The Constitution And The Founders, Are They Actually Secular: It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering from those constitutional and foundational principles! Tune in today as we answer your questions such as, is the Constitution secular, is the fact that the word “God” isn’t mentioned in the Constitution a sign that the Founders didn’t want it to be founded on religious beliefs, are Laws of Nature a secular belief, and so much more, right here on WallBuilders Live!

Air Date: 05/11/2017

Guests: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.


Calvin Coolidge

Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”€


Welcome to WallBuilders Live! It”€™s the intersection of faith and the culture.  It’s Thursday, we do Foundations of Freedom Thursday, try to do it every week. And love hearing those quotes from the kids, reading them.

We’re here with David Barton.  He’s America’s premiere historian, best-selling author, and one of TIME magazine’s top 25 most influential American evangelicals, and founder of WallBuilders.

My name is Rick Green.  I’m a former Texas rep, a national speaker, and author.  You can find out more about us and the program at and also

On our Thursday programs, we dive into those foundational principles. That’s why we call it, “€œFoundations of Freedom Thursday”€ and we let you pick the topic. You get to drive the conversation with your questions. So send them into us at

Is The Constitution Really Secular

David, we’re into our what 150 something Foundations of Freedom program?  Over the last few years and I don’t think we’ve ever done this. We actually had a letter with some great questions last week and we didn’t get them finished and so we’re going into a second week with the same listener’s questions because this letter was so good.


It’s going to be fun too because the questions are really vicarious for a lot of things that are going on today. The question that was raised was on the basis of a radio program he was listening to and a Christian person was talking about how the Constitution really is secular and that Christians are worshipping a secular idol when they venerate the Constitution.

Here is this Christian guy talking about how bad the Constitution is because it’s secular based and Christians shouldn’t be worshipping something like that. We’ve turned it into idolatry. And that’s the kind of stuff that is the product of our universities, our schools, and others talking about a godless Constitution.

I mean, there’s two professors from Cornell University who did that book called, “€œThe Godless Constitution.”€ That book has been cited in a number of courts and legal briefs as, “€œHere’s why you can’t have prayer at school, or prayer at a football game, or anywhere. We have a Godless Constitution.”€

By the way, I’ll point out, in that “academic” book by the professor-


There were some quotation marks around that word “€œacademic,”€ right?


Yeah, that’s right. A little bit of air quotes around that. They are Ph.D.s, these guys from Cornell, the two professors. At the end of the book to tell you the authorities on which they base this claim that it’s a secular document, that the Founding Fathers wanted to be secular, and they wanted a secular government. To show exactly the depth of substance on which they make these claims at the end of the book were the footnotes. It says up top where the footnotes are, “€œWe have dispensed the usual scholarly apparatus of footnotes.”€

What did you just say?


No evidence here.

First-Hand Accounts


We don’t have a single footnote in this book but, “€œWe are Ph.D.s, we are experts, and we know what we’re taught.”€ You know what, there’s not a freshman kid in any of their classes that they would let write a research paper without using footnotes and documentation. And yet, they do a book that’s now cited in courts, that has not a single bit of documentary evidence at the end of the book, no footnotes.  They do without footnotes.

They’re making the claim and now people are picking up the claim and saying, “€œWell, you know the academics tell us it really was a secular document.”€ No, read it for yourself. And by the way, if you do, don’t just stop there. There were 55 individuals who wrote the Constitution of the United States. Thirty-nine signed it. Go check their writings out and see if they talked about God anywhere in it. And then look at some of the early court decisions where they are interpreting the Constitution and applying it and using it and see how it was done for generations. See if everybody always saw it as a godless document the way we do now.


And when you say, “€œthey”€ you mean some of the guys actually gave us the Constitution were the ones on the court applying it. And so, therefore, you’re getting the firsthand account.

Congress Is The Determining Factor, Not The Court


You’re getting the firsthand. And let me just take your real simply, as you look at the original court you’re talking about six justices who were placed on the court. Congress gave the authority to President Washington to choose a chief justice. And they said, “€œYou can choose five associate justices.”€ It is Congress that determines how many justices go on the court, and everything about this stuff with the court, the court didn’t make up its own decisions on what it can be. The Constitution says, “€œCongress and the president tell the court what it’ll be.”€

We’ve kind of lost sight of that today. We think the court stands on its own merit. It does not. It stands on the basis of the two branches. But now we have allowed it to tell the other two branches what to do.

But going back to George Washington, of the six guys he put on the court, three of them had signed the Constitution itself, two of them had ratified the Constitution and one had written one of the very first commentaries on the Constitution.

