Unions And Your Rights — With Mark Mix: Have you heard about what happened to Southwest Airlines employee Charlene Carter? Should employees be forced to pay fees that support acts that violate their consciences? Should the federal government override state right-to-work laws? Should unions be focussing on the workplace or politics? How is out-of-touch Biden killing the economy with Unions? Tune in to hear Mark Mix explain a big win in a labor-law case!

Air Date: 08/02/2022

Guest: Mark Mix

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Hey, for Rick Green here, America’s Constitution coach and a former Texas legislator. Glad to be hosting WallBuilders Live with David and Tim Barton. Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and President of WallBuilders. Of course, David Barton is America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders.

You can learn more about all three of us at the website today wallbuilderslive.com. You know, I always start to program the intersection of faith and the culture. Now I know a lot of people say that today. There’s a lot of friends and people that have that in their program opening now. That’s wonderful. That’s great. We’ve been doing that for almost, wow, 17 years, I got to get my year straight. But that’s a long time. The point is that the program is dedicated to helping you take your faith and apply it to the culture.

So the intersection of faith and culture means that when we live our lives in the culture, we don’t leave our faith at the door, we don’t walk away from it. They literally intersect because everything in life is impacted by our worldview, is impacted by what our faith is. And you may say, well, I’m not a person of faith, I don’t actually belong to any particular religion. Well, you still have faith and something. You could be an atheist and you have faith in a certain worldview.

Now, fortunately for us, Christianity has been the dominant religion in America since the beginning. That’s why America became so successful. It was the Christian principles that were infused into the culture, it was biblical principles infused in the culture that produced such an amazing result. Because God’s not only right, it works best. When you follow biblical instruction, you get good outcomes.

And so the Founding Fathers of America knew that, they did that, and we are still living with the benefits of that today. What I would challenge you to do is say, how is my faith today affecting my culture? How is my faith affecting the culture of my family, the culture of my neighborhood, my state and my nation?

Everything is Addressed in the Bible

And if it’s not, then that means we’re not being salt and light. So that’s why we say welcome to the intersection of faith and culture, because we are making sure that our faith impacts the culture around us.

And we always take a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective to do that. That means we’re constantly looking into the Bible and saying, what does it say about these particular issues of the day? Because there’s not a single issue we’re facing today that isn’t addressed in the Bible. 

And you might say, well, Rick, you know, man, there weren’t space shuttles and space travel in the Bible. How can you say the Bible addresses those things? Because the Bible does address exploration. It does address things like travel and the basic principles that are still at play.

It does address things like sovereignty of nations and borders and all of those kind of things. How do you treat the soldier? Everything is addressed in the Bible. So that’s why we take a biblical, historical and constitutional approach here at WallBuilders Live as we’re applying our faith to the culture.

Alright, David and Tim, a little later in the program, Mark Mix, our friend from Right-to-Work will be with us. We’ve got a lot of cool events coming up this year. By the way, amazing summer: you guys had the Institute for the Young People, you had the teachers’ conference. You’re doing all these cool things over the American Journey Experience and given people a chance to come in and learn these things and then apply them to their lives. But you’re also doing this for pastors will be different from taking them to D.C.

An Incredible Collection


Yeah, and one of the things that we’re very excited about potentially for the future is being able to go back to Washington, D.C. It has been sad since January 6th with all of the nonsense that happened and now the possibly more ridiculous nonsense, the posturing by some of those in not Washington, D.C. and the politicians and what they’re trying to do with some of this and not releasing evidence, whatever, not to get on January 6th and all of that. However, because the Capitol has been closed down largely since January 6th, we’ve not been able to take pastors back to Washington, D.C.

But it occurred to us we’ve got this amazing collection on display over in the Dallas area and we’ve talked about for decades at WallBuilders, the incredible collection God’s allowed us to kind of amass in one location. And now we have partnered with Glenn Beck and with the nonprofit my dad and I both help run now over at Mercury One, which was the nonprofit Glenn Beck started.

