that you’re part of the team and that you’re part of the solution, that you’re helping to make that happen.
It’s one thing to sit around and complain. I used to do that, I used to complain to the TV, I used to watch the news and complain, and talk about and complain to my wife, and complain to my parents, about how the country was headed the wrong direction. And one day I was like, “Why am I not doing anything?” I was in my 20s when I was finally like, “I’ve got to be part of the solution – not just part of the of the complainers out there.”
So, everybody out there that wants to see the country go in the right direction, there’s a lot you can do. We will help you do that. We want you to come lock shields with us and and be a part of it. So, check those donate buttons out and also some of the activity buttons there on our website today.
Later in the program Mat Staver is going to be with us. In a moment we’re going to talk about– sometimes we have a topic on our program that people just scratch their head and cannot believe it’s happening in America. This is one of those topics. Just imagine being told that you cannot attend your own home church because some of your students go to church there. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
A Moment From American History
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Too often today history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding. Such as Lemuel Haynes.
Haynes, though abandoned as a baby, pioneered churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master’s degree, and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, The Congregationalist.
He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington’s birthday he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life he expressed his willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called, “a sacred ark.”
American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about Pastor Lemuel Haynes and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com.
Keep It From Happening In Your Own Backyard
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Guys, I know– I try not to say this too often, but sometimes we have a program that people get shocked or they don’t even believe us, right. They hear the story and they’re like, “That’s got to be exaggerated. There’s no way.” Well, today is what gonna be one of those programs where they say there’s no way that a principal would say to a teacher, “You cannot even have– attend a church where your students go.”
And this is going to be one of those where we say, h
ey, you can change this in your own community. Don’t think it will never happen in your community. And you’ve got to pay attention to who those school board members are, the city council members are, you’ve got to be involved locally if you want to prevent this crazy story you’re going to hear today from happening right there in your own backyard.
Yeah. When we saw the article of this situation where the teacher was told by the principal that you are not allowed to go to church functions if any of the students from the school are there. Well, for most of our listeners, you can imagine, depending on what state you live in and depending on how big your city is, but in some communities there is not that many churches and the school district isn’t that big, so your students, many of them are going to be at your church. That’s just the nature of how America is, how school districts work, and where churches are.
So, the bizarre claim– and, really, it boggles the mind – how in the world can you say that teachers on their own private time cannot attend church if any students from the school or from that school district are attending that church as well? It doesn’t make any sense at all. It certainly seems like this is a violation of constitutional rights, that the freedom of association, you can go down a list of things, this doesn’t make any sense at all.
And as you’re pointing out, this is why it does make a difference that we get involved. And instead of just being frustrated with the way things are going, saying, “Okay, what part can I play to help bring solutions to these problems?” Getting involved locally does make a difference in these situations.
Winning By The Right Focus
Well, the problem we have with this is we just don’t get much local news. I don’t care what news cable you listen – whether you’re conservative, moderate, liberal, or whatever – you’re going to get inundated with national news and that’s what you’re going to hear.
You’re going to hear it at the State of the Union with whoever’s spin from whatever side they are, you’re going to hear about what’s happening with judges in Congress, or you’re going to hear about what’s happening with foreign policy, or all that stuff. You’re not going to get stories about the local stuff. But yet, what’s more important? It’s not the national stuff.
For example, the way we won the American Revolution. You look at the first four battles in the American Revolution, they’re classic big name battles that will be in most textbooks. You’re going to have the Battle of Lexington and Concord, and Bunker Hill, etc..
Nobody contacted the National Commander in Chief and said, “Okay, what’s our plan? What’s our strategy? What do we do?” It was everybody saying, “Hey, this is our community. We’re going to do this in our community.” And we actually won the national war by focusing on winning the local battles.
In Charge Of Your Castle
And it’s worth noting that this was not a situation that– they couldn’t send an email or text message to George Washington. So, it would have taken so long to get word to him that the situation would have been over, the battle would have already been fought, before they could have gotten any response. So, it was really out of necessity that they said, “Hey, we better do something. If we stand here and do nothing we will lose our town.” So, it was out of necessity.