So you”€™ve got six guys on that court who have a really good feel for what’s constitutional. One of those guys was James Wilson the second most active member at the Constitutional Convention. He signed the Constitution, by the way, he also signed the Declaration of Independence-


That puts him in an elite group.


Only six guys signed both documents and he’s in that elite group of six. He’s there from start to finish. From the time before we were a nation, to the time that we now have a nation and a constitution, and he’s on the original Supreme Court.

As he is on the court.  He organizes the first legal training, first law schools if you will, in America and does the very first legal textbooks. And we own those textbooks.

Going Back To The Original Documents

One of the things that we have at WallBuilders is more than a hundred thousand documents from before 1812. We have their writings. I can go to the library right now and pull out those original writings, and when you do, he points out to the law students that no good law in America, no constitutional law, no civil law can be passed unless it conforms to God’s will set forth in his word and in the laws of nature.

So there is a guy on the Supreme Court who is the second most active member and writing the Constitution who says, “€œYou can’t have a good civil law if it is secular.”€ Matter of fact, he said, “€œReligion and law are twin sisters.”€ And he talked about how that they have to be yoked in the same harness together. And if you have a secular constitution it’s not a good one, they never intended it that way.

And that’s why when George Washington left office in his farewell address he said, “€œOf all the habits and dispositions that lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain, would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars?”€

He was saying, “€œGuys, the thing that makes this work is religion and morality.”€ And I’m not going to let you call yourself a patriot if you try to secularize this. So how is it that we have even Christians today saying, “€œOh, the Constitution is a secular document.”€ I mean, they did their best to tell us, “€œNo this is not secular. And if you try to secularize it’s not going to work.”€

Out Of The 250, Only A Handful Of Founders Were Not Religious

And so the notion that’s out there that academics are putting out and when they put these notions out, again, no footnotes, no sources, “€œjust trust us, we’re P.h.Ds.”€ As opposed to all the actual writings of those who were there. George Washington, who’s the president the Constitutional Convention. James Wilson, one of only six assigned both documents, he starts the first laws. I can go through others.

The original Chief Justice was John J. He’s the president of the American Bible Society. He’s one of the guys who founded the Bible Society to make sure everybody had a Bible. You think he’s going to get involved and really push this secular stuff? I don’t think so. And we can go through the other Founders and show the same thing.

So, what happens today is people can name two or three out of the 250 Founders and the two or three they’ll name will be the most secular of the Founders. And they can’t name any of the rest and somehow they think that all the Founders were secular, like Jefferson, and Franklin, and whoever. No, you also have the guys like James Wilson, and Francis Hopkinson, and John Witherspoon, and Benjamin Rush, and all the names you’ll never hear today.

We don’t talk about the 97%. We don’t talk about the 3%, or whatever percent it is. I don’t know maybe it’s 99% to 1%, but it’s only a handful out of the 250 that we would not say are religious, or are religiously motivated, or have active religious faith in their life.


Yeah, you’re not pulling a quote here or there. You’re just scratching the surface of a ton of quotes. And you do put the footnotes in the WallBuilders publications, and articles, that you write, and everything else, to show man.  There are so many sources that back this up. 

Read The Original Documents For Yourself


On the website, we actually even put the original documents up so you can read them yourself. We want people to check sources because we want them to be based on truth.  Acts 17:11 is one of the best verses in the Bible.  Paul as he is doing his missionary journeys he said, “€œI love these guys in Bereans because they won’t believe me. They check the Scriptures every day to see if I’m telling them the truth.”€ And that’s the basis of truth. Go check the sources.

Paul is an apostle, right? He’s had this revelation from Jesus personally. Personally commissioned to be an apostle. “€œI don’t trust him unless I see it for myself.”€ And he said, “€œI love the Bereans because they don’t believe me. They don’t like my credentials. They want to see it for themselves.”€ And that’s the way every American should be with these claims about whether the Constitution is secular not.


Going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back and we’ll actually go back to the letter that brought about this conversation and talk a little bit more about where these things came from. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday.  You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

Abraham Lincoln:

Abraham Lincoln said, “€œWe the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”€

America”€™s History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history.   Joseph Story is one of the most important names in American jurisprudence. Not only was he placed on the U.S. Supreme Court but President James Madison but he also founded Harvard Law School and authored numerous legal works on the Constitution. While today’s revisionist claim that the goal of the First Amendment was absolute religious pluralism.  Justice Joseph Story vehemently disagreed.

He declared, “€œThe real object of the First Amendment was not to encourage, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but was to exclude all rivalry among Christian denominations.”€

According to Founder Joseph Story, Christianity, not pluralism, was the goal of the Founding Fathers in the First Amendment.  For only a Christian nation is tolerant and thus is truly pluralistic. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.