But all that to say, there’s three different collections that now there’s a collaborative collection of some of the most unique and fun pieces of American history. And we thought, why don’t we just invite pastors to come here.

We actually have some congressmen and senators who are going to potentially be in town and be able to come and speak to the pastors in person. We’ll be able to Zoom in some other congressmen and senators. And the idea is to give pastors the perspective of the Christian foundation of America, to recognize the role that Christians and pastors played in in leading to America becoming America and the Declaration, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and inspiring the Founding Fathers and who influence the Founding Fathers on so many levels, and not just to see the Christian connection–

Truth Exists

But then, also to recognize that there are a lot of people in Washington, DC right now, both in the House and in the Senate that are fighting with these Christian values in mind and to help pastors see some of the connection of people were there, some who actually were in ministry at different capacities at their church, whether they be pastors or Bible study leaders or elders or deacons, whatever it was, some incredible men and women of God who are now serving in Washington, DC. And even though they’re definitely outnumbered, there are some really good ones there.

And this is a time that we are seeing more and more pastors awaken to the fact that Christians need to be engaged and involved in the process. And so this is something to encourage pastors along the way to give some ideas and guidance of what they can do, how they can get more involved.

And by getting more involved, part of it is from their pulpit where they need to be more specific and intentional about teaching biblical principles and biblical truth. We have a culture that is not sure truth even exists anymore, and the Bible gives very clear guidelines of things that are fundamentally and absolutely true.

The Founding Fathers recognized that without a Christian, a moral and religious foundation, the nation would not last, the Constitution would not remain. It was built on the notion there was a moral people and we can give freedom to those moral people. But if we’re not teaching the principles of morality, even from the church anymore, America won’t be able to stand. So a lot of things we’re going to do along the way. But we are very excited. That’s going to be in September 1st. People can go online.

Invite Your Pastor!

Now this is specifically for pastors and ministers. So it could be everybody from the worship minister, the youth pastor. If you are on staff at a church, even if you are the janitor at a church, if you’re on staff at a church, this is for churches. And really we’re targeting senior pastors. It’s a limited capacity because the facility we’re in and so we are trying to identify senior pastors first. 

But if you are in the ministry, if you’re a pastor or if you have a friend who’s a pastor and you want to encourage them to come and maybe even help sponsor them to be able to come, it’s a one day event. We’re going from 10am to 4 pm. Lunch will be provided. They’ll get to connect with lots of other pastors, connect with congressmen, with senators, hear from them, and then see firsthand some amazing artifacts and pieces of American history.

So go to wallbuilders.com, click on the ‘Initiative’ tab, scroll down to Pastor’s Briefing and they can sign up there. There’s no charge from us. They just got to be able to get themselves there. And again, that’s something that maybe if you’re listening and you’re not a pastor, maybe you can have a sponsor, your pastor, your associate pastor, youth pastor, whoever it might be. Help get them there so they can learn more about the Christian foundation of the nation and also what they can do to get involved to make a difference.


And just the fellowship, just the opportunity to be around other black or regiment type pastors across the country that are hungry for truth, willing to stand for truth. It’s just a great chance for them to say, well, I’m not the only pastor that’s been speaking on these things and cares about these things.

So, really, really powerful event. And that’s just one, right? I mean, Tim, they got this is the one date thing, they need to get this one, are they missing out?

Sign Up At WallBuilders.com


That is the only one this fall we normally do twice a year. We do the spring and we do the fall. But we’re prayerful that after this upcoming midterm election, that there might be a different Speaker of the House and maybe that Speaker of the House will decide that it’s okay for some American people to come back to what was used to be known as the people’s House, the Capitol Building. 

Maybe it’s okay for Americans to go back to the Capitol. And if that’s the case, then God-willing, in the spring, we will be back in Washington D.C., taking pastors through the Capitol, letting them meet congressmen and senators up there face to face in person.