And, dad, as you’re mentioning, the thought was not, “We need someone else to come solve our problems.” In fact, one of the interesting things– James Wilson, who was a signer of the Declaration, signer of the Constitution, who was a member of the original Supreme Court, who actually did a law school training, wrote some of the first law books ever done, pretty significant Founding Father.
But he talked about if somebody gets robbed in their own house it’s their own fault because you’re supposed to be able to defend your own house, it is your castle, you’re in charge of it. This is the way they viewed their cities. If something happens in my city, I’m not going to call on the governor or the president and say, “Hey, come solve the problems in my city.” No, no, no. That’s your own house. You take care of your situation.
And, as you mentioned, that’s the way the founding era families really viewed situations. You know what? The British coming to our town, we’re not letting them take our guns, and take our munitions, and take our supplies. We’re saying ‘no’.” And because they said no, they were able to actually change the very course and nature of the Revolution. Because they weren’t just looking for a national solution. They were willing to stand up and defend what was theirs.
And in a case like this where you’ve got a local school principal that says, “Hey, you can’t go to church– I’ll tell you where to go to church. It depends on where the students go.” What? You don’t have any voice over that. So, what do we do? Let call in a national litigation firm to sue them. No. Let’s get her out of that position. Let’s elect a new school board, or get a new school board president, to get a new superintendent, to get a new principal. This is stuff that’s all very solvable if we focus on it.
So, where did this thing of there’s got to be a national solution to this local problem. No, no, no. There is a local solution to a local problem and that’s one of the things we’ll see with Mat Staver.
So, this is a great program to help us focus on how important that is for us not to just know the name of Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell, but to know the name of our local school board president, and local principals, and others, because that’s where the real battles are going to be and that’s the stuff we need to engage.
Mat Staver from Liberty Council will be our special guest when we return. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
Hey, all your patriots out there that would like to see more Americans study the Constitution and understand the source of their freedom. How do you get people to pay attention to patriotism, the Constitution, the importance of being good citizens. Well, the answer is two words: Brad Stine. You make it fun, you make it fun to learn.
My friends, this is Rick Green from WallBuilders live, and Brad and I are bringing the comedy and constitution tour to you. We’re doing a live stream across the nation on March 23rd, 2019. Visit ConstitutionCoach.com, and you can sign up to bring this program to your church. You can stream it into your home or your local club. However you’d like to bring it. It’s an opportunity for you to bring the Comedy Constitution to your community, which will fire people up to study the Constitution. It’ll educate, entertain, equip, and inspire folks to accept protect and purposely pass the torch of freedom. Check it out today at ConstitutionCoach.com.
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Mat Staver back with us from Liberty Council. The website’s LC.org, one of the best organizations in the country to support if you want to protect your freedom. Mat, always good to have you, man. Thanks for what you guys do out there.
Oh, thank you. Good to be with you.
An Off The Charts Case
So, many cases you are involved with, but a lot of times you don’t actually have to go to court. You all are really good about sending the letters, and working with the schools, or whoever it is, that’s violating someone’s religious liberty. Maybe a case like that here. This one is off the charts. Tell us about this principal telling teachers they can’t even go to a church if their kids go there.
Yeah. This is a principal out in the Midwest and this is not the first time. Last year we had to do something very similar. But this particular principal of this high school told the teacher who we represent that you cannot go to a church event because there’s students that attend.
Now, in fact, the students and the teacher attend the same exact church. So, what she’s saying is you can’t attend the church, you have to go to a different church, because there’s students there, that this somehow violates their so-called fraternization policy where you can’t be off campus with any student no matter what it is. This is clearly a violation of the First Amendment right to free exercise of religion. The school, certainly this principal, has no authority to tell this teacher or the students where they can go to church.
And, in fact, in the year before we had to get the same principal reversed on another matter. After school they were having an adult led Bible study and the teacher was part of it. The principal banned the teacher, so some students decided they would lead it instead. And the same principal said, “No, you can’t have any bible study after school.” We got that reversed as well.
And that’s– you said that was the same school or that was a different school?
Same school, same exact principal.
Where Does It Apply?
