The Fourth Amendment, Celebrating The Anniversary Of The Bill Of Rights Part 3: On WallBuilders Live we are having a three-day series special in honor of the anniversary of the Bill of Rights! We will be sharing a portion from our one of a kind Constitution Alive courses. In these three days, you will learn all you need to know about the Second through the Tenth Amendment. Join David Barton and Rick Green, Constitutional experts and advocates for the original intent of our founding documents as they share with you the meaning and purpose of the Constitution!

Air Date: 09/27/2017


Guests: David Barton, Rick Green.


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Visit online at WallBuildersLive.com and WallBuilders.com. Today is a special program we’re actually concluding a three-part series on The Bill of Rights. This is in celebration of the anniversary of the Bill of Rights it was September 25th, 1789 when Congress proposed the Bill of Rights to the states. Ultimately, it would be ratified by December of 1791.

But we’re celebrating the fact that they brought those amendments, and they sent them to the states, and they protected those individual liberties that we all hold so dear, and they put the federal government in check. That’s what the Bill of Rights is all about.

It’s restraints on the government, not restraints on individual citizens. Let’s pick up right where we left off yesterday. We’ll get the conclusion of Section 9 out of Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green.

What The Founders Intended When They Wrote The Second Amendment  

David:

Sam Adams says this, “The Constitution should never be construed to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms,” Really? I don’t think we’re listening.

Rick:

That right there drives it home.

David:

It should never be construed, ever.

Rick:

Why is there even a debate on this? These quotes are not wishy-washy, they’re not muddy, they’re clear.

He’s one of the chief guys in Massachusetts that caused the ratification of Constitution almost to fail there because he wanted protections for individual rights. So as George Mason did for Virginia, Sam Adams is a big leader up in Massachusetts.

This is what the world, “We want these limitations around the government and the Constitution should never be construed. That’s why we put the Second Amendment in there.”

Then you look at Patrick Henry who says, “The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.” We’re trying to make that as hard as possible, they will do all these checks and-

Continuing, Richard Henry Lee, the guy who made the motion that Congress is separate from Great Britain, but he’s a framer of the Bill of Rights. He is one of the framers in Congress of this amendment. This is what he said, “To preserve liberty, it’s essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike. Especially, when young how to use them.” Woah, teaching kids? These are “radicals.”

Rick:

I love it! Teach the young!

David:

See, we’re supposed to teach it to the rising generation. Do you remember John Jay said, “Teach these rights to the rising generation.” These rights include the right to keep and bear arms. Teach it to the rising generation.

As John Quincy Adams pointed out, the sooner you do that, the less gun accidents you’ll have. Accidents happen from being unfamiliar with it, accidents happen when you get behind the wheel of a car and you don’t have the experience to drive it. Accidents happen when you don’t have experience with guns and you pick one up and you’re curious about it. That’s what they believed.

Even The Founders Were Being Pressured To Be Like Europe

Keep going, George Washington said, “A free people ought to be armed.” Real simple. Then you get James Madison. James Madison said, “The advantage of being armed is an advantage, which the Americans possess, over the people of almost every other nation. In the several Kingdoms of Europe, the governments are afraid to trust people with arms. Not here.”

We get this impetus, even some of our Supreme Court justices said, “Oh, don’t copy the American Constitution. Be more like Europe. They’re so progressive, and avant-garde, and cool.”  

I love how the Founding Fathers, back then, had the same pressure to be “sophisticated–be like Europe.” Look at what Thomas Jefferson said about this, about being like Europe, I love this.

He says, “The comparisons of our governments with those of Europe are like a comparison of Heaven and Hell.”

Rick:

That’s a big difference right there.

David:

Exactly. In Europe, they don’t want you to have guns. And it’s not just in this area, it’s in so many areas. Because in Europe, again, they were secular governments, so government was God.

In America? No, government is to serve the people. God is God, people serve God, and government serves the people.

Rick:

And these guys knew the difference. They had come out from under there so they wanted-

David:

Been there done that.

Rick:

That’s right, been there done that. Then why today do we look at Europe and say, “Oh we want to be like that.” What can we learn from our Founding Fathers-

David:

We can, if we ever studied history. That’s what we’re doing here.

Rick:

That’s what we’re doing, bringing to life what these guys did.

David:

That’s right. And here’s what Jefferson said about the Second Amendment, “No citizen shall be debarred the use of arms within his own lands.” Again, it’s an inalienable right. You can’t take it away.

