Decision 2020 – What’s Going On In Pennsylvania?: Will We Be Closer To Knowing Who The Lawful President Will Be This Week?Were there any big developments over the weekend? What did Judge Patricia McCullough’s decision mean for Pennsylvania? Does the American public support Trump’s election battles?  Tune in to hear what may happen this coming week as we continue to get closer to the truth of Decision 2020!

Air Date:v 11/30/2020

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. Thanks for joining us today on WallBuilders Live. It’s the Monday after Thanksgiving, we hope you had a wonderful time with your family. We have so much to be thankful for. 

I mean, even during tough times, some crazy times, not unlike Lincoln in 1863 with that Thanksgiving proclamation, even in the midst of the war, recognizing all that we do have to be thankful for. And we hope you had a great Thanksgiving weekend with your family. Thanks for spending your Monday with us.

I’m Rick Green, America’s Constitution coach and former legislator, here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton’s with us national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And guys, here we are, we still have election news to give. Oh, what are we? 

Four weeks, it’s four weeks, guys, tomorrow will be four weeks from the election. The Constitution still playing out, not just in the presidential election, there’s still some congressional races that are just now being decided. So a lot of interesting news over the weekend to catch people up on.


Man, there’s a lot of stuff that happened over the weekend. Even though last Thursday was Thanksgiving, it always seems to me like Thanksgiving last longer than a Thursday. I mean, it doesn’t seem like a middle of the week holiday. It seems to go Thursday and Friday and Saturday and Sunday.



That’s because the leftovers last that long.


That’s right. That’s right.


You keep all weekend and it’s glorious.


So it always seems to me like the whole weekend is Thanksgiving, the whole weekend is the holiday, and you know so many people take Friday off as part of Thanksgiving. But when it comes to courts, there were a lot of courts that were in session, Friday and Saturday and over the weekend, and so there’s been a whole lot that’s happened since last week.

And so last week, we did a Thanksgiving program with just a little bit of news and Friday, we kind of went back to our Good News Friday. But what’s happened over the weekend has been just amazing. So I want to go back to something that happened last Wednesday. last Wednesday in Pennsylvania, a State Judge there said wait a minute, hold off.

Judge Patricia McCullough

Nobody’s going to certify the election till I have an evidentiary hearing on Friday. I’m going to listen to evidence and see if there’s enough cause to be able to say that we should not certify the election results. And so she held that hearing on Friday after Thanksgiving.


Yeah, one of the things that was interesting about this hearing is, and this was Judge Patricia McCullough from Pennsylvania and she was listening to the evidence and she said, you know, it seems they have a really good case. Part of the case that was being made, there were State lawmakers, State legislators, who pointed out that one of the things that happened, Act 77, the State legislature had determined that it was going to be acceptable to change their voting pattern.

The problem is their voting system was established under the Constitution of Pennsylvania and to change the Constitution, you have to go through the constitutional amendment process. That was not done. And so they were contending that the way these laws were done is actually unconstitutional, according to their state constitution.

And she looked and said, you know, it actually seems that there’s a lot of merits to this, their success in the merit. She said, petitioners appear to have a viable claim in the mail-in ballot procedure set forth in Act 77 is not correct. And so you have a Judge recognizing that the mail-in ballot system is not accurate, not correct. And I think part of what Act 77 was, was saying that anybody can arbitrarily request a mail-in ballot, and it used to be that you had to show calls for a mail-in ballot.

And I think they were probably trying to argue that because of COVID 19, everybody now has a cause, even though many people were going to the grocery store or the liquor store, or whatever the case might be, they were going out in public, but they just couldn’t go vote therefore, we’re going to send these ballots to everybody. That’s what the State legislature tried to do, but they did it in violation of the constitutional process. And so that’s what this Judge was hearing. And she said, they really do have grounds and there’s merits for this argument and that happened on Friday.