Wow. So, just a hostility there. And I’m assuming this fraternization/non-fraternization ordinance or whatever they call it rule is– does that apply to a restaurant? If your kids are eating at the same restaurant, you’ve got to get up and leave?
I understand the general idea behind such a policy like that, but it’s really very all difficult and, frankly, impossible to enforce.
And does that mean if you’re in a shopping mall you can’t see a student, or you can’t talk to a student, you’re in a store and you don’t see them. You can’t sit beside them, or talk to them in a restaurant. In the extreme, I don’t think they’re going to really enforce it that way. Here’s how they really enforce it – because you’re at a religious event, oh, that’s not permissible.
I think it goes back to what we saw a year ago with the same principal. It’s not a policy that they’re enforcing across the board. It’s her anti Christian bigotry in which she’s trying to shut down a Bible study, which we ultimately got reversed, and shut down the teachers opportunity, and the students opportunity, to attend freely their own church and worship as they see fit.
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Now, when you had to do this last time, did they finally– their own counsel advised them to back off? Or did you not have to actually go to court?
No, we didn’t have to go to court. We sent a demand letter and, obviously, on its face it’s unconstitutional. So, to the school’s credit, in their school counsel they ultimately overrode the principal.
You Would Think
You would think that the principal would have some common sense going forward, but even makes a greater mistake. Because nobody with common sense would tell a staff member, certainly a teacher, that you can’t attend, for example, a Christmas play, or a Christmas concert, or Sunday school, or church, at the same time that students are there. The result would be that if the teacher is already there at that church and some students decide to join, that teacher would have to move on to another church. It just makes no sense.
So, I think what we have here is a principal that really needs to give a good dose of the Constitution, common sense, and the religious free exercise. Frankly, this principal, if they don’t do something to bring this person back in line permanently, is going to get this school in a position where we will ultimately file suit. The good thing so far in both of these is that the school immediately overturned this teachers, or the principal’s actions.
But imagine a situation where a teacher did not respond, a teacher just simply went along with the bullying of the principal. That is a real problem. The only reason we got involved is because the teacher, to her credit, contacted us and realized this was not right and was going to stand for her rights.
Yeah, I think you’re right, man. I think it probably happens a lot more than we hear, obviously, because they don’t know, the teacher doesn’t necessarily know, that they have that right and maybe even ignorance, I think, on the principal’s part a lot of times and in communities. They just have heard all this separation of church of state stuff and they’re trying to avoid situations. Sometimes it’s well-meaning – other times it’s just hostility against anything Christian. But this one, man, this one comes across like a restraining order. It’s basically like the principal–
You Don’t Even Have To Know The Constitution For This One
It’s basically like the principal’s giving a restraining order to their teachers.
We start off giving the benefit of the doubt like it may be, as you said, somebody just doesn’t know, they’re ignorant, they have a mistake. But now when we have a pattern–
–that’s not ignorance.
And, in fact, you don’t have to know about the Constitution to make the right decision here. This is just common sense. Let alone the Constitution. So, I think what we have here is a principal that has a motive and it is a motive of ill intent toward Christianity.
Mat, if there are some teachers and administration type folks listening right now and they have similar situations going on, how can they contact you guys for some guidance?
The easiest way is just to go to our website LC.org, LC.org. And from there you can get our information, our contact information, our phone number, and you can also email from that website as well. Or if you don’t go to the web, LC.org, you can call us at 407-875-1776, 407-875-1776.
Alright, folks, you can also hear Mat on his Faith and Freedom Radio program. That can also be found at LC.org. Mat always a pleasure, man. Appreciate you guys so much. Keep up the great work and look forward to having you back again soon.
Thanks. Good to be with you.
Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
Front Sight Handgun Training Course
Hey friends! Rick Green here, from WallBuilders Live. What do Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Rick Green, Tim Barton, David Barton – what do all these folks have in common other than the fact that they’re conservative commentators that defend the Constitution and educate America on the Constitution?