John Adams says it this way, “Resistance of sudden violence for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and my life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I never shall surrender to the public by the compact of society in which perhaps I could not surrender if I would.”

In other words, you can’t give up your natural rights. It’s it’s like saying, “I give up the right to gravity.” You can’t give up the right to gravity. If it’s a God given right you don’t give it back.

Rick:

It looks like he’s saying too, that resistance to sudden violence is my resistance to that sudden violence. not. It’s not police on every corner, it’s not going to be in every home. So if I’m going to have that resistance to sudden violence I cannot give up that right.

David:

And look what he said, “The maxims of the law and the precepts of Christianity are precisely * in relation to the subject.” Whether you want to go to the Laws of Nature or the laws of Nature’s God, you take it either way. You want to go to the Bible, I’ve got the right of self-defense, Exodus 22, etc. If you want to go to the Laws of Nature I’ve got the right of self-defense. I can’t give up the right of self-defense because it doesn’t belong to me, it came from God. I don’t give it up.

James Willson, An Expert On The Constitution

Look at Alexander Hamilton who said, “The Supreme Being gave existence to man, together with the means of preserving that existence.” He invested in man with an enviable right, inalienable right, to personal liberty and personal safety. So, not only do you have a right to be free, you have a right to be safe.

He said, “The Supreme Being gave existence to man together with a means of preserving that existence. He invested man with an enviable right to personal liberty and personal safety.” You have a right to freedom but you have a right to be safe with that freedom. That’s an inalienable right.

Then finally, one more- I could give a lot more, but you get the point, everybody gets the point here. This is big stuff to them, giving it up is not small. Let me discuss James Wilson for just a minute because James Wilson is no lightweight among the Founding Fathers. One of the six guys who signed the Declaration and the Constitution is the second most active member of the constitutional convention-

Rick:

Which means he’s involved in every debate-

David:

And they liked what he said, because he’s considered a master builder of the Constitution. He had so many inputs with this. Significantly, he starts the first organized law school in America. That’s pretty cool for the guy who had that much influence to say, “I want to teach the next generation these principles and our Constitution.” Over in the library we’ve got his original law books that he wrote. George Washington put him on the US Supreme Court as an original justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.” So Washington who was in the convention saw what he did and said, “You need to be on the court.

Rick:

Wait, let me think about this. If I were writing the resume for someone that I would consider to be an expert on the Constitution, they gave us the Declaration, the Constitution, and served on the Supreme Court, I don’t think you can get any better than that. That’s pretty impressive.

David:

That’s one of the cool things about the original justice. Because under Article 3, the only thing that is required is to have the Supreme Court, as you pointed out from Steve King, Congress can constitutionally reduce the Supreme Court to nothing more than Chief Justice sitting at a card table with a candle. They can’t.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “As incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you’ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

This Is Off Limits To Government

The Constitution doesn’t have any justice .* So the original Congress said to President Washington, “We’ll give you a chief justice and we’ll give you five associate justice, choose them.” So he chooses six folks to be on the court. Three of the six signed the Constitution. Two of those six ratified the Constitution. And one of the six wrote the Federalist Papers.

Rick:

That’s pretty good.

David:

I’m going to think that they probably understood what was constitutional. And that’s why when you can use their legal commentaries, and their input, and their interpretation, now you’re starting to see how they they designed it and they showed us how it’s supposed to apply. So in case it wasn’t clear to us they’ve made it clear.

Look what he says about Second Amendment issues. This is really cool. He says, “The great natural law of self-preservation cannot be repealed, or superseded, or suspended by any human institution.” That’s pretty clear. No government can take away your right to defend yourself.

Rick:

That is clearly an inalienable right. You cannot take this away.

David:

Look at this, “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves shall not be questioned.”

Rick:

Not only can you not take it away, you can’t even question it.

David:

It’s one that’s off limits for government to even mess with. He continues, “Every man’s house is deemed by the law to be his castle and the law invest him with the power and places on him the duty of the commanding officer of his house.”

Rick:

There again, it’s not the police’s responsibility, it’s our responsibility.

David:

This is the Castle Doctrine. Every man is in charge of his castle, which is his house. He said, “Every man’s house is his castle. If any one be robbed in it, it shall be esteemed his own default and negligence.”

If you get robbed in your house don’t you blame the cops for not getting there fast enough. You are in charge of defending your house, that’s a Law of Nature, it’s a law of Nature’s God. If you don’t do it, you’re at fault. If you get robbed it’s your fault.