The Fox Guarding the Henhouse


So she issued an injunction, says certification cannot go forward, because there’s merit to their argument. Well, here we come to the next day. On Saturday, the State Supreme Court jumped in and in a unanimous opinion, they overruled her.

And they said no, she can’t stop the certification. It is going forward. We’ve looked at that law, and the legislators did not challenge the law in a timely manner. They should have done it before this, and they didn’t, and because they didn’t, we’re going to certify the election results and the election results are going forward for Biden.


And let’s not forget who this State Supreme Court is. This is the same State Supreme Court that was part of creating the scheme back before the election that everybody said, wait a minute, you can’t do this, only legislators can do this. So some what kind of, I know this is a different issue, because this is dealing with the statute from a year ago, but just want to make sure everybody knows is the state Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, not the US Supreme Court, they haven’t heard this issue yet.


And so this really is the fox guarding the henhouse. It is what it amounts to. We’re the ones who change this ruling, we’re the ones who went in a different direction, and you’re trying to change what we did and we’re not going to let you. And so they issued this ruling with prejudice, which essentially says, don’t come back to us again. We’re done with this issue. We’re telling you we’re certifying results and you’re not going to stop it. So that’s what the Supreme Court has done with this.

Pennsylvania Election Laws


And guys, this is going on also happening at the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in Pennsylvania, or at least the court that oversees the District of Pennsylvania. The Trump team was challenging some what was happening in Pennsylvania with some of the process of what happened with voting where their poll watchers were kicked out with some of the ballot counting, some of the procedures, and the Third Circuit came back and dismissed the case.

In the midst of dismissing it, they said that ballots are governed by Pennsylvania election law and so no federal law requires poll watchers, or specifies where they must live or how close they may stand when votes are counted. And so what they essentially do is say, look, the federal government has no business in getting involved and saying if the Pennsylvania State was corrupt or not, because each state gets to do what they want to do, and so if they’re corrupt, they might have been, but that’s not a federal issue. That seems like a really crazy ruling. After this came out, the Trump legal team seemed very optimistic, they said on the SCOTUS, which is actually what they wanted in the first place.


And SCOTUS is?


 The Supreme Court of the United States of America. So they’re actually appealing to the Supreme Court, which is where this was going to end up anyway, no matter what happened at lower courts, one side or the other was going to appeal it on up. And so now this is going to the US Supreme Court and this will not be the only law suit most likely that makes its way to the US Supreme Court. But all of these things were happening largely over the weekend, since we did the last radio show on Friday, and so there’s just a lot happening related to Pennsylvania.

The American Story


Alright, guys, we’ve got other election news, but we’re running out of time. So let’s take a quick break, we’ll come back and look at some other things across the country. The election’s not over, folks, lots of things being decided, including congressional races. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about our new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” And yet what we see through history and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to and check out The American Story.


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on this wonderful Monday after Thanksgiving. Hopefully, you’re out of your Thanksgiving food coma at this point. But as Tim said, those leftovers can last for days, and days and days. I’m actually convinced my aunt said this the other day, the day after Thanksgiving, that’s the best food all year long, for some reason.

What’s Going on in Pennsylvania?


Totally agree.


Yeah, warming it up is even better than on Thanksgiving Day. Okay, guys, back to the election. We talked about Pennsylvania, that one definitely going to be going before the US Supreme Court at some point here. Where else do we have some updates from?


Well, we’re going to Pennsylvania again, there’s a lot of drama still left in that State. So in addition, talking about the State courts in Pennsylvania, and the federal courts in Pennsylvania, let’s talk about the legislature in Pennsylvania. And so the legislature this weekend, and Friday, etc. they convened a legislative hearing to hear evidence. The legislators wanted to see what evidence is out there.

And they don’t have this thing where like the State Supreme Court said, well, you didn’t get to us in a timely manner. These guys just want to see the evidence.

And so they listened to all sorts of experts. There were all sorts of forensic computer scientists. There’s guys that are called White Knights, they hack computers for election services to show no, your computer is vulnerable and here’s how you need to tighten it up.