Did The Enlightenment Influence The Founding Fathers

Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution of most of our states and of the United States asserts that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”€


Welcome back.  Thanks for staying with us here on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday on WallBuilders Live! We’re taking your questions and diving into those founding principles in the first segment.

David was talking about some of the faith and the background of these Founding Fathers, we only scratched the surface. And David, you even have a quote from Washington about religion and morality being indispensable.  All of these questions we’ve been taking today and last week came from a discussion about whether or not the Enlightenment had been a secular movement that influenced the Founding Fathers.

You pointed out last week, folks can get that at our website today, but you pointed out last week there are really two different parts of the Enlightenment. There were many Christian writers and philosophers and thinkers in the Enlightenment as well. And those were the ones the Founders actually quoted from.

Even that quote you gave us by Washington, he”€™s watching the French Revolution that was based on the secular enlightenment writers and saying, “€œWe don’t want that. We want to make sure that we keep our respective God and that we keep religion and morality at the heart of who we are.

Question From Michael Of New York

So, let’s go back to that discussion of what kind of nation they actually gave us. The letter, by the way, if you listen last week you’ll get a big chunk of it but it comes from Michael in New York. Great questions in the letter based on a radio interview that he heard. These were these were Christian hosts talking about this.

And David, you mentioned this is happening in the secular professor world out there. But it’s also happening in seminaries and in Christian colleges across the country as well.  They’ve bought these myths and these lies about the Founding Fathers because they’re not going back to the original documents.  So that’s what we try to do.

The Bill Of Rights


Now, Rick, you and I both teach a Constitution course.  Constitution Alive is that course that we have. Folks can get it if they want to see the Constitution and understand it better. But would you consider the Bill of Rights to be part of the Constitution?


Yeah, I’d say so.


You would say so, wouldn”€™t you? It is part of the Constitution.  And by the way, every amendment to the Constitution is part of the Constitution. So the Bill of Rights constitutes part of the Constitution, it”€™s a really key part, by the way.

It’s significant that on the day they finished the Bill of Rights- the Bill of Rights was added after the Constitution is ratified. So, President Washington is now president. We have the first Congress, we have the first House, the first Senate, total of 90 members in the House and Senate, they’re all there.  And several of the state said, “€œLook, we only conditionally ratified the Constitution on the premise and the promise that you were going to add a bill of rights. We want protections for individuals and that document. We don’t want anybody to misread this. We want to make sure that we have these rights in there.”€

And so that’s what the Congress did. So, on the day that they finished the Bill of Rights, they stood in Congress on the floor of the Congress led by folks like Roger Sherman. Roger Sherman by the way, no lightweight. He’s one of those folks that people don’t study today.

Roger Sherman, you could consider him a theologian. He has numerous theological writings and he gets in debates with theologians and it’s fun stuff. Roger Sherman is the third most active member of the Constitutional Convention. He’s credited with coming up with a bicameral system, House, and the Senate.  He’s credited with coming up with the Electoral College. Really good idea if you think the Electoral College is a bad idea then you don’t understand how that works, we can do that on a different day.

A Day Of Thanksgiving To God


Yeah, please go study constitutional law because we cannot lose the Electoral College. It”€™s critical to keep it and we talk about it.


If you just went strictly in the popular vote did you know there’s enough citizens that live in New York, and in Illinois, and in California to have won the last presidential election just with those three states? All the citizens there.


And just imagine how much worse the fraud would be in these big cities where they could run it up and not just win that state. But then when the whole country.


Yeah, the deal was, and back when they modified the Constitution the 12th Amendment 1804, James Hillhouse said, “€œLook, here’s the deal. We have 17 states in the union right now and there is enough people in four of those states to choose the president over the objection of all the other 13. We’ve got to have a balance between the people in the States.”€ And that’s what the electoral college does. And that goes back to Roger Sherman.

So Roger Sherman and the other is Elias Boudinot who was president of Congress during the American Revolution, he signed the peace treaty to end the revolution. He was actually George Washington’s boss in the revolution. And so these two guys take the floor and they start quoting from Second Chronicles Chapter Seven. Actually, chapters 5 through 7 saying, “€œYou know, the Biblical precedent is that when you do something significant in the nation you need to have a day of thanksgiving to go God.


Wait, you said that they take  it to the floor. So, they’re actually in Congress doing this under the new constitution?


