Unconstitutional Executive Orders, Detainees, And More – Foundations Of Freedom: It’s time for us to answer your questions again today. Tune in to hear how to respond to unconstitutional executive orders, such as Obama’s which expanded DACA. Also, we discuss the idea that the Constitution is a “living document,” as well as citizenship.
Air Date: 04/02/20120
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Jonathan Richie
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Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith and the Culture
President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think they’re not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”
Welcome to WallBuilders Live, the intersection of faith and the culture, always looking at the big question to the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And sometimes, you know, what topics do you cover? How do we pick which topics when there’s so many things to discuss in this arena? Well, we let you choose today. It’s Thursday, so we call that Foundations of Freedom Thursday around here on WallBuilders, give you a chance to send in questions, email them to [email protected]. That’s [email protected] and we will dive into the answers and research and look at what the Constitution says about, the Bible and what history can teach us about those things.
Who We Are
My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. I’m here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Jonathan Richie is going to be helping us answer these today. So, David, here’s our first one. It’s actually about Obama’s unconstitutional DACA orders. So, we’re going back to an executive order that we talked a lot about on the program. This question comes from Joe.
He said, “Dear Rick, I love you, man, but you’re too smart.” This guy’s delusional. He said, he asked David good questions, but you overlook questions.” Then not so smart, people are thinking. As an example, David said that Obama’s DACA Executive Order was unconstitutional. You asked good follow up questions. But one question I kept thinking was, does anyone have to follow that order? And what should Congress or the people have done?” So actually, let’s see this from Joe. That’s a great question. And I’m going to try to think about those questions I’m missing. But that’s so true. So, guys, if a president gives an executive order that’s unconstitutional, what do the rest of us do?
Unconstitutional Executive Orders
Well, let’s go back for a minute and kind of review what the setup was for this program. So, Rick, going back, we were looking at really executive orders, what makes them constitutional. We’re talking about how the Trump’s have been particularly constitutional. And then we gave examples to others that were not. And just to kind of put the framework to that again, the Office of the President is to execute the laws of the land. He does not make the laws, he does not make the policy, he executes the laws that are out there.
So, if you look back to the executive order Trump did just a few weeks ago on school prayer, he did not suddenly say, hey, school prayer is legal, everybody can pray, I don’t care what the Supreme Court said, you can all pray. What he did was he went back and said, look, these are the laws that have been passed. These are the decisions of the Supreme Court. And here’s nine different areas where that you can have prayer in schools. here’s how you do it. As Constitution said, he’s taking care to faithfully execute the laws of the land. And that’s why I’ve been so impressed with Trump, because he’s not out there with a phone and a pen doing exactly what Obama did. And so, the Obama DACA order, which was kind of they call it the Dream Act.
Obama And His Pen
Obama made really a law, he claimed it was a law anyway. By his pen where he said, here’s what’s going to happen. All young people that come to the United States as illegal immigrants, here’s what we’re going to do: we’re going to accept. And he went through and just made policies if he had taken through Congress and pass an immigration law. That’s an unconstitutional Executive Order. That is not…
One guy, one guy making law for a whole country.
And I was talking to a US Senator this morning. And this morning, we were talking about a resolution. And, you know, I deal with State legislators a lot. Rick, you were in the State legislature. And I was really kind of unclear how Congress would handle even a resolution. Now, resolutions not binding. It’s kind of like an announcement of something. So, in some States, a single legislator can get a resolution passed. Like I’ve had resolutions passed the State legislature commending me. Well, you couldn’t get that done in the Congress, because you have to run it all the way through the House and the Senate and committee hearings and everything. And so, I just wasn’t sure how it happened.
Obama’s Unconstitutional National Policy
You know, so if you get an individual legislator who wants to say, alright, Barton is an okay guy. There’s no way that’s going to go through the US Congress. There’s no way the democrats will agree to that. There’s no way they’re going to get that to Committee hearings. So, I was really checking on that.
So, Rick, going back to what you just said, what Obama did was without introducing a bill in the House or the Senate without going through any committees, without going through any hearings, without facing any opposition party, whether it be Republican or Democrat, without having to answer anything. He just wrote out orders that here’s the new national policy. So, that’s what’s happened.
So, Joe’s question was, what do you do with stuff like that? Well, I’m going to go back to a quote from John Jay. This is a quote we really like, we teach this a lot in the leadership training program. And I think this gives the answer to what you do with unconstitutional Executive Orders. Now, it’s going to assume a lot that does not exist, but here’s the standard. This is John Jay, the original Chief Justice, the US Supreme Court and author of the Federalist Papers. He says, “Every member of the state diligently to read and study the Constitution of this country and to teach the rising generation to be free.
