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Voter Fraud, Election Integrity Is Needed Now More Than Ever: In today’s episode, we talk with Kris Kobach, the Secretary of State for Kansas. The Secretary of State is who is in charge of counting votes and protecting against voter fraud. It”€™s a very dangerous road to go on when you allow fraud in elections, people begin to lose hope in public servants and the election process. Learn about the initiative that Kris is apart of to protect the integrity of the election and how we can get more states and more Secretary of States on board with this initiative protecting against voter fraud. 

Air Date: 08/30/2017

Guests: Kris Kobach, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


Download: Click Here

Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times.  We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture, welcome to WallBuilders Live! Find out more at our websites WallBuildersLive.com and also WallBuilders.com.

We”€™re taking on the hottest topics of the day on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re doing that today with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder here at WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state rep, national speaker, and author. Find out more about us and the program at our websites WallBuildersLive.com so be sure and visit there today.

Fraud In The Elections

Speaking of faith in the culture and all of these things, obviously influencing the culture is huge. David, Tim, if you’re going to have an effective constitutional republic you’ve got to have that ability to give or refuse consent of the governed, as the Declaration talks about.

Of course, one of the ways we do that is in elections. If you can’t have faith in the elections, if you can’t have faith that there’s integrity there, and that the citizens are voting, and not voting more than once, and all those things, then people begin to not have faith in their public servants or the system itself. It”€™s a very dangerous road to go on when you allow fraud in elections.


Fraud is not a new thing in elections. The Bible talks about how there is nothing new under the sun. One of the things we have on our WallBuilders YouTube Page,  we show some election fraud attempts in previous generations, back in the Civil War, for example.

They went into cemeteries and they would take the names off a cemetery so that the dead were still voting. Well, that’s been going on for a long time. There was voter intimidation. They had what they called, “€œHide and Seek Ballot Boxes”€ so that blacks could not vote because they voted very strongly conservative Republican for many years. Dems didn’t like that and they moved the ballot boxes around. So they called them Hide and Seek.

There’s always been, with human nature, and with power being what it is, you want to be in power but if you have to cheat to get there, “€œSure, I”€™ll rig the elections. I’ll get my guys to vote as many times as possible. Hide the ballots on the other side. I’ll disqualify whatever.”€


This is not a new process, but one of the people that’s been really good on shining the light on how the process is failing in many areas and how it can be fixed is a guy named Kris Kobach.

Kris is the secretary of the state of Kansas. Great guy, known Chris for a number of years. He was a constitutional law professor before he got elected to office. But when you think about a Secretary of State, I would bet you- every state has a Secretary of State. I’ll bet you that if I asked whoever’s listening, “€œWho’s your secretary of state?”€ I’ll bet you 95 out of 100 cannot name their secretary of state. I’m sitting in Texas, I cannot tell you who our Texas secretary of state is right now. I’m very politically involved and I don’t know who our secretary of state is.


I’m glad you admitted that first because as you said that I was going, “€œOh wait, I know it changed last year. I don’t remember who it is.”€

How The Left Manipulates The Secretary Of State Position


Exactly, but that’s one of the most important offices in the state because they’re the ones with the voters rolls, and to help enforce voter integrity, etc. By the way, the other side has known this for a good while. It was several years ago that George Soros, if you don’t know who George Soros is he’s an atheist billionaire who uses his billions to help tear down traditional government, constitutional forms of government.

He’s willing to do just about anything he can to remake America. All these protest groups that you see and all the things that are trying to tear down, whether it be cops or whatever else, he’s the one who generally funds nearly all of that. He funds so many of the attacks on us as well. Anything traditional value he goes after.

He had a number of years ago what was called, “€œThe Secretary of State Project.”€ In that, he put a lot of money into electing his guys as secretary of state. That’s a ballot position that most people don’t care about.

They go to vote for president, vote for governor, or vote for senator, congressman, I don’t know who Secretary of State is, I don’t care, I”€™ll Skip that one. So he put a lot of money into getting those guys elected because they are the ones who count the vote.