USB Cards

And so all these guys that are experts and being able to see if hacking has gone on, and so they went and testified and they went through all the problems, the chain of custody that was broken. That when you take those USB cards or whatever out of the machine, you’re supposed to not pass them off and pass them around to all sorts of other different entities that aren’t part of the chain of custody before they get to where they’re being counted. And that happened, so people who weren’t supposed to be touching them, were touching them.

There’s a lot of USB cards they can’t even find now that they were counted, and then one where that the same USB was put in a machine 24 times and the guy watched to go in 24 times on counting. And so you know, they just went through all of this stuff on what they accounted for hundreds of thousands of what they believe could be fraudulent…


Including one of the things that stood out to me the most was when Giuliani went through the thousands and thousands of people that returned their mail-in ballot the day after it was mailed, the day of, and even some of them magically, the day before it was mailed. So I mean, they went through all of these examples.


Yeah, there was so much and so the legislators hear this, and to them, it’s kind of a no brainer. They say, wait a minute. This is a lot of evidence and not just small stuff, this is big stuff that we’ve got a lot of corruption going on here.


I think they were embarrassed. I think they were embarrassed as legislators, right? We’re embarrassed for our State that this is this bad and we have to do something about it. That’s the sense I got.



Well, and certainly you would think too that they’re afraid frustrated, because many of them see the fraud. They see the irregularities, and they’re thinking, okay, we’ve got to do something.

One of the things, guys, that they were talking about doing in the midst this process was the GOP legislators in Pennsylvania, both the House and the Senate, for the State legislative body are controlled by Republicans. And so they’re looking, actually, talking about the idea of appointing electors, because part of how the president is chosen is that when whoever wins the vote in the State, they get the electors from the state.

But the electors at this point, the State legislative body is saying maybe we need to appoint the electors instead of letting it just be the vote, because it seems like the vote, there’s a lot of fraud, there’s a lot of irregularities, there’s a lot of problems with what is going on.

And it’s actually today, right now, Monday, November 30th, is when they are going through this process of what they’re going to do. And so it could be later today, it could be tomorrow, we will find out something about what’s going on in that process. The challenge is going to be in order for them to do this, they would need the largely full support of all of the Republican members in the House, in the Senate.

And right now, they do not have that, it looks like they have a majority, but not majority of their delegation, but not all their delegation, and they would need pretty much all their delegation to be able to override the opposition of the Democrats. And you have a Democrat governor and Democrats secretary of state offices also involved in this. So there’s a lot of battle going on.

Equal Protection

But as they’ve seen, from all these testimonies, what looks like a lot of potential fraud, certainly, a lot of irregularities, a lot of smoking a lot of areas, they’re already having a lot of conversations, even today about how to resolve some of those issues.


And Sunday, the White House had a lot to say even about what was going on with the legal stuff, because now you’ve got the State courts, you got the federal court, now you get the legislature. Well, on Sunday, the White House was commenting about what happened with the Third Federal Circuit Court of Appeals.

And as Tim mentioned, they just dismiss the thing out of hand and say, look, we’re the feds, we’re not going to be controlling regulating the state law. And so Kayleigh McEnany, was commenting those to the White House to look that the Third Circuit just misunderstood what was being argued, because this is an equal protection argument.

You have 67 counties in Pennsylvania, 7 are blue, and 60 are Red. And in the blue counties, for the mail-in ballots, if a mail-in ballot lacks something or was incomplete in those seven counties, they let the election officials call the people and say, hey, you need to come in and fix your ballot and correct this or get the address right or sign it right or whatever.

But they did not let that happen in the 60 Republican counties. So you didn’t have a uniform standard across the state for Republicans and Democrats. And that’s what the argument was about, was this as equal protection under the 14th amendment, everybody’s got to be treated the same use and the standard.

