The Battle For Religious Freedom Across The Nation, Part 3 – With Kelly Shackelford: If court-packing is allowed, would your Constitutional rights mean anything?  Why is it essential to understand that court-packing is really tyranny? Shouldn’t states have equal religious liberty protections? Should citizens be allowed to share their faith while talking with an acquaintance at a park? Should people who cause harm to others be responsible for restitution? Today, Kelly Shackelford continues to shed light on the war over religious freedom in our nation. Plus, find out where you can obtain informational resources on your rights or ways to make them even more secure.  Tune in to hear his encouraging update on the winning strategy!

Air Date: 12/16/2021

Guest:  Kelly Shackelford

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


You find your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live, where we’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

If you’re new to us, that name WallBuilders may sound a little bit weird, you’re wondering what does that mean, are these guys in construction, are they trying to build the wall on the border? Well, yeah, we’d like to see that happen. But that’s not what we do. WallBuilders comes from a scripture in Nehemiah that says, arise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be able to approach.

If you think about those nations back then, if you didn’t have those outer walls, you were run over as a nation. It was essential to be secure and to and to defeat your enemies. Well, today, if you don’t have a foundation that you can stand upon, if you don’t have principles that actually produce a good society, you’re going to fall apart as a culture. 

And that’s what’s happening to America right now. We’re watching these cracks in our foundation turn into complete destruction. We’re seeing in many ways, the culture fall apart. And it’s because the foundation, the walls of the nation have been allowed to deteriorate.

So what we do at WallBuilders is we reached back in history, and we say, okay, what actually works and what doesn’t work? What are the foundational principles that made America the most powerful, most free, most successful in terms of prosperity but also successful in terms of our benevolence and helping other nations and just be in the nation that everyone wants to migrate to? 

I mean, why do you think America has more immigrants than anyone else in the world, in fact, most nations in the world combined, because people come here, because it is, in fact, the greatest nation in the world, and it does, in fact, allow for more prosperity and all of those things.

That’s what we’re trying to rebuild. We’re trying to rebuild the foundation that produces a great wonderful culture and what makes your neighborhood the place that people enjoy living, where we get prosperity and freedom and liberty. Well, there’s a formula that produces that and that’s what we at WallBuilders are bringing back to the culture.

So if you want to learn more about WallBuilders, visit our website today, is our main website and then our radio site is This week on WallBuilders  Live, we’re bringing you a special presentation from the ProFamily Legislators Conference. It’s Kelly Shackleford. Now if you are not familiar with Kelly, you got to go to

First Liberty

He’s an incredible attorney, one of the greatest legal minds in America today and actually on the front lines, argued before the Supreme Court, represents people all over the nation for free, defending their religious liberty, defending their constitutional rights. So we love these folks at First Liberty, they do an amazing job. is the website.

Today is actually the third part in a three-part series. So today, we’ll get the conclusion of Kelly’s presentation. He gave it live at the ProFamily Legislators Conference just a few weeks back where we had state reps and state senators from across the nation come together to sharpen each other’s countenance, to share ideas, to get encouraged, and then go back home and fight in their home states in the state legislatures to fight for liberty–

Fight for religious liberty, fight for your First Amendment rights, of freedom of speech, of your ability to even constitutionally make your own decisions about your health and your bodily integrity, all of these things. We’re so thankful for that incredible fight that these legislators are making in their home states.

But Kelly spoke to them. We had a lot of other great speakers that they shared with him and we’ll be bringing you some of their presentations as well. But let’s pick up where we left off yesterday with Kelly Shackleford. In fact, if you missed yesterday, it’s available on our website, just go to right now, the first two parts of this series are available. 

But if you didn’t miss or even if you did, you’ll still enjoy listening to this third part, but then you can go back and catch up there on our website. Let’s jump in and join Kelly Shackleford at the ProFamily Legislators Conference.

ProFamily Legislators Conference


You might think you have constitutional rights, but you don’t. You have whatever rights the majority party wishes you to keep because they can just add Justices until they take those away, whatever it is they want to take away. So this is something we have to stop.

Biden Intends to Pack the Court

Video playing:


President Roosevelt clearly had the right to send to the United States Senate, the United States Congress a proposal to pack the court. But it was a bonehead idea.

President Roosevelt:

Don’t know my opinion court-packing when the election is over. Now look, I know, it’s a great question.

Guest 2:

So I’ll put together a national commissioner of scholars, and I will ask them to come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system.