But for the time being, this fall, there’s only one date and we’re gearing up for an election. And so if pastors are wanting to get some guidance, encouragement, Rick, as you mentioned, make some relational connections, it’s a great opportunity to do it. In September 1st 10am­-4pm in the Dallas area. You can sign up at wallbuilders.com, get more information. We certainly hope you are able to make it and we really want to see you September 1st.


I actually heard you say an even better reason to go right now is because if the Capitol does get opened up and from now on we’re going there, then you’re only going to see as many artifacts as David or Tim carry in their suitcase, which they usually take quite a few, but nothing like what’s at the American Journey Experience, where you’re going to go in there and it’s just, I mean, everywhere, overwhelming the number of documents and artifacts and all the other incredible things. So this is really a really cool opportunity. Check it out folks today, we’ll have links at wallbuilderslive.com to make it easy.


Alright, guys, we’re going to take a quick break. When we come back, we got Mark Mix with us. And guys, we’ve had him on before, right to work, very important issue. We all care very much about this one.

Because it’s free market and it’s making sure that you can’t be forced in your job to donate to unions and to basically fund a union that’s fighting against the things that you believe in. But there are some exceptions in federal law. And so Mark’s been involved in a lawsuit that went with a huge, huge victory against Southwest Airlines and their union. We’re going to learn about it from Mark today.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Founding Fathers, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson originally worked closely together but later became ardent opponents. This troubled Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration, who knew both of them very well.

In the Bible, 2 Corinthians 5:18 tells us that God has given each of us the ministry of reconciliation. Dr. Rush believes this and set out to bring the two back together. It took a while, but Adams and Jefferson once again became close friends. And looking back on his role in helping bring about this reconciliation, Dr. Rush stated, “It will give me pleasure as long as I live to reflect that I have been in any degree instrumental in effecting this reunion of two souls destined to be dear to each other and motivated with the same dispositions to serve their country, though in different ways.

For more information about Dr. Benjamin Rush and his other remarkable achievements, go to wallbuilders.com.


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. So good to have Mark Mix back with us. Mark, thanks for coming on the program again.


Rick, always a pleasure to be on with you. I love the work that you do and glad to be of importance to talk with you about some of the work we’re doing.

Welcome Mark Mix


Well, man, you all do incredible work. National Right to Work is such an important part of restoring American values, basically, in a free market. And I did not know that you were so involved with your legal foundation on some of these cases, specifically this Southwest Airlines flight attendance and a great, great victory out of this. So, man, tell us about the case. And also, just tell us more generally about the legal foundation and some of the other cases you guys are dealing with.


Yeah. Specifically, this was a great story and one that obviously is not going to get reported in the bigger mainstream media that has become so unreliable to talk about anything that doesn’t fit their paradigm and kind of their viewpoint. But here’s the deal.

We ended up representing a flight attendant for Southwest Airlines by the name of Charlene Carter, and she was hired on at Southwest in 1996. She was a 20+ year employee, never had any blemishes in her employment record at all. And in 2013, she was getting fed up with the union, the Transportation Workers Union, Local 556 down there in Dallas, Texas, that represented her and the flight attendants of Southwest Airlines because of just some things that were going on inside the union. And she exercised her right to withdraw her union membership.

Now, unfortunately, by withdrawing her union membership, she had to give up certain workplace rights in order to protect her ideological, religious, philosophical and financial rights. And that’s another issue for another day. But suffice to say that under the Railway Labor Act, which is the federal policy that kind of lays out the terms and conditions of the employment relationship between railroads and airlines and employees that work for them, she was required to pay fees in order to keep her job.


So this little disagreement between the hierarchy of the Union and her went on for years until finally in 2017, she found out that the Union and the Union president and several other employees of the Union were using her money to travel to Washington, D.C. to support the so-called Women’s March that was being patron by Planned Parenthood.

And Charlene is a strong Christian woman. She has very, very fundamental beliefs about her religious views. And, of course, abortion is one of those issues that comes up all the time when it comes to these types of debates and things that happen. And so, these Unions were…


Wait, Mark, let me just make sure I got this right. So she’s being forced to pay these fees in order to keep her job, and the fees coming out of her pocket, out of her paycheck are now going to support something that she has a very strong closely held religious belief against, so she’s really paying for something that really violates her conscience?


