Foundations Of Freedom – The Call, The Swamp, And Trump: Did Trump have the authority to give a quid pro quo on the Ukrainian call? Is it possible to really drain the swamp? Tune in to find out the answers to these questions and more!
Air Date:Â 02/20/2020
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith and the Culture
Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution, most of our State and other United States assert that all power is inherent in the people, that they may exercise it by themselves, that is their right and duty to be at all times armed, and that they’re entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of press.”
Welcome the intersection of faith and the culture, it’s WallBuilders Live. We’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy and faith, other areas of the culture, but always looking at those things from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective, especially today, Foundations of Freedom Thursday, it’s a great time to dive into those foundational principles with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also with Tim Barton, national speaker and past and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach.
You can find out more about us all at wallbuilderslive.com. That’s our website, where you can get links to the archives over the last few weeks, you can also get lists of our radio stations across the country where we can be heard. And now you might want to share some of those links. You know you like a program, share it with your friends and family, help get them educated and inspired and equipped to make a difference in the culture, to be good citizens to be salt and light and help restore our constitutional republic and pass it intact to the next generation.
Foundations of Freedom
And there’s one specific thing I’d ask you to do before we dive into the questions on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday, and that is go to wallbuilderslive.com and consider making that one-time or monthly contribution. It makes this program possible and it helps us to do all those things I’ve already mentioned, in terms of equipping and inspiring people, to train legislators and young leaders and pastors and all the other folks that we work with and you get to be a part of that when you go to wallbuilderslive.com and make that contribution.
Alright guys, before we get into some of the questions from today, we got several we’re going to try to dive into. We’ve actually got one that”s not question but sort of a statement. And I love the subject line. Thank you for re-teaching Law School, which actually that’s how I felt when I got to know David and WallBuilders and got to know the truth. Anyway, here’s what the email says. “I wanted to thank everyone, David, Rick and Tim, especially for presenting this information on a daily podcast.” You know all”¦
Wait a minute. What they say Tim, especially?
I don’t know, I was wondering that myself.
This is why I thought we needed to read this one today. I just wanted you guys to know that somebody, this is probably the only person, actually I don’t know who this is yet, maybe it’s my wife. But somebody appreciates me, so let’s just let’s keep going. This is great.
Learning False Information
You know, I was thinking the youngest, the best looking, the best shot, whatever, anyway, for some reason, they especially liked Tim. But here we go. “For presenting this information on a daily podcast you all always frame it for the regular patriot to learn. But I was near the top of my class in law school and none of it is redundant for me. Not only did I never learned these facts, I learned false information. But between the WallBuilders and Ben Shapiro podcast, I am unlearning and relearning my JD the right way.” That’s a Doctor of Jurisprudence out there, folks. Anyway, he says, “No wonder common law was so hard.”
That’s constitution law class. I remember that being boring, myself. “If they told me it was all political and made it up, it would have been so much easier to understand. Now I’m explaining con law to impromptu crowds of students next to me at the March for Life. Thank you deeply. My husband has an MBA and we often lament that in the 16 years of college between us, we never once learned the basic history. No wonder the elites are also liberal.
So, I try to pump as much of the show into him as he has time to over here at breakfast each morning. Thanks to WallBuilders, our children will not have this same knowledge gap. I used to tell people not to go to law school or send their kids or they come out socialist and broke. But armed with your new optimistic approach to working the system for the good of conservatives, that is changing. God bless you all. You’ll continue to get our support for years from donations to Front Sight trips to Founders Bibles to my new inspiration to become a constitution coach. Cheers and blessings from your most loyal Texas ex-pats in Kansas.” So they’re in Kansas, but they’re from Texas. That’s where all that wisdom comes from.