Awareness is Key
By knowing their rights, they will sooner perceive when they’re violated and be the better prepared to defend and assert them.” Now, the seven verbs in there. He said, are you need to read the Constitution, study the Constitution, teach the Constitution, know your rights, perceive when they’re violated, then defend your rights and assert your rights. So those seven things, that’s the answer to DACA. So, let me take you through John Jay.
So, the first thing you would do when you get an unconstitutional order, is you have to know that happens, like reading the Constitution, you have to know what’s in it. You have to know that the order happened. I’ll bet you, most Americans never heard that order came down from Trump on school prayer or from Obama on the DREAM Act, the DACA. Then second, you have to know what it’s talking about. So, you read and study the constitution of the country. Third, you got to know what the Constitution says to even know what this unconstitutional. Fourth is, once you know this unconstitutional, fifth, is you have to defend and assert.
John Jay’s List
So, you go through that list that John Jay gave. As you go down, as you say, okay, I just saw that an executive order was issued. Now, most people don’t keep up with that. They cannot tell you what an executive order even is and when the last one was that Trump issued, but once you do it, then you have to read it. And once you read it, you have to analyze it on the basis of not what you want or don’t want, but on the basis of what does the Constitution say. Oh, wait, man, the President just tried to make a law, that’s clearly unconstitutional. I don’t care what the topic is.
Now, if he wants to come in and do something with the military, he is the commander in chief, he can do that as long as it doesn’t intrude on what Congress’s role the military is. So, you have to know that. Then at that point, you have to recognize whether it’s constitutional or unconstitutional and you have to stand and rise and then defend and assert. So that’s, I mean, it sounds like maybe it’s an oversimplification of the question, but that’s what you have to do.
It’s so similar to so many answers to our questions. It starts with us as citizens. We got to accept responsibility, not just, you know, complain about what the President is doing or Congress or local authorities, but actually taking the time to study and know, like you said, you got to first know, how does the system actually work? It’s interesting that, you know, that John Jay put it that way that we have to know it first before we even recognize that something is unconstitutional. And then we got another proper way to stand up and defend and assert it. So, the duty is on us.
So, what does that look like to properly defend assert it? Taking specifically the DACA, would that be trying to go at it through the courts? Like, what would be the governmental response to an unconstitutional Executive Order? Do you sue or what happens? How do you actually defend it, though?
That’s a great question, Jonathan, because today, probably we would say, hey, the courts have to settle this and that would not have been the response in previous ages. In previous generations, Congress would have said, oh, you just got into our domain, we’re defending our domain.
The Federalist Papers
The Federalist Paper says, every branch has constitutional tools of self-defense. Congress would have shut it down and said you will not get a single penny of any money to enforce this. You decreed it, but you’re just talking in the wind because we’re not going to give you a single penny. So, but that all assumes that Congress reads the Constitution and knows Constitution. That’s a big assumption. Then the other thing is that people would have stood up and said, I can’t believe the President just did this. Is he crazy! And so, the public outcry would have been enough to shout it down.
And so, if Congress had not stood up, the public outcry would have driven Congress to stand up. And so, the assumption is, knowledge of the Constitution by somebody, the people, the public and the legislature. And that’s the way you could have stopped this thing, is shut it down.
So, for people like Joe, the appropriate defense would be one, to tell your friends about it, tell people about it and then two, get in contact with your representative and try to spur them into action.
Teach Your Friends
But you know, I would go even further, John… I’d say it’s not just tell your friends about it, you’re going to teach your friends about it. Because they won’t have a clue why that is constitutional or unconstitutional. You need to treat everyone on your social media as if they don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You need to do just a line or two of instruction.
Now, the reason this is unconstitutional, as president cannot make policy, he only executes the laws that are passed. So, you need to teach little simple principles along the way. And man, if every American who knew this was wrong were to get on their social media and say, hey, this is wrong and by the way, here’s why it’s wrong. You know what, here’s what we need to do. And if you take people by the hand and lead them through, you can educate them really quickly. Don’t assume they’re dummies, but just assume they’re uninformed and just give them a little bit of simple information. And, man, consider yourself a teacher. Because where we are in America today, you can’t assume that anybody knows what you know, you’re going to have to kind of teach what you know, to others. And that’s discipleship.
I am pretty smart.
Yeah, you get a lot you could teach.