That’s exactly right. And so she raises the issue with the Union president. She sends private email messages to the Union president saying, hey, this is outrageous. You guys shouldn’t be using this money or my money or anybody else’s money who it differs. And they came up here and they marched in this parade with a Southwest logo on their banner and saying, you know, we support all these Women’s march and all of the issues that were being debated during that time in 2017.

And so as the private conversation, Charlene and the Union official continued, Union official finally got to the point where she went to Southwest Airlines and said, hey, you have got to fire. They demanded the firing of Charlene Carter. And of course, Southwest Airlines had a private meeting with her and about a week later, she lost her job.

And it had nothing to do with the workplace record. It had everything to do with the Unions because it was a fight between a so-called an employee who the Union represented and the Union officials that “represented her”.

Southwest Airlines

Southwest had no role in this at all until they went back to her Facebook feeds, some of the pictures on her Facebook account, you know, five or six years ago that showed her in uniform saying something that was totally unrelated to this conflict. And Southwest said this, we couldn’t have this And so she was fired.

So we start litigating the case, we worked with through the Fifth Circuit Court down in Dallas in Texas. And it finally gets to a point where the judge dismisses the summary judgments but the airline and the Union wanted to end the case. And it went to a jury. And, Rick, the jury listened to the facts is no opinion here. These are the facts of the case. They looked at it, they went into deliberation. They came back out with a $5.1 million judgment against the Union in Southwest Airlines violating Charlene’s rights. Yeah.


Wow! No kidding. So not only does she get made whole and justified, but this sends a signal to these Unions to do the right thing, not the wrong thing? I mean, this could have a ripple effect big time.


Yeah, absolutely, Rick. And thanks for mentioned that. That’s a really important part of this. Because when you look at it, say, well, okay, this is great.

But hopefully, hopefully, what this verdict does is it when a jury of her peers looks at how the Union is managing their privilege and power over individual workers and then using their money to your point earlier, that the Union may have to pull in ranks a little bit and decide that, you know what, we probably should focus more on the workplace than on politics and all these other things that are unrelated to the events that occur in the workplaces across America.

Moving Forward

And frankly, hopefully, maybe some corporations who are supporting a lot of this agenda across the country will look at it and say, why in the world did we do this? Why don’t we just stick to flying people from point A to point B and doing that really, really, really well with people that have great employment records and love their work and love their jobs? Why don’t we do that?


Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding. I got to tell you, I mean, I can’t imagine Herb Kelleher is not rooting you on here. Because I mean, the rebel airline supposed to be a place of freedom, is supposed to be a place of joy, and everybody can have their own opinions and not be fired for it or punished for it at work and the idea of forcing employees to donate to causes and fund causes that they disagree with from an airline based in Texas. I mean, come on, Mark, this offensive to me as a Texan.


Yeah, exactly. And Texas has a right to work law, where workers can basically say, I’m not going to support you at all financially because of the right to work protections. But unfortunately, the Railway Labor Act, which is the federal law that dictates the conditions and the rules and regulations for employees in the railroad industry and the airline industry preempts Texas right to work law. So the federal government comes in and once again puts their thumb on the scale in favor of Union coercion and Union force.

And unfortunately, to your point, I mean, this this had nothing to do with Southwest Airlines until the Union demanded should be fired. And I think Southwest chose poorly here. Herb Kelleher and the beginning, I mean the fun that was part of the branding of the entire airline’s founding and operations for those early years was we love to fly them. And LUV, love to fly them, right? Isn’t that what I’m supposed to say LUV, I love to fly?

Free Legal Aid


Oh, it’s so true, man. Oh, well, thankfully, maybe you’re pushed back to those roots by winning this lawsuit. Before I let you go, though, any other cases that you got going or any states where you got a real battle on the right to work issue right now?