And 20 years ago, in the case Bush v. Gore, or Gore v. Bush, whatever it was, when it got to the Supreme Court, that’s where the Supreme Court said no, no, no, Florida has used the same standard across the State, all counties have to use the same standard. So the White House is now speaking out that the Third Circuit just misses up completely is this is an equal protection argument. And you guys turned it into whether the feds are taken over the election process.

US Supreme Court


And it’s interesting, too, that the argument was that they misunderstood. Because they misunderstood, either somebody wasn’t listening or somebody did a poor job communicating. Because guys, as communicators, and we travel and speak a lot, if we’ve finished a talk a presentation, if we were in a church or a school or political event, or whatever we were doing, if at the end of talk, people were like, I have no idea what you just said.

Either you are not listening at all, or we were terrible communicators. And it’s interesting, trying to figure out okay, so was the Third Circuit just not listening to these arguments, or were they not communicated effectively, efficiently? Or maybe, and I think this is by far the least likely option, maybe were they like, you know what, let’s just go ahead and move this along to the US Supreme Courts or not, we’re just going to kick it out and you guys figure it out. Either way, it seems weird what was going from that.

And President Trump came out after they realize they’re going to the US Supreme Court, and there was an article that came out where it says this is the headline of the article. “Trump Expresses Doubt on whether Supreme Court will hear Election Cases”. And I’m not totally sure that he’s expressing great levels of doubt from the parts of the interview that I heard from the transcript that I read, what he does say is that it’s very hard to get a case to the US Supreme Court.

That is true, because of the tens of thousands of cases that people apply to get the US Supreme Court. The Supreme Court takes very few cases in relation to how many cases are appealed to them.

Trump points out that we’ve got the best Supreme Court advocates and lawyers that want to argue the case if it gets there. One of the things he said in the interview, though, is that he’s afraid that they’re not allowed to present their proof. And he’s saying this is some of the lower courts, they’re not able to present all the evidence they have. One of the things you’re hearing is that as president, he doesn’t have standing, and he’s going right, this is crazy.

Hundreds of Affidavits

How do I not have standing? I’m the one they’re voting for. I’m the one that’s getting cheated here. And he points out, we have affidavits. We have hundreds and hundreds of affidavits. And so this is their position now that ultimately, they’re just waiting on the Supreme Court to see if this case will be taken up.

I mean, guys, for me, I don’t see any way the US Supreme Court can’t take up this case so at least the evidence can be presented so there can be transparency so people can see what’s going on and then ultimately, you would argue that justice could prevail. Because at this point, if it’s not picked up, there’s going to be a lot of people that are fuming and frustrated seeming like justice is not even having a chance to be heard.


Yeah, I think you’re right. I think they have to hear it, they have to make a decision. Whichever way the decision goes, whether they find some technicality to hang on to, you know, or they actually uphold the rule of law and the Constitution and possibly throw out some of these states.

I mean, whatever their decision ends up being, there’s got to be a decision if you want to at least get people calm enough to say, okay, we think this thing got stolen, but we’re going to fight for the next four years in the next election. So it’ll be similar to Jackson and Adams, it’ll be similar to Cleveland. I mean, it could be similar to some of those historical examples, but they can’t just leave this out there hanging.


And by the way, when you said similar to Cleveland, that’s not the town of Cleveland, that’s talking about Grover Cleveland and he was the President of the United States.

Biographical Sketches


He’s the one that messes up all of our memorization as kids, because, you know…


That’s right. He’s got two terms, but they weren’t sequential, they were separated for years. That’s right.


Right. And that one in the middle was a very contentious of all kinds of claims of fraud on both sides. And anyway, well, it a little bit of history there. We got to take a quick break, guys.  When we come back, we’ll get some of these other election results around the country. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


Hi, friends, this is Tim Barton of WallBuilders. This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. And I know oftentimes for parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

And if you remember back to the Bible, to the book of Hebrews, it has the faith Hall of Fame where they outline the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans, we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes, not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity in our faith as well.

I want to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called The Courageous Leaders collection. And this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers. And there’s a second collection called Heroes of History.