They’re all raving about Front Sight Firearms Training Institute. In fact, if you go to my website right now today at RickGreen.com, you can watch the video of Dennis Prager training at Front Sight, or Larry Elder, or Tim Barton, or myself out there training at Front Sight. It’s an opportunity for you to learn how to defend yourself and your family to make sure that you are ready and able to do that. It is a fantastic place to train. They train 30 to 40,000 people a year, and they’re just wonderful to work with.
And you can go with us! We’re headed back out. We’re going to have a great time out there as the WallBuilders family and if you’re a supporter of WallBuilders, we have an amazing deal for you. It’s actually going to cost you 1/10th the normal price to attend this two day handgun training because you’re going with us. And you’ll also get the Constitution crash course. I’ll be teaching on the Constitution, you’ll get the intellectual ammunition that you need to defend the Second Amendment and our Constitution. As well as getting the physical training on how to defend yourself and your family.
And this is for everyone – guys, gals, everyone should take this class. No matter how much you’ve shot your whole life or if you’ve never touched a gun, learn how to defend your family. We’re going to be going several times throughout the year and we would love to have you be a part of that. Check it out at RickGreen.com today to find out the dates, get all the specifics, and get all of your questions answered. Check out RickGreen.com today to join us on this Front Sight trip for both your constitutional and handgun defense training.
Violation of Which Rights?
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. And thanks to Mat Staver. LC.org is the website for Liberty Council. Check them out today and be sure and support them. They do fantastic work.
Back with David and Tim Barton now. And, definitely, guys, a shocking story and hopefully will be an easy win for Staver and those guys. But he pointed out – unless a teacher stands up, unless they call a Mat Staver, and Liberty Council, or one of the other organizations, there’s a lot of teachers out there that are probably just going, “Yes, sir. Yes, ma’am.” to the principal because they don’t know that they have these rights.
I think it’s a great point that most people in the current climate that we are in have no idea what the Constitution actually says and what their rights are.
And, by the way, may I point out – alright, she has– the principal has this fraternization policy. Forget that. Just based on the First Amendment the Constitution, how many of the five rights did she violate with that policy?
Well, there’s five in the First Amendment, right. But, so, religion was violated, speech was violated. Well, I guess–
Just With One Silly Policy
Assembly definitely violated.
Assembly was violated.
Association, right of association.
So, the press and petition were not violate. So, three of the five–
Three of the five.
You have a local principal who violates three of the five clauses of the First Amendment just with this silly policy.
And this was not the first time this principal violated someone’s constitutional rights. This is where, as we pointed out before even the interview, why it’s so important to get involved in local situations and why we need the right kind of people in school board, who have the right superintendent, who can control this principal.
And Mat pointed out – there is going to come a time, if this principal is not reined in or replaced as the situation might need to be, that this school district could get sued and cost who knows X amount of dollars, right. Whether it’s hundreds of thousands, or millions, whatever it is, I don’t know because we don’t know what’s going to happen. But this principal is clearly taking unconstitutional positions. And the good news is the school district did not support the positions of the principal and– at least on the first one– and they quickly said, “Whoa, okay, yeah, well, let’s not let this principal do that. That was wrong.” Presumably they will do the same thing here. If not then–
But here’s my bigger issue is I’ve got somebody in charge of an entire education system that doesn’t even know the basic constitutional clauses of the First Amendment. And they’re in charge of the education of my kids? What else am I not going to get?
Teacher Told Not To Attend Same Church As Students
Sure. Well, and that’s not just in this school district because we, obviously, understand from polling, and data, and statistics, that most educators are not aware and cannot name the freedoms in the First Amendment. So, if you don’t know what those freedoms are, you’re not going to know when they’re violated.
And, again, this is why it’s so important that we have the right kind of people even on school board or city council to make sure we get the right kind of leaders so we don’t have these egregious attacks against someone’s constitutional rights. In this case, these teachers, and as Mat pointed out, hopefully this situation is resolved the right way. Nonetheless, important that teachers know they have rights and the right kind of people that will defend them.
Thanks to Mat Staver for joining us today. And also, folks, just want to bring you back to what we talked about at the beginning of the program. This is a great opportunity for you to be a part of the solution by going to WallBuilders.com or WallBuildersLive.com and making a donation today.
We sure appreciate your support and we appreciate you listening to WallBuilders Live.