Yeah, we do. Obviously, our little foundation that’s been around since 1968, we’ve got 22 staff attorneys. We do nothing but support and help individual employees who want to exercise their rights in the workplace. And a lot of times, Rick, it runs into these issues, these cultural, social, personal, religious issues that are so relevant. They just come right to the forefront when you think of a union spending your money to support things you oppose.

And so we have a couple of cases out in the Ninth Circuit in California that are similarly situated. It probably doesn’t have as much of the energy as the Charlene Carter case because of the nature of how this all came down.

But yeah, we have a lot of those. In any given time, we’re running about 220-260 cases on behalf of individual employees. And we provide that free legal service. That is free legal aid.

As far as the right to work issue, we’re kind of on defense. We’re trying to fight back against Joe Biden and his desire to be the most pro-forced union and president in American history. He talks about that often, forcing more workers into Unions so they can pay more money in dues to elect more politicians that will give them more power over workers. You know that vicious cycle we talked about before.

But yeah, there’s lots of work where we’re hoping to pass the right to work on a couple of states as we move toward November and beyond. I think we’re going to make some progress in the next couple of months. Just a gut feeling, Rick.



Well, exciting times. I think the chaos and frankly, evil of the last couple of years has awakened enough people that for guys like you that have been on the front lines for years and you’re there in the fight, it’s basically created an opening, I think, for a lot of good things to happen in the next few years.

So, Godspeed, my friend. Keep it up. Keep up the great work. Website where folks can follow the lawsuits and donate and help all those good things?


Yeah, they can go to that amazing internet at www.nrtw.org, www.nrtw.org.


Nrtw.org and we’ll have a link today at wallbuilderslive.com to make it easy for folks to get over there. And Mark Mix, God bless you, brother. Thanks for coming on today.


Thank you for the opportunity. Always appreciate it.


We’ll talk soon. Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Biographical Sketches

Hi, friends, this is Tim Barton of WallBuilders. This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. And I know oftentimes we, parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read. And if you remember back to the Bible, to the book of Hebrews, it has the faith Hall of Fame where they outline the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans, we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes, not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity in our faith as well.

I want to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called The Courageous Leaders collection. And this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

And there’s a second collection called Heroes of History. In this collection, you’ll read about people like Benjamin Franklin or Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman; friends, the list goes on and on. This is a great collection for your young person to have and read and it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at www.wallbuilders.com. That’s www.wallbuilders.com.


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. And thanks to Mark Mix for joining us as well. We’ll have links to his website at our Web site today at wallbuilderslive.com. Back with David and Tim. Guys, this is, I would say a principle issue that is vital to be fighting for and it’s not you don’t have right to work in all 50 states. So this is a state by state situation.


I did not realize, though, that in a state like ours in Texas where you do have right to work, that in the travel industry essentially with planes, trains and automobiles, well not automobiles, but certainly trains and planes have an exemption here in federal law and they can be forced to donate. And in this case, someone was forced to donate in a way that violated her conscience and turned into an entire fiasco for Southwest Airlines. I think this is hopefully going to hurt the unions and actually help the individual employees.


You know, one of the things that’s really stood out to me in the last few weeks and I’ve heard a couple of comment on this, is we certainly know how far out of touch the Biden administration is with most of America right now. We talked in previous programs that right now Biden is underwater in 47 of 50 states are. In other words, this is negative, his disapproval numbers are higher than his approval numbers in nearly the entire United States.

And what you will find is, if you want to look at what he’s doing, the one thing he is doing the most of is making Unions happy. And that doesn’t make Americans happy, but it does make Unions happy. And there’s so much of what he’s been doing, the stuff that the Unions have wanted done, even though it’s destroying the economy, is destroying that free market, it’s got inflation going through the roof, it’s shutting down all sorts of business and industries, it’s stuff that the Unions have been warning.