Under the new constitution on the floor of Congress saying, “€œLook, we just finished the Constitution. We now have the Bill of Rights, which is the capstone of the Constitution, and the Constitution is now a finished document. What do we need to do on the day that we finish the document? They said, “€œWe’ve got to have a national time of thanking God. Let’s ask President Washington to do that.”€

So, the House passed that resolution. And it”€™s fun to read the debates on the floor of Congress using the Bible and citing the Bible to say, “€œWe need this day of Thanksgiving.”€ So they send this request to President Washington and he said, “€œAre you kidding? Absolutely. We’re going to have a day of Thanksgiving on this.”€ So the first ever federal Thanksgiving proclamation is given by George Washington to honor the completion of the Constitution at that time.

The Duty Of Nations

So they finished the Constitution, but the capstone on it. Here is what George Washington told the Americans about why he is calling for this National Day of Thanksgiving. And by the way, we have the original proclamation up on the website. That’s one of the documents we own, the actual proclamation.

Here’s what George Washington tells them, “€œIt is the duty of nations.”€ Hear that, “€œIt is the duty of nations-“


Not just a right.


Not just a  right and not just of individuals. He said, “€œThis is a national duty.”€ He says four things here, “€œIt’s a duty of nations, number one, to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God. Number two, to obey His will. Number three, to be grateful for His benefits. And number four, humbly to implore His protection and favor.”€ That’s the duty of nations.

So Washington says, “€œAmericans, we’ve just put the caps on in the Constitution. We’ve got to thank God for this.”€ And he says, “€œThe reason we do this,”€ and I’ll read it again, “€œIt”€™s the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God. To obey his will. To be grateful for his benefits. And humbly to implore his protection and favor.”€ Clearly, the Founding Fathers saw the Constitution as a secular godless document, right?


Right, yeah, something doesn’t add up here.


Something doesn’t add up.


One of these things is not like the other. I’m thinking back to Sesame Street here, ok. So one of these things is not like the other. I think the thing is not like the other is when the secularists tell us that these guys did not quote the Bible and did not get influenced by the Bible. I mean, everything they did, and the things they quoted, things they said, points to that kind of influence.


Absolute points. And there’s one other great piece of evidence. People say, “€œWell, the word, ‘God’ isn’t in the Constitution. There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t mean it’s secular, It means just the opposite.


It means just the opposite and we’re going to find out what it means when we come back. Stay with us folks.  We’ll be right back on Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live!

Thomas Jefferson:

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution of most of our states and of the United States asserts that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”€

Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders”€™ library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution.  You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at

Why Isn”€™t The Word “€œGod”€ In The Constitution

President Calvin Coolidge

President Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”€


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live, Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Today we’re following up on some great questions from our audience. By the way, you can send your questions into  It can be about the Founders, the founding documents, maybe something that’s happening right now in our culture,  in our government, and how we should apply those principles.

So David, you were telling us before we went to the break that the word “€œGod”€ not being in the Constitution, while secularist, and frankly Christian professors, are now are saying, “€œThat’s evidence that our Founders did not want us be a Christian nation or didn’t want to reference God at all and they weren’t based on the construction of Bible.”€ And as we were going to break you said, “€œNo, actually it’s the opposite.”€ What does it mean?


Well, if you say that that’s proof of secularism that means you haven’t read the Constitution, you haven’t read history, and you haven’t read what the Founders said about the Constitution.  And you’ll find that the Founders did not believe the Constitution was a standalone document.

They believed that it was part two of the Declaration of Independence which is why Article 7 of the Constitution dates itself not as a new document, it dates itself to the Declaration of Independence.

Significantly, we talked on Good News Friday recently how that President Trump has signed the first pro-life law in 14 years. We haven’t had a pro-life law since back with George W. Bush. Now he signed a law, first time in 14 years.

At the bottom of that law, it said that this law was done in the 240th year of our independence. It did not say, “€œIn the 229th year of our Constitution.”€ It says, “€œIn the 240th  year.”€ That means you went back to the Declaration.  And that’s why to become a state in the United States under the Founding Fathers after we had the original 13, then we started adding other states. We put in, for example, Tennessee and then 1796 you’ve got Kentucky, we have Tennessee and Kentucky come in 1792 in and 1796. 1803 you have Ohio and etc.

The requirements were that if you wanted to be a state in the United States you have to live by the principles of the Declaration and the specifics of the Constitution. That’s part of the requirement for the enabling act to be a state in the United States.

We never separate those two documents, ever, until the modern era. Now we see them as separate.  Well, the recent significant is they talk about God four times in the Declaration.  And they talk about how that what they’re doing is based on God’s law and God’s principles.