Well, and the thing is, there’s so many different angles that can be taken, because that defending and asserting, sometimes is through our local authority. So, when the Attorney General’s, when you have a good Attorney General that is going to defend the Constitution, they’ll band together. And in this case, they did that and sued the federal government to stop it. So, it’s kind of you want to fire every bullet you got in the gun. Right? You take the legal route in terms of the lawsuits, but you also stand up and get your public officials that are in the Congress to stand up. I mean, all these different areas. But again, it begins with our own education and like you said, David, telling your friends but also educating them. Good reason to host a Constitution class or get a Sunday school class, it’s going.
The Rightful Masters
Go through our Foundations of Freedom, not just Thursdays, but go through the actual television program that we did where step by step, week after week, you can be teaching those principles to the people in your Sunday school class or in your living room. Lots of ways to get educated and actually put this stuff in motion. Hey, guys, overdue for a break, we’re going to take a quick break. We got lots more questions to get to. Stay with us, folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders live.
Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
Hey friends, this Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about, what in the world could we be studying at home right now you know I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school? Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Richie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.
You go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for a One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out [email protected].
Power is Inherent in the People
Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution of most of our States and the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty to be at all times armed that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of press.
Welcome back to WallBuilders live, it’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday today. If you’ve got some questions, send them in to [email protected]. The next one comes from Connie.
And he says, “My question is concerning the overwhelming number of detainees, if you will, in the facilities that are coming across the border seeking quote-unquote, asylum. Isn’t there a moral obligation for government to kind of violate the law and return these people to their home country?
When the conditions are so impossible to manage, is the government required to maintain the status quo that created the crisis?” I remember you discussing at one time that if a commander gave a soldier an order that was immoral, he had an obligation and not obey the order. I look forward to hearing your answer.
Thank you for everything. All your hard work is appreciated and I share regularly with people about what you provide.” Thank you, Connie for sharing. What a great life lesson. Everybody out there listening, take these links to these programs, share them on your social media tools.
What Should Be Done At the Border?
Alright, Jonathan, David, we’ve got, you know, I guess he’s kind of asking, look, at some point, we can’t handle this mass chaos at the border with all these people coming across. What should the folks down there be doing? Are there some laws that they should be ignoring?
Well, it’s really not laws they should be ignoring, they’re laws that should be enforced. If they weren’t forcing that, we wouldn’t have all this asylum stuff going on at the border. Because what’s happened over previous years, this stuff is really pretty clearly laid out. And through unconstitutional actions such as, Obama, just let everybody come across that wants to, you’ve sent a message to the world that our borders are wide open. And now that you start trying to enforce again, you get this clog up that’s going and so we’ve seen actually, in the last month or so two, pretty significant, I guess, two months, two pretty significant decisions come out of Supreme Court, that is limiting the way that the immigration laws have been interpreted to be so broad, Obama’s interpretation in other words.
So, coming back to saying… And by the way, one from just a couple weeks ago, the Supreme Court actually said, you know, and this was in Kansas, the States have a role in enforcing immigration laws. And the States have a responsibility to uphold laws that the federal government is not upholding. Now, that’s radical stuff. We haven’t seen that in a number of years, which means Texas can do some things.
Feds and the States
Because Kansas was trying to do things for the illegals in their own state. And since the Feds were not shutting the border down, since everybody was coming in at wanted to and you’ve got the California kind of sanctuary state kind of mentality, there was really nothing to help it. So, it’s really not so much that you would have to disobey laws. It’s that you start obeying the laws that are on the books. We have some decent immigration laws.
Now, we we’ve created problems by ignoring those laws that we now probably will have to pass more laws to deal with how do you deal with 20 million illegals in the country. You can’t just say, we’ll enforce the law. Well, no. They’re here and you got to do something with that.
So, you know the book we did called this Precarious Moment, there’s one of the six sections is on immigration. And it includes the kind of legislative proposals that you could actually do something with. So instead of having a Green Card, you would have a Yellow Card. That says, you know, I’ve been here illegally, but I want to come aboveboard. Now, I don’t want to be legal anymore, I want to be part of the system. Okay, but you came here illegally, so you really can’t become a citizen per se, but you can’t be legal. It’s kind of like a Green Card, except for many Green Card people you can go on to become a citizen. Well, if you got a Yellow Card is you still enjoy all the right to being here, but you don’t get to be a citizen.
This Precarious Moment
So, there are ways, because you don’t want to reward people who have broken the law. That’s not what you’re trying to do. So, there are all sorts of ideas out there and I would recommend people get this ‘Precarious Moment’ and look at what we do with the immigration stuff on it.