If you remember some years back when Al Franken actually got elected to the U.S. Senate out of Minnesota, Norm Coleman had been the congressman there, a Republican congressman, Al Franken, obviously a very progressive liberal Democrat. And the secretary of state up there was one of those Soros guys, was one of the guys who got elected on that Soros Secretary of State Project.

So the vote was fairly close between Franken and Coleman. As I recall, they recounted the vote four times. And Coleman won every time, when Coleman won the Secretary of State would demand another recount. They did it again and Coleman won, another one and Coleman won, and they finally in the fourth recount, I think it was, Al Franken won and the secretary of state said, “€œThat’s it. The election is over, Al Franken is the new senator.”€

That’s how big that position is. The same thing happened with the governor’s election in Washington state. I think it was Dino Rossi at the time. They had a recount and that was one of the guys who got elected to the Soros Secretary of State Project.

“€œOh no, I finally got the votes necessary. Dino, the conservative Republican loses, the other guy wins.”€ So that really is a big position.

Kris is one of the guys who is in a position of believing there should be voter integrity, that your vote should only count once, every vote should count regardless of which side you cast it on, and there should be integrity at the ballot box, and so he’s really pursued that.

He’s been very aggressive. One of the most aggressive Secretary of States in the nation, in prosecuting voter fraud when he finds it, matter of fact, he was recently named by President Trump as one of the co-chairs of the Voter Fraud Investigation Committee at the federal level. Mike Pence and Kris Kobach are chairing that.

Kris is a great guy and we’ve just seen a report that says that in a number of counties now you actually have more registered voters than you have people living in the county, which has got to be a problem. So here’s another example of potential voter fraud and Kris is the guy to tell us about it and what we should do about it.  


Kris will be our guest when we come back, stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

A Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Too often today history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding. Such as Lemuel Haynes.

Haynes, though abandoned as a baby, pioneer churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master’s degree, and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, The Congregationalist.

He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington’s birthday, he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life, he expressed his willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called, “€œa sacred ark.”€

American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about Pastor Lemuel Haynes and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com.

How Does Voter Fraud Happen


Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our friend Kris Kobach is back with us, the Secretary of State of Kansas. How are you, Kris?


I’m doing well, thanks. How are you doing?


Hey man, doing well. You’ve done a phenomenal job there in dealing with voter fraud. It seems to be a major issue all across the country. Judicial Watch has said, “€œEleven more states that have more registered voters than voting age citizens.”€ That seems to be a math problem.


It is a math problem. It’s caused by a number of things. One is that we have a very mobile country. So people are moving from state to state and it’s really easy to get registered in your new state, get a new driver’s license, and nobody is going to ask you if you’re a U.S. citizen, they’re going to ask if you want to register to vote.

But we don’t do as well of job as a country of making sure our voter rolls are kept clean in the state you left. So one of the biggest problems is that we get people registered in multiple states because even though they moved to state number two, they’re still on the voter rolls in state number one. Some of those people are tempted to vote in both states. And we’ve been prosecuting people in Kansas here.


That was actually my next question for you. If they leave, how much fraud do we see with them trying to vote in both? And I misspoke earlier, certain counties in each of those 11 states.


Right. And usually, it”€™s counties by the way, who do the job of the day to day maintenance. So if a person leaves and moves to another state, it’s that county in that first state that is going to be the one that goes in and takes off the person on the voter rolls once they have a confirmation that the person has left.

One Deterrent To Voter Fraud

But it is a problem because some of those people will vote twice. We’ve seen that happen a lot in Kansas. I think I’m the only secretary of state who has the authority to prosecute voter fraud. We’ve prosecuted eight such cases just in the last few years. There are many others we could prosecute, we just don’t have enough attorneys to prosecute them all.


But that’s still a great deterrent, right? People see that on the news, they read about in the paper, and they go, “€œOh, wait, they really do go after you for that.”€ Because I think most people probably have a perception, “€œOh, you can get away with that, nobody ever gets prosecuted for it.”€ So when you do actually prosecute it”€™s huge.