Rick:

That’s a different perspective than what we typically teach today.

David:

That’s the Second Amendment.

Rick:

I wish though David, that you had more than just one or two quotes. I don’t know how many you just went through.

David:

I’m just picking and choosing.

Rick:

You even said it earlier, you said, “I’m going to pile them on. I’m really going to pound this into the ground.” That’s what we need to do. We need to know this was so overwhelming. And those were not little quotes, those are strong, strong, quotes.

David:

And people need to know they’re like this on nearly every issue. As we talked about, even, “Is a business too big to fail, shouldn’t federal government bailout a private business?” They’ve been there and done that. So many things that we deal with. They have already dealt with.

Rick:

I bet you that people that are watching this have felt in their gut the truth about some of these issues. But they haven’t had that ammunition, no pun intended, to the topic we are covering. Actually, pun intended.

They haven’t had all of that evidence to pile on to that gut feeling and now they’re getting it. So I guarantee you, because they come up and tell us all the time after presentation, “Wow, now I know what I felt in my gut was right.” It’s there, we’ve just got to draw it out.

David:

The cool thing is that we’re able to do that. That’s why these things exist, that’s why we have what we have here. From an intellectually honest standpoint, if people want to say, “I don’t care what they wanted, I want something different today.”

Ok, let’s have that debate. But don’t ever tell me the Founding Fathers didn’t want this as the constitution intended, when we have this. If you want to be honest with me and say, “I don’t care a flip what the Constitution says or what they want. Here’s the way I want to discuss it.”

All right, let’s go to that point. Let see who wins that. But so often the courts say, “The Founding Fathers said.” or, “The Founding Fathers interpreted this amendment to mean.” No. That’s why it’s so good to go back here and that’s why we used to have a government education system.

Rick:

Because it would bring out all the education that you’ve got here in the library.

Is Our Fourth Amendment Right Being Violated

Any of the other ones you want to-

David:

Let’s do the Fourth, you’ve got Fourth Amendment? Read the Fourth Amendment.

Rick:

Alright, let’s check out the Fourth Amendment. And we went over this lightly at Philadelphia. But I’d love to get more of the Founders’ quotes on this. Fourth Amendment, a lot of people have been asking, “Is the Fourth Amendment being violated with some of the things they are doing in airports and whatnot.”

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

David:

Keep the hand there, we’re going to come back to it in a minute. What were the four categories said to be protect?

Rick:

Persons, houses, papers, and effects. What is an effect?

David:

Effects?

David:

Yeah.

David:

Those are the things you own, that’s your property.

Rick:

So that is their word for- ok, persons, houses, papers, and effects.

David:

And all your personal property. Let’s go back- To understand what we talked about earlier, to understand the Constitution you have to understand the Declaration. We go back to the Declaration, that is the result of the Declaration of grievance against writs of assistance.

Writs of assistance is really interesting stuff. The British wanted the monopolies, and the British wanted to tax the dickens out of you so that you’re not allowed free market competition. The British will * you sugar. “I can get sugar out of a different place for one third the price.” 

“No, you will buy our sugar.”

So there was a Sugar Act, and Molasses Act, and all this other stuff. They said, “You don’t get to compete. You will buy what we send you at the prices we give you.” Well, that’s where black market smuggling went up.

That’s where a lot of these guys would go up to Canada, get it, and come back, and sell it in the United States in a competitive market, free market. Anywhere you have a monopoly it’s because the government’s involved. We think the government busts monopolies. No, government creates monopolies. Free market busts monopolies.

Rick:

That’s right. And the government protects monopolies.

David:

That’s right. The government protects monopolies by eliminating competition. So what happened was you had all these Americans who were in violation of British laws. Well, I’m sorry, that violates the Laws of Nature. You can’t tell a raccoon, “You can only get food from this tree.” If a raccoon wants food on this tree he can go wherever he can get the best food.

This monopoly stuff violates the Law of Nature. You’ve got competition all over nature, any animal will go where it wants, squirrels go wherever the trees have the best amount of nuts for them.

So, the British have now made a lot of Americans into criminals by this black market stuff. How do you punish that? “Well, we’re going to go search your house and see if you’ve got some illegal sugar in there. You don’t have the right king’s seal on your sugar, or your molasses, or your butter, or whatever it is.”

The way they did that was with writs of assistance. So the British come knocking at your door, they say, “I have a judicially issued warrant here to search your house.” 