Bad Information in Law School
David, Tim, I got to tell you, this email actually mirrors my experience. I mean, I went to law school in University of Texas. But when I started listening to you guys and getting a chance to be in that library and getting those original documents, as she said, unlearned, I mean, it got rid of all the bad information running the good information. So just so thankful for this email and that good news out there. And this is happening to thousands of folks across the country that are listening as well. So actually, I want to take that thank you and shift it, yes, Tim, especially of course, because she singled you out, Tim. But David, man, I’m so thankful that God spoke to you 30 years ago and that you started WallBuilders and that you brought this truth back to folks.
Yeah, it’s a good deal and I love the fact that as she points out. You know, we really do build this for the average patriots, the average citizen. This is not difficult stuff. You do not have to have a JD or con law class to understand the Constitution, the way it’s written and what the founders did with it, the way it’s been applied in history. That’s all easy stuff that every single citizen can get and that’s been our objective. Is to demystify some of this stuff and bring it down to word that it does have daily application. And it sounds like that that’s working, sounds like people are understanding that, so we really appreciate that.
Demystifying and Fun
And not only demystify it and make it fun. You know, I mean, we’ve talked on the program about how most people and certainly, my experience in history class or government class was boring. But what you what you did that was unique and I think others are now you know, modeling is that you tell history through the eyes of the people that experience, you bring it to life, you make it fun and exciting and that causes people to pay attention. We’re in an entertainment age if we can’t grab their attention in them, you know, stay with us for the story, then it doesn’t do any good. So I just think that’s been a unique gift that God gave you and has been passed on hopefully to Tim and to me and a whole bunch of other folks that take your materials and share them with others. So what a blessing. Great email. Thank you Texas, I love the Texas expats living in Kansas. That’s like a mission field, right? Texans going into other parts of the country to share the good news.
Alright, guys, we went on too long here. We’re going to take our first break. So stay with us, folks. We were back for that first question has to do with President Trump and legal authority or responsibility to even make that Ukraine call that there’s been so much about. Stay with us, folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live on Foundations of Freedom Thursday.
A Moment from American History
This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. With the upcoming elections, is an opportunity to change the direction of our nation for the better or the worse, to change the very future that our children will face. In previous generations, it was this concern for our children, which often guided our vote. In a sermon before the Connecticut legislature in 1803, the Reverend Matthias Burnett reminded us “To you voters and whose power it is to save or destroy your country, consider well the important trust which God has put into your hands. To God and posterity, you’re accountable for them. Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your father’s delivered to you.”
In this year’s elections for the sake of our children and the type of country that we will leave them, vote and vote wisely.
For more information on God’s hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1808REBUILD.
The Rightful Masters
Abraham Lincoln said. “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
We”re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on Foundation to Freedom Thursday. First question to [inaudible 07:36] to David and Tim is about the Ukraine call that took place. Because [inaudible 07:39] says, “Did President Trump have the legal authority and/or responsibility to ask a foreign country to look into a US citizens involvement in previous government issues, in other words, the hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Ukraine prosecutor and whether or not to give more money or aid to that country based on whether that correct had stops.” Great question. Is this within President Trump’s article to authority in the Constitution, guys?
Well, before we even answer that, let me ask a political question that kind of deals with this because this was the basis the impeachment charges and the exoneration that didn’t and I say exoneration in the sense they didn’t get enough votes to impeach. So he is now cleared as not guilty, but the impeachment is still there. So they went after him because they said he’s checking into Joe Biden for the presidential race. So let”s”¦
Which clearly is not a problem.
Which is not a problem, no, that’s right. Exactly. But let’s say it had gone the other direction. I don’t know if Mike Pence has a son or not. But we’re going to play for scenario that Mike Pence has a son. Say the democrats found out that Mike Pence, his son is over in Ukraine and is using American government dollars and is using them by the billions and corruption is going on over there.
What if Trump Didn”t Ask?