Now, the other thing that was raised was how about, you know, you mentioned once the commander gave a soldier an order, there was a moral obligation not to obey. That really is not the American system. America system, we tell our soldiers you obey what every commander tells you. And that’s a problem. What we were talking about with someone in Israel. In Israel, you have the right to disobey an order if you have a moral reason for doing so and if you can defend that reasoning.
So, in Israel, they don’t want you doing what Hitler said, hey, you guys just go through all these people in the camps that they want to use their own conscious. Now, that doesn’t mean that they have the right to make up any law they want and say, I don’t like this and I disagree. You got to have a really good reason. So that’s not what we do in America. We tell our law enforcement guys, you will follow the law. We tell our soldiers you will do it, your command officer says. But Israel has a very different approach to that.
And by the way, Israel also, Jonathan, I just got back from Israel in the past few days. And Israel, in the military, it’s interesting. If you have a command meeting of 10 guys that say, you know, Hamas or Hezbollah or something just bullet point villages, what are we going to do? And let’s say all 10 in the room agree on what the response is going to be, we’re talking to military leaders. One of those military leaders is a designated no sayer. He has to say, I disagree with you all. We should not do anything to… and he will raise the objection to everything to society, then they have to think through all the possibilities.
Because once everybody decides what they want to do, sometimes, they don’t think about the consequences downstream. So, in every military meeting in Israel, there’s a designated person to object to everything that goes on. You have to think about it, be able to defend it, know the other side.
And we just don’t give our people that latitude in United States. But I think what Israel does is really good. However, going back to what we do here, just enforcing the law would eliminate a whole lot of problems. You don’t need a DACA if you’re actually enforcing the laws. But, you know, again, President Obama wasn’t committed to enforcing the existing laws, he was committed to remaking them unilaterally through things like DACA and that’s what creates the problems we face now.
Alright, guys, short on time this segment, we’re going to take a quick break. We got time for one more question from our audience. And folks out there, if you’ve got a question about Constitution, about laws that are being enforced or not enforced right now, biblical perspective on all these things, send it into [email protected]. It’s Foundation of Freedom Thursday, we’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.
Greatest Political Privilege
President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realized that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever reported to the human race.”
An Important Book
Hi, this is David Barton. I want to let you know about a brand-new book we have out called, ‘This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your Family and Our Country. Jim, Garlow and I have co-authored this book. And we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now, issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration and race relations and our relationship with Israel and the rising generation millennials and the absence of the church and the culture wars and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provides solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.
These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So, you can grab the book, ‘This Precarious Moment’ and find out what you can do to make a difference. ‘This Precarious Moment’ is available at wallbuilders.com.
Questions of Power
Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down for mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Last question of the day comes from Zoey. Says, hey, WallBuilders, I first want to say how much I love what you guys do. I started listening to your show this summer. And I really enjoy how easy it is to be able to learn and get insight on history and current events.
My question is about how people regard the Constitution as a living document. Obviously, this is a progressive viewpoint, specifically tailored today as a way to be able to change the Constitution to fit what they want, like restrictions on types of speech or the abolition of guns. I’ve always considered the constitution as sort of a set-in stone document.
Open to amendment? Yes, but a brilliant still document. Many of the people my age who actually do care about politics, I’m 19 don’t see it that way. My question is what kind of argument or evidence could I present to show that the Constitution should be taken as it is originally or is a living constitution just an ideology, any progressive is going to automatically take?”
A Living Document?
Alright, guys a question from Zoey and by the way, Zoey, 19, and you’re asking these kind of questions and thinking like this, you belong at Patriot Academy and at the leadership training program, so your summer is booked. That’s it. Get online right now, go to wallbuilders.com, get signed up for the leadership training program. Go to patriotacademy.com, pick one of our Patriot Academies across the country and we’ll see you there. I love this. 19 year old asking this question, guys, go ahead.
It’s awesome. Yeah. So, you get it exactly right that the living Constitution idea is absolutely one of those progressive takes. To my knowledge, it really started developing in the early 1900s, right, you get the Woodrow Wilson era, where you start having these Oliver Window Holmes type guys who start taking…
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Oliver Wendell Holmes was a justice on the US Supreme Court. His father was poet.
Not related to Sherlock Holmes, totally different guy. But he starts taking the Constitution and being like, well, you know, it’s been so long since the founding fathers lived, we need to update this, modernize this. And that comes from a totally distorted perspective of thinking that principles somehow change over time. Right?