Exactly, and that perception has been accurate until recently when people like me and a few others are saying, “€œLook, we’re going to prosecute and send a message to these people who commit voter fraud. We’re going to catch you, and we’re going to prosecute you.”€

What I try to do in our cases, we usually fine somewhere between $2,000 and $5000. So you may not spend time behind bars for voting twice, but if we catch you, you’re going to pay a lot of money.


How do you find out? How do you discover that someone has voted in both places?


Usually, it’s through what’s called the Interstate Crosschecked System and this is hosted by the state of Kansas. There are 30 states that participate and every year, participating states, compare voter rolls to one another.

The computer bounces the databases together and shows that these people are registered in Kansas and Nebraska. These people are registered in Oklahoma and Georgia. It just shows us who’s registered in more than one state. Then it also shows us, who according to the voter history, which means the history of which elections you voted in, who appeared to vote in more than one state in the same election.

We use that as a starting point in our investigation. The next thing we look for is the signatures. So if we see that Joe Smith noted in Alabama in Kansas we will then look for the signature on the poll book in Alabama and the signature on the absentee ballot request in Kansas and see if the signatures match. If the signatures match we probably have a case.

Second Cause Of Voter Fraud


From what you’ve seen, there’s definitely that issue of registered in both states. Is that the worst kind of voter fraud or do you see other efforts that you’ve had to go after?


Another kind of voter fraud that we see a lot of, and unfortunately, an increasingly large amount of is voting by noncitizens. This is a huge problem. In Kansas, we have, because we’re in litigation against the ACLU which is trying to stop us from requiring proof of citizenship at the time people register. We”€™ve had to produce documents for court in court cases and we’ve shown a hundred-


Wait, I’ve got to stop. Part of your job as Secretary of State is to make sure we have faith in our elections, security in our elections, that we’re actually for a representative government, that we actually have people being elected by citizens of your state or citizens of the country, the ACLU doesn’t want you to do your job, doesn’t want to make sure that it’s actually just citizens that are voting.


Go figure. The ACLU has just been such a mischievous and problematic influence on election integrity. Every state that tries to do something right, like ensure that only citizens are on the voter roll will usually get sued by the ACLU.

If the state is trying to put photo ID in place, the ACLU is likely to sue. One thing after another, they go after the good guys. Anyway, we’re in litigation with them right now. We”€™ve presented to court proof 127 specific named individuals, non-citizens, who got on our voter rolls or who attempted to get on after our proof of citizenship requirement was put in place.

On top of that, we’ve had an expert say, “€œWell, this is just one we found. It looks like the total number could be over 18,000 on voter rolls.”€ And we’re a relatively small state population wise, I”€™m sure if you look at a state like Texas or California the numbers would be really big because of the much higher percentage of people who are not U.S. citizens there plus just the higher population.

So this problem, of non-citizens getting on voter rolls is massive. In 46 of the 50 states you do not have to prove your citizenship you just sign on the dotted line and one of the things you’re affirming when you sign the voter registration card is that you are a U.S. citizen. Some of that people may not even be able to read well enough to see what they’re signing.


I guess the left is only worried about non-citizens voting or influence in our elections if they’re Russians, right? Yes, exactly.


I guess. It’s a big problem. One of the cases we prosecuted recently in Canada was a non-citizen in our state. He was a citizen of Peru, and he registered and voted multiple times in the Kansas elections while being a non-citizen. And again, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

How You Can Make A Difference


We’ve got listeners all over the country. A lot of Secretary of States are appointed not elected. What’s a way, what would you encourage citizens to do to help get people like you in positions like this or what they can do to even say to their elected officials, “€œWe want some focus on Election Integrity.”€


I would say if you’re in a state where you don’t have an elected Secretary of State I would write to your governor’s office and demand that your state join the Interstate Crosschecks System which Kansas coordinates, that’s the system of 30 states. We have a lot of red states in it, a handful of blue states in it but there are quite a few states that are not members yet and we’d like to get all 50 involved. That’s one thing.

If you’re in a state that elects the Secretary of State, be sure that when election time comes around that you are voting for a candidate who is 100 percent committed to photo I.D, to proof of citizenship, to joining the Interstate Crosscheck Program, all of these things that you can hold them accountable on.