And let’s say that President Trump did not intervene and did not ask the question, so he asked the Ukrainian president. If it had been a Republican, he had not asked the questions, do you think Congress would have come after him and tried to impeach him for not asking questions that Ukrainian President? And I think the answer is absolutely, yes. If it had been a republican doing the same thing and Trump had turned his head, I think they would have said, that’s an impeachable offense. So I think first thing is this is not so much a constitutional questions, this is political question.
And to the point of political question. I do think we live in such a polarized time that it would depend on who’s in charge of Congress as to whether that impeachment went through. Right?
Because even if it was republicans in charge, although historically, when impeachment had taken place, several of them have included republicans impeaching a republican president because they had the character and integrity to go, no, what you’re doing we don’t like, we think it’s wrong. We think it’s unconstitutional. In this day and age, I mean, right. Nancy Pelosi, her kids get paid a lot of money for, you know, what level of benefit they provide, I don’t know.
How do people become almost billionaires on $141,000 a year salary?
Yeah, when anybody it”s true with Chuck Schumer, right? If Mitt Romney, there’s a lot of elected officials, former government, current government and their kids are making a lot of money. So this has kind of become a way of life for many in those high up positions.
Joe Biden”s Son
So it’s not unusual in that sense that Joe Biden’s son gets a really cushy job, gets paid ridiculous amounts of money in a field he was never involved and has no educational background and has no formal training in, but getting paid all kinds of money. So nonetheless, you’re right. Politically, I think if the democrats were in charge or republican did this or republican in charge, the democrat does it, for sure, they’re going to crucify whatever side because it is very political at this point.
And Tim, you, you know, you point out that it’s been going on and in both parties and different. I mean, that’s part of the cynicism in the country. That’s part of why everybody, you know, was so thrilled that an outsider like Trump got elected, is you just start to feel like it’s going on everywhere.
That’s exactly why Trump got elected. Because people are recognizing how much the swamp has not just infected one party, no. This isn’t. And really, I mean, people that have been there very long, they’ve been impacted and affected by this swamp. And although we have some very good friends that are up there and we would say they’re people of character, generally people of faith, they’re in the very small minority when it comes to people that have not been touched by some of this power, some of this wealth, greed, whatever the case is. This is just kind of the way Washington has been for a long time and that’s exactly why Trump got elected.
A Constitutional Responsibility
Now, if you take this from a different perspective, ignore the political side. Is there a constitutional responsibility for presidents to say, you know what, the US Congress gave you billions of dollars, I have a moral and constitutional responsibility to make sure that that is used the way it was intended and directed.
Well, and on top of this, right, I mean, I think that what we’re ultimately leading to is the quid pro quo. And I had a discussion with somebody just in the last couple of weeks and they were saying now, wait a second, he really did do this quid pro quo. When I say now, let’s understand some context here. Because what if, let’s say we were giving money to, right, choose another nation, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia”¦
“¦Right. But let’s say that is a nation where there is known terrorism and we know the government is funding terrorism, and we said, hey, we’re not going to give you the aid you need if you’re taking this aid and you’re doing terrorist activity with it, you’re going to have to stop your terrorism before we give you this. The quid pro quo is not a problem. In fact, we would say, that should be the case.
You shouldn’t give money”¦
“¦if you know, they’re going to use it for good purposes. So it actually, the problem is not the quid pro quo, the problem is what that quid pro quo was about.
A Quid Pro Quo
And right, I mean, even Trump, both sides have said it really wasn’t what people have said it was, whatever. But let’s just for the sake of discussion, okay, now, let’s say it was a quid pro quo, which again, that’s not what either side says it was”¦
That”s not what the Senate found anyway.
Well, that’s not what either side says it was as far as either side of the phone call, right? It’s not what the Ukrainian leader or Trump says, either start a phone call. They don’t say what it was. But even if it was, the only reason that would be a problem is if the quid pro quo was, hey, I’m not going to give you this money unless you destroy my political rival. But that’s not even the phone call was about.