In this collection, you’ll read about people like Benjamin Franklin or Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, friends, the list goes on and on. This is a great collection for your young person to have and read and it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at That’s

Election Results


We’re back here on WallBuilders live. Thanks for staying with us. We’re talking about election results, not just presidential, you know, people don’t realize there’s still about eight congressional seats out there still being counted.

One of them finally finished just yesterday, and it’s a 6 vote margin, guys, actual US Congress race. It’s not a local city council or even a state rep race. I remember my race 20 votes out of 30,000.

This was 6 votes out of about, I think it was right under 400,000 votes, and the republican ended up winning there in Iowa. So that’s another Republican seat, folks, Republicans won all 27 of the toss ups, they flipped 13 seats. It just doesn’t make sense that the Republicans would have done so well across the board on congressional seats, and Biden still win. But nonetheless…


Well, and guys, this is another great example to of what difference does a vote make? Well, this could be the reality of what difference did one family going to vote make? Because a family of 6, that’s not totally unheard of in America, especially not if you were homeschooled or something like that, absolutely a family of six.

But I mean, realistically, probably in those 400,000 votes, there probably was a family of 6. And so this is something that we often underestimate the value in the power of a vote. And this situation, 6 votes determined who was going to be this congressional seat holder. That’s a really big deal with the power of the vote.



Let’s jump to Georgia, Georgia, they’re about to start another recount. And word came out that in preparing for the recount, they’re taking all of their voting machines and erasing all the memory banks and erasing all the data, erasing everything. And Linwood has filed a lawsuit there said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you don’t erase anything. We need that evidence to see if things were tilted or shifted or whatever.

And so he went to court and got an injunction and so as of today, they’re freezing and not erasing the voting machines in Georgia, saying keep the data in and see what’s there, see if there was anything fraudulent about went on. So that’s a change in Georgia, is that as they’re getting ready to start the next recount, they’ve got a freeze right now because they’re not going to clean their machines and do it all. They’re going to look and see if there was fraud that went in part of it.


Yeah. And David, actually, that Judge may have reversed the emergency order right after giving it frankly, 24 hours roughly. After given and I saw come through on my email, Epic Times had an article on this. The Judge apparently is reversing that order now saying the defendants aren’t in possession of the machines, there’s something crazy. So it’s chaos in Georgia, guys.


Yeah, this is how fast things are changing. From the time we start talking about it, you get a message says, no, wait a minute, that’s been changed. This is how fast stuff is changing right now. It’s wild, but there’s a lot still going on in Georgia.

Election Integrity Questioned


Yeah, guys, also in Georgia, over the weekend, Sidney Powell filed a lawsuit 104 page complaints, in there, there were 30 allegations related to the things from election integrity, recount irregularities, and deficiencies, mail-in ballot fraud, security hazards of Dominion voting systems. But there was 30 allegations made this hundred and four page complaint. And in it challenges more than 96,000 of the votes that were cast, arguing that at a minimum, 96,000 plus votes must be disregarded according to the suit.

And, so this is where I think we will continue to see in some of these States, different attorneys and law organizations bringing suits, and it will be very significant what happens with these. And in some of these, because of the testimonies that are there, in this, Sidney Powell has many, many witnesses with affidavits, experts’ statements from different kind of tech people, from different statisticians who are watching things, seeing problems with what’s going on. So it will be interesting to see this unfold. But that also was just filed over the weekend.


And let’s make sure folks have the right expectations here. I mean, there is a chance that all of this does cause the Supreme Court to intervene and Donald Trump still get elected. But even if that doesn’t happen, the most important thing here is what you’ve said along, Tim, is that the corruption is being uncovered, that there is light on all of this, and that going forward in our future elections, we’re going to have a better handle on these things. And State legislators all over the country are going to be tackling this issue in their elections committees and in their legislative bodies to make our elections more secure.

Will The Rule of Law Be Upheld?