Guest 3:

This is a live ball.

Guest 4:

Oh, it is a live ball. So we will figure out a way to get something done.

Guest 3:

But let’s take a look and see.

Guest 4:

Everything is on the table.

Guest 5:

We’re going to add 5, 6, 7, 10 seats to the court.

Guest 6:

Well, I think everything’s on the table.

Guest 7:

Everything is on the table.

Guest 8:

All of those matters will be on the table.

Guest 9:

All options are on the table.

Guest 10:

And as I’ve said everything, everything is on the table.

Guest 11:

Presidents come and go. Supreme Court Justices stay for generations.


So what’s happened since then? The President issued an executive order creating a commission to reform the United States Supreme Court. That Commission, as you might guess, a stack with very liberal people. They’ve been meeting. And they’re supposed to make a recommendation this month. A bill has been filed in the house to add four justices to the Supreme Court, a bill has been filed in the Senate to add 203 lower court Judges. I mean, this is court-packing. Okay. And they’ve got other ideas too.

We Must Educate People

So we’ve spent $3 million trying to educate people of why this is a really bad idea, because they tried this back in 1936 and 37 under Roosevelt, and even though his party was so in control, they had 80 of the 100 Senate seats, they still couldn’t get it through, because the American people when they understood this said this was tyranny. 

And they were averaging 1,000 letters a day in US Senate offices. And the guy who was the Senate sponsor for Roosevelt in the Senate died of a heart attack before it was over. So if we can educate people, even Democrats, Republicans, everybody realized you don’t want to destroy the courts.

And so we’re making impact. We move polling. In fact, an early draft of this commission came out, and they cited our polling, and they’re arguing with one another, which is good because they’re all liberal. And so we’ve slowed them down. But their recommendations will come out soon. But I just tell you this because this is a really important thing to keep your eye on. 

And if you want info on all this background, even memes, you can share with other people to educate other people, we created a website called Supreme Coup, if you’re not French, it’s Cup. and you can get all the information there.

But if we can stop this from happening, I really think the future for religious freedom is unbelievable. And so you don’t hear a lot of good news. That’s some good news. So I want to end before I do Q&A with my favorite case this year. And this is a story of Gail Blair, who was slowly going blind and realize the most important thing to her was that people know about Jesus. But she used to be a nurse, she could see people and she’s like, how do I do this? And then she’s just sitting in apartment across the street from the park and she’s like that’s it.

So every day, she goes across the park with her cane, she finds her way into the park, she sits at a bench and hope somebody sits near and when they do she sparks up a conversation. And she offers them a copy of the gospel of John until she was banned for two years from the park in the library for talking about her faith.


Alright, friends, I got to interrupt just for a second here for a quick break, and then we’ll be right back. You’ve been listening to Kelly Shackleford teaching at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. We’re going to jump right back in with Kelly Shackleford speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference about the courts, the religious liberty the victories that have already happened in the last couple of years. Thanks to the appointments by President Donald Trump and the victories that Kelly thinks we’re going to see in the coming years as well. Here’s Kelly Shackleford at the ProFamily Legislators Conference.

ProFamily Legislators Conference.


Nursing was it for me. It was my identity. I did everything. If I could help them get a job or an apartment, my husband says that I am frustrated social worker. January 7th, 1984, I actually had been going for Bible study on the book of John. And it opened my heart to the Word of God being the answer, the truth. It was the best day of my life. I actually was born with a genetic disorder, retinitis pigmentosa, and I still continued nursing until I couldn’t anymore because of my vision loss.

If somebody says, if ever said to me, hey, you could have your eyesight, but you have to get rid of Jesus, I’d say no deal. Wherever I go, I try to hand this out to people. So it’s 21 chapters of the gospel. I get around with my cane to cross the street, to go in the park. Going into a park to talk with people is a pleasure, first of all, but knowing that eternal life is real, and people don’t know that they’re in danger, people have been saved in the park.

I’ve had more of a reaction from the staff in the park that was not too nice, like they would interrupt me. There’s plenty of people to talk to. I don’t have to be going after anybody. But I couldn’t. It would be a tripping hazard for me. 

I was sitting on a bench with a man that I was conversing with, the executive director comes over and he says that he was going to call the police and that’s the start of the two-year ban, even from the library which that was a little bit of a surprise to me, that they would ban me from both the park and the library on passing out one of the 66 books of the Bible that you have in your library that people can check out.