Trump said, right, he ran on this kind of platform of draining the swamp, which interestingly, the new Ukrainian leader ran on a platform of ridding corruption. And Trump says, hey, I know there’s been a lot of corruption. I’ve heard about corruption. Because Rudy Giuliani was over there, digging into a lot of stuff. He says, I’ve heard about some corruption, Burisma, you know, Hunter Biden, you might need to check in, as you’re looking at corruption, you might need to check into this, that might be important for you. That is not at all related.
Destroy a Political Rival?
Because at that point, Joe Biden hadn’t even announced, right, anything of a presidential run. So there’s no knowledge that he could be a presidential candidate. So the idea of the quid pro quo was to destroy political rival, at this point, Joe Biden is not a political rival, he’s not running for office. And Trump ran to get rid of corruption, this guy ran to get rid of corruption. So the whole thing in context is not at all what people think it is. And even the idea of quid pro quo is not unconstitutional. It’s just how it’s used.
That’s right. One of the things I’ll throw out, Tim, you mentioned they kind of drain the swamp there. About six years ago, I was asked to go to Ukraine, they were wanting to write a new constitution. So I went there, spoke to their legislators, parliamentarian, spoke to their religious leaders, spoke at law schools, government schools, etc. I just last week, accept an invitation to go back to Ukraine and do it again, because they’ve had more than 80% of the members of their Parliament replaced in the recent election. So that is draining the swamp. I mean, taken 80% change thereabouts. And so I’m back again with a different group of leaders, but that is part of draining the swamp. And Tim, you’re exactly right. That’s why Trump is elected here. That’s what was going on there.
At the time they brought me six years ago, they were trying to figure out how to handle the corruption then and do you have suggestions on how to handle corruption. And I had suggestions and they didn’t really like it, because they had American missionaries.
Should the Church Get Involved?
And I say that because the thing I said was, guys, you’re 90% Christian nation, if your churches will absolutely get your voters educated and not elect corrupt leaders, then you won’t have corruption. They said, yeah, but we’re Christians, we’re not supposed to get involved in government. I said, where’d you hear that? American missionaries. Thanks a lot America.
So even though they’re 90% Christian nation, 90% professing Christian, they openly call themselves a Christian nation, the church has been very reticent to get involved in stopping corruption over there. So the people said, okay, if the church, well, we’ll just throw out 80% of the bumps and do it ourselves. So we’ll see if the church will step up and take some moral authority and moral responsibility there. But Tim, you’re exactly right. They had a massive sea change in the Ukraine. And this is really one anti-corruption leader speaking to another anti-corruption leader about hey, you might want to know some corruption going on in your nation.
As we’re heading to break, I was thinking one more, Tim, one more example of where the quid pro quo would have been wrong. And that was if Donald Trump Jr. had a business thing going on in Ukraine and he was making, you know, million bucks a year being on the board of some company and we’re saying, hey, get rid of the prosecutor that’s investigating my son’s company because I don”t want that.
Oh, yeah, you definitely. You should never do that. That’s totally wrong. That’s actually”¦
But that”s what Trump did. Right? Didn’t Trump do that? No.
No, somebody else.
Bring a Speaker to Your Area!
Did somebody else do that?
You know… let’s think about it, see if we can figure out who that was.
Yeah, we might come up with the answer. But maybe folks at home could send in an email, help us out with this. Seems like some public official from the US did something like that. Quick break, we’ll be right back. We got a few more questions, a lot more questions. We’re not going to get to all of them today. But you can send them in email@example.com and we’ll hopefully get to it next week. We’ll be right back, folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live on Foundation of Freedom Thursday.
Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard the wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, about all the things that makes America exceptional. And you might be thinking as incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group, whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school or public school or some political event or activity.
If you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.wallbuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. And if you’ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers BIOS to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties and freedoms, go to the WallBuilders website and bring a speaker to your area.
Greatest Political Priviledge
President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realized that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever according to the human race.”