Isn”€™t The Laws Of Nature Secular

We talked last week about what the phrase the Laws of Nature, Nature’s God means. And that’s a quote out of the great legal book of that day. And it’s a quote that says, “€œThis is the dual revelation of God. The laws of nature is what God has shown us through Romans 1. And the laws of Nature’s God are the written laws of Scripture that God gave.  He’s the God who created nature and he gave us His will in the Scriptures. And they said that all law has to be based on the laws of nature or the laws of the Scriptures.

That’s in the Declaration. Today, we don’t even understand what that phrase means. But you just can’t say it much more clearly than what they said it back then. Especially when you read them talking about what they said. So they didn’t feel like they had to say anything in the Constitution because they’ve already said it really strongly in the Declaration. Why repeat it? Because this is just the completion of the Declaration, if you will.

We’ve taken the principles and set them forth in the Declaration.  Now we’re showing you how these principles work and operate in the Constitution. But you can’t read the Constitution separately from the Declaration.

And by the way, the U.S. Supreme Court used to repeat that and say, “€œNo, the Declaration is the foundation on which the Constitution is built. You can”€™t understand the structure if you don’t know the foundation. So you never separated them. It’s like having the Empire State Building out there with no foundation under it. You don’t do that, you’ve got a foundation.

A foundation is the most important part. That’s why we used to study the Declaration. We don’t anymore. And we no longer talk about the fact that legally you cannot separate those two documents.

If You Are Going To Be Secular You Can”€™t Call Yourself A Patriot

The seculars have chosen to do so because the word “€œGod”€ doesn’t appear in the Constitution. So they make this nonsensical argument that “€œOh, that shows the Founding Fathers were secular.  They kept the word “€œGod”€ out.”€  No, they put the word God in four times in the Declaration and this was part two of the Declaration.  This was just the completion.

They didn’t need to keep repeating it over and over.  And that’s what we’ve even looked at today with George Washington saying, “€œHey, it’s the duty of nations to acknowledge God.”€ That’s why what we’ve looked at today, Washington said, “€œAll of our political prosperity is built on religion and morality. If you’re going to be secular, I’m not going to let you call yourself a patriot.”€

That’s the kind of tone that these guys had. And so for people today to say otherwise, man, you have to throw out so much written documentation and written history. You have to buy into a bunch of pablum by brainless kind of professors that either don’t know what they’re talking about or they’re speaking maliciously trying to undermine and shift the nation to move in a different direction. And for us to repeat something that’s false it’s not a good deal.

The Founders Ultimate Source Was The Bible


Alright, David, we only got a little bit over a minute and a half left. But if we can, there’s a lot of good stuff in this letter, but the one the other thing I wanted you to address is the idea that somehow the Constitution replaced any moral compass and that it meant that now we rely solely on that. That it’s the final say in terms of our morality in the country. And I don’t remember the Founders ever saying that. It seemed like they always said, “€œWe still appeal to God”€  And that their ultimate source is still the Bible.


Every time somebody wants to move an agenda forward that is contrary to God’s principles, they always say, “The Declaration doesn’t count.” For example, back in the abolition movement, the Democrats said, “€œNo, we”€™ve take an oath to uphold the Constitution. It”€™s the Declaration that talks about “€˜every man has a right to liberty”€™ but that’s not in the Constitution.”€

And then when we got into Roe v. Wade they said, “€œNo, that”€™s the Declaration is what says there is an inalienable right to life. That’s not in the Constitution. So Roe v. Wade is fine.”€

And then as we got into natural marriage, “€œNo, it”€™s the Declaration that says the laws of nature, Nature’s God, and that’s marriage is a man and a woman. We don’t do the declaration. We do the Constitution.”€

So, what happens is any time someone wants to dramatically reshape the culture they say, “€œThrow out the Declaration, we ignore that. All we do is the Constitution.”€

And that’s what’s happening right now. “€œOh, it’s a Godless Constitution.”€ Only if you ignore the foundation when it’s built, only if you ignore what the Founding Fathers told us. Only if you ignore what all the courts said for literally 180 years until they started secularizing the Constitution in 1962. Only if you ignore those centuries of previous interpretation can you get to the strained interpretation that we have now.”€

I choose to go with the original intent. I’m glad Gorsuch is there. And I’m glad folks like that are there that have actually read history and understand it and know how this works because that’s going to bode well for religious liberty in future. And you’re going to find that as we get back to original intent it is not a secular document. It does not create a secular society. It is not a secular way of thinking.


Folks, there is so much more evidence and so much more information. It’s available for you right now at For more information on all the things we talked about today and a lot of great resources check it out We sure appreciate you listening to this Foundations of Freedom Thursday on WallBuilders Live!

Thomas Jefferson:

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œ In questions of power then let no more be heard of confidence in the man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”€