Technology changes, but principles don’t change. And you can go back and I would recommend getting our book, ‘Original Intent’. It’s absolutely great and addresses this specific issue of what is the original intent of the Constitution and how do we find that? Is that a valuable position to find and, you know, spoiler? It really is. And so that would be my suggestion. Get that book.
It’s got hundreds of footnotes, going back to the founding fathers early legal cases. Because the idea of constitutional originalism is definitely the one that would be considered the quote-unquote, orthodox position. And if you want to think like George Washington, if you want to maintain the American institutions as they were, originalism is the way to go. Right? We also have ironically titled, Constitution Alive. Which, right, is not a living document. But you know…
Yeah, that sounds like a living document. Jonathan, you’re right, because this is the other thing. This is the only way you get stability in the society of 330 million people. If you can decide what every law means for yourself, then how do you enforce any law?
You have to have a standard that means something universal across the board. And this is why absolute truth matters. That’s why constitutional intent matters. That’s why original intent matters. And by the way, you introduced you talked about progressive back rule, Woodrow Wilson, etc, one of the things that goes with progressive is since man is ever evolving and these are guys, they’re generally more secular in their thinking, even if they’re religious people, they’re secular thinking religious people.
And, as a result, God and absolute aren’t part of it. It’s not the 10 commandments, it’s the 10 suggestions. So, I don’t really like that command, it doesn’t fit with what I want, so I’m going to ignore it. And that’s what they are in the Constitution.
So, when you get to that point, it is very hard to have a stable nation, because everybody is their own king and rather than having uniform laws. You know, I know the speed limit says 55, but I really thought that it should have been 68. So, I’m just saying…
Please don’t talk about me like that.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there you go. You’re not an original intent guy. But you have to have thick standards. And the other problem with progressive is, since you’re ever evolving, one thing you never need to study is history. Because history is fixed, it’s about what’s in the past. We don’t care what’s in the past. We’re always moving forward, looking forward, leaning forward, as Obama said. So, history is one thing that will always go out the door with these guys. And that’s how you establish original intent. So, the whole progressive mentality is, get rid of history, get rid of morals, get rid of rights and wrongs, get rid of standards. Let’s make our own law.
What Enables Stability?
Let’s do our own thing. That is a terrible way to govern a nation especially when is supposed to be a nation built on constitutional principles of law. That’s what’s provided stability. Even if you disagree with what’s there, we’ve been stable longer than any other nation in the history of the world. And the more we get away from those standards, the less stable we become. So if you like not having revolutions every 17, 18, 20 years like other nations, and you got to have some fixed standards that everybody agrees on.
And one thing I think for Zoey, your fellow GenXers out there, I think would appeal to them and explaining this is look if you have this quote-unquote, living, breathing constitution, what that means is that just five unelected, unaccountable lawyers in Washington DC, meaning five of the nine Supreme Court Justices get to make law for the whole country. Because the whole reason they came up with this idea was so that they could make it wax in their hands, they could change the Constitution as they wish, instead of what the people wish.
If you on the other hand, have what you described as set in stone, but it is like the title of our Constitution Alive, meaning that that original language is still alive today, mean that document is real today and it applies today and it works today. Then to change it, you got to have the whole country on board and you got to go through that amendment process in Article 5. So, a living, breathing document means, it’s wax in the hands of just a handful of people that get to make law for America under that system. Whereas if you go back to that original intent of the Constitution, then it’s stable as David was saying.
Learn more about all of this in our Constitution Alive class. It’s a complete walk through the entire Constitution, we have multiple options available to you. You can take the 6-week course. That’s a little shorter and get you through those basics and really understand the basics of our freedoms and where they’re found in the Constitution. And then you can take the 10-week course and that’s a about twice as long in terms of videos and even more material but dives into even deeper topics of the Constitution and how to secure those freedoms individually.
Responding to Unconstitutional Executive Orders, Etc. – Foundations of Freedom
Either way, if you would like to do that course it’s available at constitutioncoach.com. You can become a constitution host or Constitution coach and actually have other people be a part of your class through our Zoom link ups and give you a chance to have some community right now while everybody is stuck at home, but also be studying the Constitution while you’re at it.
You can order the DVD set for your own personal library right there at wallbuilders.com. Just look up Constitution Alive and you can also get workbooks there as well for the classes that you’re hosting. Hope you’ll check that out and enjoy that good, good learning while you’re stuck at home right now during all of these quarantines. Thanks for listening so much. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.
Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our country and the freedom over civil constitution are worth defending against all hazards and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”