We”re back on WallBuilders Live, Foundation to freedom Thursday today and we’re going to get to more of your questions, but I’m just wondering how we did on the break. Did anybody come up with the answer to this question? Is there a public official out there that had a son making millions of dollars in Ukraine and held up a billion dollars for Ukraine until the prosecution stopped investigating?
Whoever it was, for sure, is a lying dog face pony soldier.
We aren”t accusing others of being lying dog face pony”¦ I”ve never heard that expression before Joe Biden.
There”s some connection to lying dog face pony soldier and funding in Ukraine and son company corruption. I’ll work on it.
And anybody who doesn’t know, just Google it and it would come up instantly and it is a little clip with Vice President Biden, a presidential candidate making that statement in a town hall kind of meeting. So it’s a, yeah, but that’s a viral one.
And Rick, to your point, right, Joe Biden was the one that did that. Which seems incredibly ironic that he is criticizing Trump, for he says Trump tried to do the thing that he actually did. So, even Trump didn”t even do it.
And that”s an impeachable offense if you try and don’t do it. I guess that”s the problem.
Drain the Swamp
Yeah, I mean Trump didn”t even do it, right, on the level that he’s talking about. Anyway, it really, really silly. And this again goes back to the whole drain the swamp idea because there’s so much corruption, so many problems with elected officials, really many on both sides of the aisle. But we have very limited time for another question.
Here it is and it’s right along those lines. “Is there a way Congress can get rid of the swamp creatures like Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, AOC, etc? Why can they not clean up their act? Americans are sick of the Democrat Party.” I think that question actually represents a lot of people out there. You’re frustrated with what they’re watching. Why can’t we drain the swamp or can we?
Well, and Rick, it’s significant the way the question was worded. Is can’t Congress do something that drain the swamp? Congress can’t do anything to drain the swamp because they are the swamp. And this is where so often we look at the national level for a solution instead of recognizing the best solutions lie at the local level and we are the ones responsible for draining the swamp. We have to elect the right kind of people who will go in and not do the games that are played, right. Not joining the kind of the quid pro quo, is what everybody does. We do it this way, you get this out of it. And so this is something I would say the answer lies really with, we the people, we have to be the ones to do that. Which means we also have to be the ones engaging in voting and the process.
Educated to Understand
And unfortunately, even though right now everybody is frustrated with the process, right, both sides of the aisle, Democrat, Republican, you pick a party, everybody is frustrated. The problem is, most people aren’t educated enough to understand how the process works, so they keep voting for the same people hoping to get different results. And that is right borderline definition of insanity. You can’t keep doing the same thing and think it’s going to change. So we have to be the ones helping find different people, people that have a different set of values and we would say certainly a biblical set of values, a constitutional set of values. And we have to help get them running for office, get them elected because only once we get different individuals in Congress will Congress ever change?
Yeah, I would even go a little further than that and say, yeah, Tim is exactly right, if you want to get rid of the swamp creatures, is called elections. But the statement is Americans are sick of the Democratic Party. Is there a way to get rid of Pelosi and Schumer and Schiff and [inaudible 21:15]? Okay. If they’re sick of the Democratic Party, why is that the last election they sent two dozen republicans home and gave the house to Nancy Pelosi? If they are sick of the Democratic Party, then why didn’t that show up in elections? Because they’re not. Why is it that Pelosi gets reelected every single session? Because the people who send her, they’re like her. Why did they keep making her the Speaker of the House? Because the democrats who are sent by the people like Pelosi.
Plug in the Bathtub
So this is not a drain the swamp kind of stuff. This is, we have in our hand, the ability to pull the plug in the bathtub and drain the swamp. But until we do that and I think the characterization is wrong and saying that Americans hate the Democrats, they don’t, they just put the Democratic Party in charge. Now, maybe it’ll change this election, but that’s how you drain the swamp.