And I was looking, even in general terms, the percentage of Unions in the entire free market system is 6%. But when you look in the federal system, it is 37% of federal employees are Union folks, and that’s where they’ve got huge impact. And Unions typically give the Democrats far more than they give anybody else.


And so, this is kind of like another sores tour, sore ladder or whatever. I mean, the Unions is one of the chief funders of Democrat party, and Biden has really made them happy. And in doing so, he’s killing the free market, he’s killing the competition, he’s killing what competition does, which is lower prices. And this is Union kind of stuff.

And so it is striking to see how far out of touch the Unions are with most of America and how most of America, is like 94% of us say what’s going on here? But when you look at it in terms of Union stuff, it really explains a lot. And Rick, as you said, it’s crazy that we have all these right to work laws in Texas and yet in airlines and railway, the federal law trumps it, which is supposed to I mean, that’s a supremacist clause. But why give those exceptions?

Why would you give exceptions, not for truckers or not for others, but you give it for railroads and for airlines? And that’s because the Unions still run that industry, still run the politicians on the Democrat side in that industry. And so here’s another example of killing the free market. So Unions have not been good.

Now, there was a time when unions broke the back of a lot of bad stuff going on, no question. But we’re not at that time right now. The Unions are not stopping corruption. The Unions are not stopping child labor or anything else. I mean, it’s really a different era and competition is really what is needed. And we just don’t see that from Biden administration. But I’m glad Mark is doing this.

And by the way, I was absolutely shocked to hear him say that they’ve got 22 staff attorneys and that on any given day they’ve got more than 200 cases going in courts on Union, the kind of issues, are you kidding me?

Standing for Freedom


Yeah, I had no idea he had that many attorneys on staff or that many cases that they were dealing with. I didn’t even know that this legal foundation, well, I always thought of him as just trying to get the right to work laws passed all across the country. So he’s been doing incredible work and he doesn’t make a big stink out of it. Man, he’s just out there getting it done.


Well, the fact that you just got $5.1 million whacked in Southwest Union, that’s not a good for their income, that’s not good for anything else. So, it’s good to have attorneys that are standing up for freedom and making sure that Unions can’t force you to violate your conscience and support abortions or whatever the Unions and Democrats want you to support. You get this free choice.

I really had no idea that Mark was involved in this kind of litigation at this kind of level with that many attorneys and 200+ cases or any given day. And hopefully, that Freedom March keeps going forward. And certainly, with the Judges we’ve had appointed when Trump was in office, it should keep marching forward on freedom. And that’s really is good stuff.


Well, guys, at a side note, this was something that when you think of all the airlines, Southwest is generally the one we would think would have the least drama. And so hopefully, this is something because we actually have many friends who are pilots in various capacity employees for Southwest. And this certainly doesn’t reflect some of who they are. And granted, we know some people and lots of airlines, not to sidetrack on that.

Unions And Your Rights — With Mark Mix

But Southwest, generally, you think of in a different light. They even had some different COVID policies and they were one of the early airlines to start removing some of the restrictions along the way. So you would think of them more as freedom-oriented and hopefully, this does help them correct course and set the tone for the other airlines to put them on notice that they should not be going down the same path.


Alright, folks, out of time for today here on WallBuilders Live. Be sure to check out the website wallbuilderslive.com. You can make a contribution one-time or monthly and that helps us to reach more people, get the truth out there and restore America’s constitutional republic. If you care about freedom, if you care about your child living in freedom, then it’s time to start giving more of your life, that’s your time. Get invested.

Start spending time being a student of freedom. Get one of our Constitution classes, biblical citizenship. Start studying these things. And start investing in other people as well. Start hosting classes in your home. But lives takes our time. That means invest in our time into what’s happening out there. Fortunes, yes, donating to candidates, donating to causes like WallBuilders Live, and allowing us to reach more people and be stronger in the culture.

And then, sacred honor, honor is something we really need to restore in this culture and being willing to stand for truth, being willing to speak truth, being willing to be honorable, challenged, everybody out there, lives, fortunes, sacred honor today.

Thanks so much for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.