So it’s uncovering a lot of that stuff, regardless of what the outcome is, and I still think there’s a decent chance in a decent path if the rule of law is upheld. But let’s just make sure everybody’s expectations are not disappointed at the end of the day, and think that we said all these things, we’re not saying definitely going to go one way or the other. But we’re saying all of what’s happening is actually a good thing.


Yeah. And understand too, that we’ve been saying all along, just because there’s smoke doesn’t mean there’s fire that can be proven. The smoke is coming from somewhere, and even the Pennsylvania legislature looked at said, yeah, it looks to us like there’s fraud. Well, that’s a different standard to prove in a court of law, even the Third Circuit that said, hey, we’re not going to overturn the election. That was a Trump appointee and that was two George W. Bush appointees. That was three Republican appointed Judges that said, we’re not going to mess with the election.

So even if you know that it’s there, even if you can see all the smoke, doesn’t mean you can prove the fire in a court of law. And so that’s the other aspect that we may be convinced, and I think most of us are convinced that a lot of fraud happen. But proving that and getting a result on that, that’s a hard hurdle to climb. And by the way, Rick, you were involved in the legislature for a while, all the voting that went on here in Texas, for all the county voting, all the voting machines, everything else, all the voting officials, who funds that, who pays for that?

Who is Paying?


Well, it’s supposed to be taxpayers pay for it.


Yeah, it’s out of the State funds, right?


Yeah, that’s right, State funds or local county funds. But yeah, it’s paid for by the taxpayers.


Well, that’s what I thought. But now we’ve got a lawsuit filed and this pertains to Georgia, filed by the Thomas Moore Foundation [inaudible 23:55] project, I think Phil Kline, the former Attorney General of Kansas heads that, and it deals with a group called the Center for Tech and Civic Life. This is a group that is largely funded by Zuckerberg of Facebook, he and his wife Priscilla. And these guys have put hundreds of millions of dollars, the Center for Tech and Civic Life took hundreds of millions from Zuckerberg and they put it into funding election operations at the state and county level.

And that’s weird to me from the very start, because they’re not supposed to be outside funding for this. You want this to be completely neutral. You want the state to handle it. This is a state issue. But they went in to help fund 2,500 election offices across the country. Strange thing. They appeared to be in largely blue areas, like $6 million they put into Fulton County, Atlanta area, and…



I wonder why they would want more votes out of that area. I can’t imagine why.


Yeah, I wonder why they would want that. So I mean, this is a really strange thing that’s going. But these guys also paid ballot harvesters to come in, harvest the ballots and bring them to these areas. So a lot of the blue activity we’re seeing is the base of this. It now turns out, there’s outside groups like that of Zuckerberg that’s being funded to help do these kinds of things. And this is just crazy. This is a State responsibility for any county or state official to be taken outside money. I mean, that’s a real problem.


And combine that with Facebook’s efforts to silence one side of the debate throughout this campaign, and certainly, towards those last couple of months, even with all the COVID thing, I mean, just the way that they have literally control the narrative for millions of people and impacted those votes because of that, and even some left leaning Democrats have come out and said, this is bad for Google and Facebook to be able to manipulate the perception of the American people instead of them getting to hear both sides.

So there’s no doubt they had their favorites in these elections, and they wielded their influence in doing so. Out of time for today, folks, we’ll have more election results tomorrow. If you’d like to learn more, go to our website, especially on the heels of Thanksgiving, make sure you get the new book “The American Story”. It’s phenomenal. You get it at great, stories out of that to share with your family.

Decision 2020 – What’s Going On In Pennsylvania?

And make sure you tune in throughout this week. We’re going to keep you updated on the latest. There’s a lot going to happen this week in all of these election battles. Check us out at for more radio program information and that’s the place where you can make a contribution. We would certainly appreciate your support there.

We’re a listener-supported program, and your donation helps us speak truth louder and get it into more people’s hands so that they can be the catalyst in their communities for a restoration of biblical principles and constitutional principles. Thanks so much for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.