And I don’t think it’s far-fetched to say that Americans hate what’s going on. Right. They are frustrated. They hate it. But again, the problem is they don’t understand that when you keep electing the same people, you keep getting the same issue, same problem, same drama, same results. And even though the majority of America might not like Pelosi, it doesn’t matter if the majority of America does or doesn’t like her, it matters to the people in her districts like her or don’t like her. If you don’t want to see her in power anymore, the way to get her out of power, is we have to get more Republicans that are elected to the Congress and Democrats elected to Congress.
And this is where there’s a lot of people within those right now in states where some of those are kind of swing either way, right? As we’re looking at elections coming up this year, there will be a lot of opportunities for some challenges or maybe some really good people that are in Congress that are going to be challenged, that your vote is going to make a difference which direction our nation, our Congress is going to go. If we want to see it changed again, we have to be the ones to bring part of that change about.
Take Back the Speaker”s Seat
Yeah. And what happened last election, out of 435 congressional seats across the nation, there were two dozen seats where the people said, you know, we’ve had Republicans, we want Democrats instead and that’s what gave Nancy Pelosi the speakership is because across the nation, there were districts. Well, if people don’t like that, then they’ve got 435 shots to make a difference this time. Everybody is got a district and they can say, you know what, we’re going to take those 24 we put in last time and take it back and give back to the Republicans, they did a better job than Pelosi did. Or they’re going to choose another 24 districts and say, we’re going to throw Democrats out there and put republicans or whatever it is. But this goes back to the voters.
And here’s the final thing I’ll say as we wrap this thing up. Is, look, in any presidential election, when you look at the actual total of adults at vote, 67% of Americans are registered to vote one-third or not. So out of 330 million Americans, those that are adults and can vote, about 271 million. So you’re taking essentially 180 million voters, is all that”s registered to vote. So out of that, you’re going to get about 60% that vote in the election. So you’re going to be looking at about 110 million people that vote in the election. And of that, it’s going to take about 55 million to win the election.
So you’re essentially talking about 55 million will choose the next presidential candidate out of 330 million in the country. You’re talking about one-sixth of the country will choose the president.
Common Sense Must Prevail
And that’s only, you know, we’re under 20% of the people, that’s one out of five people. So what has to happen is people have to turn out at a higher rate than we’re used to. And if good average common sense people don’t turn out this election, don’t vote for president, don’t vote to clean Congress up, we’re going to keep seeing what we’ve seen for the last several years. So this really is in our hands. And if we get conservatives and Christians turned out at a higher rate, it will make a difference.
It”ll make a huge difference. And part of how you can make that happen and you can be a force multiplier, right there in your community is to take this program you heard today and share it with your friends and family, not only this program, but some of our other WallBuilders Live programs. You can do that at our website today at wallbuilderslive.com. Very easy to grab those links and share them on Facebook and all your social media tools. It’s also easy to just give people a heads up about the program. Where you can go to our Facebook page in fact, and share those posts that we typically do on a daily basis, not only about what our topic is on WallBuilders Live that day, but other areas of the culture.
Foundations Of Freedom – The Call, The Swamp, And Trump
And then if you really want to lead right there from your community, you can become one of our Constitution coaches. Do that today at constitutioncoach.com, it’s a great way to be involved. You can take the Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick green program and actually be the proctor in your community where you host classes. Let us do all the hard work on the videos, but you get the people in the room, you enjoy the fellowship together and you become that force multiplier, educating people in your community to make a difference and help restore America’s constitutional republic.
Be sure to visit wallbuilderslive.com today, not only to share those programs and those links, but also to make that one time or monthly contribution. It takes dollars, it does. You know, we’re in a culture war and to win a war, you got to have finances. And right now, the war is about words and it’s about persuasion and it’s about influencing not only the new generation coming up, but the current generation in teaching people these principles, teaching them how to vote those principles, not only to have a biblical worldview, but to act on that biblical worldview and make a difference in the elections and make a difference in the education in the community. You get to be a part of all that by going to wallbuilderslive.com today.
Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.
Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”