For too long the Secretaries of State in some states have been either unwilling to take the necessary steps to secure the voter rolls or they’ve just been kind of lackadaisical about it and don’t realize it is a problem.


I guess even on a more local level with a state legislator pushing for voter ID and saying, “€œHey, I want election integrity, make sure we know that people who are voting are citizens.”€


Yeah, that’s a great point. As I mentioned, There are only four states that require proof of citizenship when you register to vote. Those states are Kansas, Arizona, Alabama, and Georgia. If you live in any one of the other 46 states, absolutely right your state legislator and say, “€œI want our state to require proof of citizenship at the time of voter registration. And follow the Kansas or Arizona example and do it.”€ There are other states that are considering it but it’s going to take we the people in those states saying, “€œHey, we want to do this. We’re concerned about non-citizens voting in our state too.”€


Kris, I appreciate your time. We”€™ve got a lot of stations in Kansas but tons of stations outside of Kansas. So I know your answer to the people of Kansas but thank you for being a blessing to people around the country as well. You’ve really taken this bull by the horns over the last few years and been the leader on this nationally. We just really appreciate what you’ve been doing.


It’s my pleasure, thank you for carrying this show and talking about this issue.


That’s Kris Kobach, Secretary of State for Kansas. Stay with us, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton

Pastors Only Briefing Trip


Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor”€™s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Conservatives Were Right, Voter Fraud Is Real


Welcome back to WallBuilders live, thanks for staying with us and thanks to Kris Kobach for joining us, Secretary of State there in Kansas. Back with David Barton now. Guys, just like you were saying at the beginning, this is a very important position for our election integrity. Kris, of course, has made it more than just about his citizens there in Kansas and the citizens of Kansas. But helping to make sure that we secure those elections across the country.


Yes, I was surprised how many states are already on board with this. I didn’t realize that so many states were already comparing voter rolls to see. It was also interesting to know the counties are responsible when one individual leaves to make sure that they clear that role.

As he identified, this isn’t just people that are moving that haven’t been taken off a role. You have people that are voting multiple times in multiple places. And so as much as we hear kind of that perspective that says, “€œHey, this is fake, that’s bogus. You conservatives, you’re talking about voter fraud. It never happens.”€ And we”€™re able to show that actually, there’s hundreds and thousands of occasions where this does happen and at times, especially if it’s in a local area, it could be enough to sway local elections.


What did he say, 18,000 in Kansas alone?


As he pointed out, “€œIn Texas, you guys are much bigger, much greater population, who knows how many it could be in Texas. We could argue is probably not enough to change the presidential landscape necessarily, but that sure could change a U.S. senator, a U.S. congressman, your state reps, your governor races, certainly on the local level can have an incredible impact. As you mentioned, it’s something that we ought to be thinking, “€œHow can we do things to make sure our states are where they need to be to protect voter integrity?”€


I was surprised that he’s the only secretary of state in the United States that has the power to initiate charges and prosecute voter fraud. I thought, “€œThat’s wild.”€ The person who handles votes the most and would be the quickest to see voter fraud, he’s the only one in the United States that’s empowered to be able to do that, the other states need to do that.

He gave some good recommendations on what states should do. Ask those other 20 states, ask your governors, ask your Secretary of State to join that Interstate Crosscheck System.

Only Four States Require Citizenship To Vote

I saw one one study that was done just between Florida and New York, there were 52,ooo voters that were registered in both Florida and in New York and were often voting in both places. And that’s just one exchange of two states.

So there are 20 states that aren’t on that Crosscheck System, so that’s a good one to call your legislators about. Just like the Soros Project, you need to pay attention to the Secretary of State. A lot of states elect them, some states are appointed by the governor. You really need to pay attention to that. That’s something we can do.

Then I was shocked to find that he said that only four states require proof of citizenship to vote. Forty-six states don’t require proof of citizenship to vote? That’s amazing, legally you have to be a citizen to vote, that is the law. But we don’t require proof of that? That’s just an easy one to go to legislators and others and say, “€œWe need to get some voter security here in our state.”€

Especially if you’re in Kansas looking 18,000 votes that can swing something, or if you’re new york and looking at 52,000 votes, and that’s just in that one area of double registration. That doesn’t count multiple votes, that doesn’t count the fraud, in other areas with illegals voting, and it doesn’t count the fraud that happens when felons vote who are not allowed to vote. So all of those areas, this is a huge deal, making sure that we get who we choose in the elections and not somebody who someone else wants to give us.