“But what are you searching for?”

“We don’t know but we’re going to search your house.” They take the judicial warrant, they go in, and they look, and they look, and they look. And finally under the fourth bedroom, below the third pillow, they find a cube of sugar. They then fill out the warrant saying, “We’re searching for illegal sugar in your house.” They then arrest you and haul you off.

Now, the Founding Fathers said, “Wait a minute, you’re making us condemn ourselves. You’re coming into our homes looking to find something wrong. You don’t know that anything is wrong, but you think there might be something wrong. So you’re coming into our homes, you’re searching our persons, our houses, our papers, and our effects, trying to find something wrong. We’re not going to have that.” Read it again.  Read what they say.

Rick:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

David:

So you don’t get an open want to come in and search. You have to have probable cause, you have to have pretty compelling belief that there’s something illegal there, and you have to specifically say what you’re looking for.”

So when that British guy knocks up he says, “You know, 24 of your neighbors have testified that you have ilegal sugar here and I know where it is. It’s in that closet that you have down the hallway.” Unless it’s something like that, you can’t.

Now, let’s understand the writs of assistance. Your home is your gift from God. That’s why we have the Third Amendment to protect the privacy of the home. You are the head of the castle not the government.

IRS knocks at your door and says, “We’re here to do an audit of you.” What are you going to audit?” “I don’t know, bring out the last three years of your check stubs and we’ll go through until we find something wrong. Once we find something wrong we’re going to nail you with a penalty.”

Rick:

You know, that just doesn’t sound particularly like describing. That sounds like the old, “anything and everything.  We don’t know what we’re looking for but we’re going to find something.”

David:

The way the Founding Fathers have done that is, “IRS, great, you’re welcome to come search my check stubs just as soon as you bring me a judicially issued warrant specifically listing the check stubs that you want to see.” But see, we don’t know that history. So we let all sorts of audits take place without saying, “Whoa. You don’t have a right to come into my home. That’s not your jurisdiction, my home.”

That’s why the Fourth Amendment is so interesting because it is persons, houses, papers, and effects. Anything I own, all my effects. Whatever I’ve got in the garage, whatever I got in the storage barn out back, I’ve got a farm down here with three barns on it, that’s my effect. You can’t get into it without specific delineation of what you’re looking for and probable cause that I have what you think is here.

Rick:

It is kind of a slippery slope, right? We’ve allowed this to get that bad because we didn’t know about this and so we thought, “Yeah, I guess they have to verify people’s income and whatnot.”

David:

It’s the fiction of the law.

Rick:

It’s that fiction you talked about earlier. So now we think, “Well, they absolutely have the right to come in and to identify all those things, but they really don’t.”

David:

If we know the Constitution. See, this is where you assert the Constitution. You say, “IRS, you’re welcome to come back as soon as you bring with you a judicially issued warrant and specifically detailing things to be found on probable cause.” And when you get that, you’re welcome into my business.” See, that’s what the Founding Fathers would have peaceably done.

Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution.  You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at WallBuilders.com.

What Is The Fifth Amendment

Rick:

There is so much that we can dive into it with each and every one of these. We’re scratching the surface, we are getting to as many as we can. Again, like we said earlier, it’s the Quick Start guide. We want to just give people a chance to get plugged in.

What about the Fifth Amendment? Before we get out of this and come back on the amendment process.

David:

The Fifth Amendment is the right of self-incrimination. By the way, The way the audits happen now, they require you to incriminate yourself. You have to provide the evidence. But the Fifth Amendment says, “You can’t do self-incrimination.”

See, the Due Process Clause ia from 4th to 8th amendment which are designed to make the government prove that you’re that guilty against everything you can do otherwise. You do not have to cooperate with the government. They can be compelled, they can bring witnesses, but you can compel witnesses to come in your favor. You have every right to make it as hard as you can for the government to prove you’re guilty of something.

That’s what the due process is. They’ve got the weight of government, all the attorneys, and they keep printing money, they don’t run out of money. You’ve got the right. So, if they come to audit you, now were guilty of self-incrimination, that’s the Fifth Amendment. But also, on the Fifth Amendment is the takings clause that says, “Government cannot take any property without compensation.”

How does government take property? Well, there are several ways it can do it. It can do it through eminent domain. The Supreme Court changed that from public use to public purpose. Public use made it very hard for government to take property, public purpose makes it very easy.

Rick:

That’s a great example of the Constitution being modified by the by the courts without we the people actually being the ones to do it.