I guess my heart is broken that I can’t do what the Lord has told me to do. So if you want to say that I think about daily the lost souls. I think the Lord has positioned me right across from the park. It’s a divine assignment that I absolutely need to fulfill. It’s just a must.


So the update is we won the case, Gail’s back in the park. Every three weeks or so we get an email or call from Gail because she’s just so excited that somebody else has accepted the Lord at the park. And the guy who turned her in is now coming to her church. You know, what power does Gail have? But she was faithful. And now she’s changing eternity.

And I think it’s that way with us. I mean, I don’t think it takes a majority in this country to do anything. We’re just looking for leadership, enough people to stand for the truth. And I don’t know why God is creating this religious freedom protection. I just know it’s happening. Is there going to be a revival? I hope so. Is it going to be so hostile that we’re just going to need the protection? I don’t know. But what a time to live and to be able to represent Christ when everything’s kind of on the line and when our kids and our grandkids are dependent upon us.


Alright, friends, we got to take a quick break here. You’ve been listening to Kelly Shackleford, he’s speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today.

And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil, and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things, like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out the statement Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America not as the story of a perfect nation of a perfect people. But the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out,, The American Story.


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Kelly Shackleford is our special guest, though not in studio, he is speaking at the ProFamily Legislators Conference, and today is the conclusion of his presentation. We’ve been sharing it for the last two days plus today, so it’s a three-part series; all of it available right now at We encourage you to go to the website today because you can share it with your friends and family, grab those links, send them out. And while you’re there, be sure and consider making that one-time or monthly contribution right there at

Alright, let’s jump back in. Here’s the conclusion with Kelly Shackleford at the ProFamily Legislators Conference.

ProFamily Legislators Conference


I just thank you for what you’re doing. And we want to be helpful to you in any way we can. As I said, we got litigators in every state. So it doesn’t matter where you are. We have people there in addition to our own staff people.

And in the very back, as I mentioned right before you get to notes, there’s a one-page deal from us. There’s a number of kits that you might want to use. Like you might say, gosh, I wonder what the rights are people in the military, or I wonder what the rights of kids in the schools, or I wonder what all the law is on these vaccine mandates, all that’s laid out in there. And so feel free to using it as you want. 

We’ve got one on churches and elections. What’s the law? Because everybody freaks out about elections. It’s a real simple deal that hopefully will put any pastor or church at ease. That might be useful to you, whatever you need, feel free to use any of it. 

Laws to Pass

And then on the back of that page, I’ve got just some different ideas about what you could pass, and that depends upon your state. Every state should have a Religious Freedoms Restoration Act, if you can get one through. We have a federal one. But the federal one only protects you from the federal government.

If you wonder what most people in the military and all these places are relying upon for their protection for like the vaccine mandate if they have religious objections, it’s the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Right? And about half the states or so have them, but everybody should have them. If I’m in a state that doesn’t have one, I’m asking, why should our state have less religious liberty protection than all the other states in the country, right?

But obviously, the gay lobby doesn’t like them, and there’s people that will fight. So you have to look at all these things. And I have a list of just some examples of some things you could pass, but we’re happy to help you, whatever on any issue of religious freedom.


So you went through some of the number of federal judges that were appointed under Trump and it went through lightning speed. Can you give us an update on what the status of the Biden administration nominations, where we’re at as far as, I know, some of those appeals level courts got flipped under Trump? Have any of those flip back yet?


Yeah, Biden is moving at the fastest pace of anybody in the past. I mean, he’s moving faster than anybody. And he’s obviously putting on people that are pretty extreme. Sort of the piece of good news a little bit is he’s more focused on people’s race or those types of things than he is on their ideology. Their ideology is usually pretty bad anyway, but he’s really focused on the wrong things. So we’ll see.

But the big thing is Trump had all these open seats. So in order to catch up with Trump, and even out what Trump did, he would have to be in office for eight years. He can’t. There’s no way he gets anywhere near 200. There just aren’t that many seats available. So he’s going to do what he can and he is doing and they focused on it. And of course, if the Senate changes a year from now, that changes the game too.

And so they’ve already flipped, at least one and maybe two circuits back the Second Circuit out of New York. So they’re going to move things back the other way. But it’s going to take a long time and plus, you got the Supreme Court. Usually, you don’t get three justices on the Supreme Court in one term like Trump did. So that’s a huge deal. And I doubt he’ll have a chance to do anything more than maybe one.