And then we can trust that that election has not been stolen. Got to take a quick break, we’ll be right back, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Biographical Sketches

Hi, friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at WallBuilders.com.

Enforcing The Law To Stop Voter Fraud


Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Back with David and Tim Barton talking about the integrity of our elections and the things that we can do. Secretary of State of Kansas, Kris Kobach was with us earlier in the program pointing out some of those things. David, Tim, of course, the idea of letting our legislators know we want voter I.D. as you said David, in the last segment it’s shocking how few states actually require that.


But it is also interesting the ones that have required some kind of voter ID to see how aggressive the ACLU and others are in trying to strike that down. Because they really don’t want that kind of protection, which is crazy. But that’s who they are, they’re on the progressive left, and those guys want votes any way they can get them, by and large. So that’s unfortunate. So that is something we can do.

Rick, you made a comment, you were telling Kris that the perception is that if you don’t prosecute then it’s ok to do it, that if voter fraud is going on and nobody’s been prosecuted for it then they’re going to keep doing it. Which goes back to this thing that there is nothing new under the sun.

The Bible verse in Ecclesiastes 8:11 says, “€œWhen the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.”€ It’s like if you don’t prosecute what’s wrong, if you don’t make that an example, then people say, “€œIt was no big deal. I’ll just do it, I’ll do more of it.”€

The enforcement of the law really is a big deal in the Bible. Because of that, a deterrent to future crime shows people that it’s wrong to do. “€œWe’re going to punish you for doing it.”€

As Kris pointed out, he’s essentially the only state in the nation right now that’s punishing voter fraud that is happening elsewhere. We’ve seen some convictions but he’s really aggressive with it.

A List Of Things That Require Photo Id


Also in Texas, we’ve done some voter I.D. laws because we said, “€œHey, we want to make sure that we protect this election process. We want to make sure that we are not allowing someone to come in and sway us illegally.”€ As you mentioned, one of the arguments today is, “€œWait a second, you’re discriminating against people, that’s a racist.”€ And all of these things we hear.

There’s a Meme, I don’t know if you guys have seen it. The Meme says, “€œAll the places that requiring a photo ID isn’t a racist. When you purchase alcohol, cigarettes, open a bank account, you apply for food stamps, for welfare, for Medicaid, for Social Security, for a job, for unemployment, you rent a house, you buy a house, apply for a mortgage, drive a car, rent a car, buy a car, get on an airplane, you get married, you purchase a gun, you adopt a pet, you rent a hotel room, apply for a hunting license, apply for a fishing license, buy a cell phones, visit a casino, get a prescription, hold a rally to protest, donate your blood, or buy an R rated movie or an M rated game. And yet, if you require an ID for voting, that’s “€œracist.”€


That’s funny. That’s a  long list, I hadn’t even thought about that. But yeah, we require IDs and nobody says it”€™s racist.  


Right. But yet when we talk about the election, which is how we choose the leaders of the nation, which determines on so many levels the freedoms we enjoy, the limitations of government or the growth of government, things that impact your life on such a greater level. And we say, “€œWait a second, if you require an I.D. here now you’re being racist.”€

Of course, they’re trying to put a label on that so you won’t support, in this case, to have that voter I.D. so you won’t oppose them saying, “€œHey, everybody should be able to vote because if you oppose us you’re intolerant, you’re racist, your bigoted.”€

Protect Integrity, Stop Voter Fraud

But it really, fundamentally, we’re trying to protect the integrity of the election which Kirs in Kansas is doing a great job of and hopefully, we can get more states and more Secretary of State to get on board with this initiative and really protect the election process.


Everybody listening right now, there’s something you can do, let your legislators know that you want this to happen in your state, that you want to make sure that the elections are protected, there is a requirement that you are a citizen, that should prove that you’re a citizen before you go in and vote in that election. Thanks for listening today, you’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.