David:

James Madison talked about other ways the government takes your property and doesn’t compensate. You gave the example of that Yellow Chief Warbler. And I’ve got personal experience. We had a ranch down in Texas where all this happened. And for seven years the federal government told us we could not cut cedars on our ranch because there might be a Golden Chief Warbler out there somewhere.

Rick:

Really? I didn’t know that it personally impacted you guys.

David:

And in that part of the country if you can’t stay ahead a cedars you will lose your ranch. It will take over, they grow like weeds, each cedar drinks about 40 gallons of water a day. They dry out the land. So, we couldn’t do it. These are environmental folks that are very definitely pro-evolution. And I say, “Well, what happened to survival of the fittest?”

And by the way, if that Yellow Chief Warbler doesn’t have the sense to fly out of a tree that is being cut down, it needs to be extinct. But that’s another argument. Nonetheless, they basically ruined our ranch because we lost control of it. We couldn’t keep our cattle grazing because now on the property we couldn’t cut down cedars.

What compensation did we get? Absolutely none. Well, government just took our property, they took it over as if it were theirs, told us what we could and couldn’t do on our own property.

See, this is what James Madison talked about. This is not a new issue of Government. You go to James Madison and he says, “The government is instituted to protect property.” We’ve looked at it in several ways. He said, “You’re conscience is property and other things.”

He continues, “This being the end of government, that alone is a just government which impartially secures to every man whatever is his own.” Thomas Jefferson said that includes your income. If you spend your time, your sweat, your blood, your tears, for income, that’s your property. Government is here to protect your property, not take it.

Rick:

Yeah, not take it from others.

David:

That’s right. So they held that. He continues, “It’s not just government, nor is property secure under it, or arbitrary restrictions *,”  We’re talking about zoning use. He says, “Government comes in and tells you what you can and can’t do with your property.” “Your property is an American Heritage site. No, it’s part of the river act. No it’s a swamp land.” So, they’re coming in now and zoning.

A lot of churches are finding this, that they’re being told- there’s a church in Portland, Five hundred people go to church there, great Church, it’s growing church, Portland came and says, “No, we don’t like 500 people going to church. We’ve zoned it for only 80 people and that’s all you can have.” “Wait a minute, it’s our property.” “Yeah, I know, but you’re using our property. We don’t want more than 80 people on our property.” So that is a violation of inalienable rights.

Then he says, “Or the property which a man has in his personal safety and personal liberty is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class citizens for the service of the rest.” That is the Kelo decision.

The Founding Fathers, again, are very explicit on what the government is and is not to do. The Fifth Amendment, if they take your property through zoning regulations, that you can no longer use it, if they take it by saying, “You’ve got a Yellow Chief Warbler out there and you can’t use your own property, they’ve got to compensate you for that.” But that doesn’t happen because we don’t know what that Fifth Amendment means anymore but the Founders, again, were very expressive on this.

Rick:

Just the quotes themselves, obviously just reading the Constitution you’ll realize you should be compensated when that property is taken. But the way they describe it, I mean, to a T that’s exactly what’s being violated today. Those are excellent quotes. So if we’ll study that, again, getting back into the minds of the Founding Fathers, then when we go vote for a congressman we ought to ask them, “How do you feel about the Endangered Species Act and how it’s being used to take people’s property?

And in many other levels but using these quotes, using the Constitution itself to make decisions about who we’re going to elect, who we’re going to put in office, that will turn this thing around. But this is all part of that. We’ve got to think long term, it’s all about applying these principles, comes back to that idea of to we’ve got to read and study, then we will be able to defend and assert that.

When we come back in our next section we’re going actually get into amendments. What can we do to make sure that the Constitution and the original intent is actually being enforced in our country. So in Section 10 we’ll check out the amendment process here on Constitution Alive.

The Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment, And Fifth Amendment

Rick:

Well friends, that was Constitution Alive, section 9 on the Bill of Rights. If you want to get the full program go to WallBuilders.com to get those DVDs and the workbook and share it with as many people as you can. That’s how we’re going to save the republic, we’ve got to get folks educated about the proper constitutional jurisdiction of government and what we the people need to be doing as citizens to restore that republic and preserve that Constitution.

This was a three part series, right now, all three programs are available in the archives section on WallBuilders Live, the DVD set of the entire Constitution Alive program available at WallBuilders.com. Thank you so much for listening today, to WallBuilders Live!