So, I feel like what happened in the Trump administration is going to set things for probably at least 20 years. So it’s really going to make a difference for good while.


Alright, friends, got to take another quick break here with Kelly Shackleford from the ProFamily Legislators Conference speaking there to these legislators. We’ll be right back stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In 1963, the United States Supreme Court decided that voluntary Bible reading could no longer be part of the school day. Founding Father Benjamin Rush known as the “Father of Public Schools” under the Constitution pointedly warned that the Bible should be read in schools in reference to all other books. He specifically warned that if America ever ceased promoting biblical principles in schools, then we would waste so much time and money and punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them. He was right.

We now have 7 million Americans in prison on probation or on parole, and the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Sadly, this was unnecessary, but is the result of no longer teaching the morals of the Bible in schools.

For more information about the Founding Fathers’ views on the positive impact of the Bible in schools, go to


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Let’s jump right back in with Kelly Shackleford from the ProFamily Legislators conference.

ProFamily Legislators conference


Kellyanne from Missouri and the show me state has really demonstrated they’ve shown other states what we should not do. Over the years, we’ve had reforms in tort law limiting a judgment awards to the plaintiffs to the point where some folks are looking for attorneys to take on a case which we’re now at will employment state, and that may have a little bit to do with it. But they’re also related to religious freedom issues. Because of the limited judgments, attorneys have to make a living too. And we haven’t found one yet to take on a case.

They tell me though these cases are winnable. So what can these potential plaintiffs do? Who can they reach out to? Because I don’t think they’re totally religious freedom, short of contract employees. They can be terminated for any reason. And so what would you suggest they do to look for help?


Now you’re talking about in a specific context like you’re talking about the COVID situation, are you just saying in general just torts?

The Bigger Point


Essentially, the COVID situation where we passed a law and I’ll say collectively, I voted against a law that essentially gave healthcare entities and healthcare systems total immunity from patient care liability, as long as it’s COVID-related. And now, with terminations from two major health care institutions in in the state of Missouri, those days are coming where patients may even die in these institutions will be immune from any potential prosecution.

Yeah, look and I think this is the bigger point we could probably have a long discussion about. But let me say something that might be controversial to some people. But limiting awards is really not a very biblical way to deal with things. The people who cause harm to people should pay for that. And it should be the actual harm that they cause.

Now, if you’ve got things like emotional harm and things like that, that are out of control where you get these, you know, okay, but I’ve seen it happen in Texas in other places where they do this tort reform, and they limit judgments. And it’s really not very biblical to do that because you want the people that harm people to pay for that, to give restitution.

In the COVID situation, yeah, there are certainly lawsuits. I’d say the most common lawsuit that’s available to people and we’ve got this by the way. If you go online to, you’ll see the vaccine mandate, religious labor protection kit, it lays out what the law is for you, no matter what your situation, military, private employer, whatever.

But private employers, especially there’s a Title Seven, which is a federal law. And it says that you have to provide religious accommodation, as well as a medical exemption under the federal law as well. But ours focuses on religious freedom because that’s what we do. And so people who are denied that who asked for that at their company, and are denied that, they have a right to bring a lawsuit against that.

The Battle For Religious Freedom Across The Nation, Part 3 – With Kelly Shackelford

And attorneys should be interested in that because they get to recover all of their attorney’s fees if they win those. And so most companies, if they’re being forced to answer that question are granting the exemptions. Now, some places they’re not. But I even find there if people will push a second time, they usually get it. So a lot of people just don’t know what the rights are. And so they don’t know they can ask for these.

And so if nothing else, be a resource to others to let them know that there are protections for them under the law, if they have a religious objection. Title Seven has laid those out for almost 60 years now, they’ve been in place. So they just need to look at our website and read through what their rights are. And then we even have sample exemption forms that they can use to fall through. Thank you for all that you’re doing on the frontlines and let us know if we can help you in any way. God bless you.


Alright, friends, we are out of time for today. But that was the conclusion, that was Kelly Shackleford at the ProFamily Legislators Conference, a three-part series. You can get it at our website right now at Also, encourage you to go to his website, that’s’s the place you can donate to their organization, help them fight these legal battles. You can get on their email list and stay informed. Share their press releases, share their information with as many people as you can.

Do the same for us. Go to today, get on our email list, make that contribution. I know it’s the end of the year, so you’re making those last minute tax-deductible nonprofit contributions. Please be sure and consider WallBuilders Live as part of that. You can make that donation today at

Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.