Voting: Keeping The Duty Secure With Ken Blackwell: With many elections in full swing and several races incredibly close, we’re covering an important topic today – voter fraud. Join us and our special guest, Ken Blackwell, as we discuss the issue of voter fraud in elections today. We’re talking about how a lack of the fear of God plays into this, who gets to vote, who oversees the process, and more!

Air Date: 08/28/2018

Guest: Ken Blackwell

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. Always from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Tim Barton’s with us, national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

Check out WallBuildersLive.com. That’s our radio site where there’s a list of all the stations across the country where you can pick up the program. It’s also got archives over the last few weeks of the program. And then go to WallBuilders.com, our main website, to get you some good tools for equipping, inspiring, and educating, yourself your friends and family, the people in your life. It’s great for Sunday school classes, it’s great for homeschooling, it’s great for just family study at home to really understand the Constitution or find out about the founding principles of America and how to apply that to our daily life today.

Later in the program, Ken Blackwell will be with us. We’re going to be talking about voter fraud and how to make sure that we’re protecting the system that actually elects our leaders in this constitutional republic.

And, David, Tim, we’ve had, of course, Ken on several times, but right now it’s timely. We had this special election in Ohio that’s down to the wire with just a few hundred votes. The Kansas governor race is maybe, what, less than 100 hundred votes. So, there’s a lot of close elections across the country, so voter fraud can really swing this thing one way or the other if we don’t keep an eye on it.

David:

Well, voter fraud can swing it and there are a lot of folks who have a Machiavellian kind of attitude that says the end justifies the means, my guy needs to win, my gal needs to win, I’m going to make sure they do. And I’m just going to be real blunt here spiritually. That kind of attitude dominates where people do not have a true, what’s called a “fear of God.” You don’t imagine yourself ever standing before God to answer for it. If you did, you’d say, “You know, I’m going to stand before God someday and answer to Him and if I cheat here, if I steal this election, if I lie, if I do, man, I’m in trouble with Him and that’ll be for all eternity, so I’m not going to do those those bad things.”

Not Having the Fear of God

David:

It’s interesting that in early American courts when you did something bad like committed murder or theft or something else they said that, “John Smith, not having the fear of God before his eyes, did steal from his neighbor, or so and so, or whatever.” So, a lot of this kind of election fraud concern comes from people who are not God conscious. And even if they’re God-believing people they just don’t ever think about having to personally answer to God some day. And that affects behavior.

But all of that aside–

Rick:

Hey, David, go back and say that again. What was it about not having “the fear of God before his eyes”– is that how that read?

David:

That’s it. Yeah, “John Smith, not having the fear of God before his eyes, did commit murder, did steal from his neighbor, did whatever.” And he was not cognizant, he was not thinking, it was not in front of him. It should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about the scriptures and what the Bible teaches that the Bible tells us, Jesus tells us, you will give account to God for every word you’ve spoken. Okay, be careful what you say. We’re told also in the Bible that you will give account to God for every deed you do – everything you do. And we’re also told that we’ll even give account for our thoughts in 1 Corinthians.

So, we– when we’re aware of that we say, “Okay, wait a minute, I need to change the way I’m thinking about here. I’ve got hate in my heart, Jesus said hate is like murder. I can’t somebody. I’ve got to change that because I don’t want to have to answer to God for the murder in my heart. Wait a minute, I don’t want to say that because if–”

Where Voter Fraud Comes In

David:

See, that kind of stuff when you’re conscious that you answer to God it changes your behavior. Which, by the way, is why people like Ben Franklin other founding fathers in their state constitutions often put the requirement in there that you can’t hold office unless you believe in a future state of rewards and punishments. If you don’t think you’re going to stand before God an answer to Him, we don’t want you anywhere close to government because you will corrupt it. And that’s where voter fraud comes in is from folks who don’t have that old school fear of God before their eyes, as the courts used to say.

Now, when you get to election fraud– and we saw a report recently were that– what was it– one of the states there was like 100 people that were 116 or older and they were on the voting rolls. Wait a minute – you don’t have 100 people that are 116 years old and older. But they’re still in the voting rolls. That’s a problem. So, that means somebody can go in and vote in their name and they would appear to be on the voting rolls and you really have to have integrity on this.

And when you look at it, there’s really two issues that you have to look at when it comes to voting fraud. Number one is, who do you allow to vote? Who gets to vote? Who has the right to vote? And the second one is, who oversees and who enforces the voting laws when you do go vote? Who gets to vote? Well, whoever it is you only get to vote once. But we’ve had cases here in Texas that I’ve been involved with where we prosecuted one guy for voting over eight hundred times. So, who votes is a big deal. And then who oversees the force of the voting laws is another big deal.

Motor Voter

David:

Regarding the first one I’m going to hit something here because we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks some states are moving back to what used to be called motor voter. If you can get a driver’s license you can vote. You can be illegal and you can vote.

I want to go back to the Constitution framing. When at the at the Constitutional Convention they were framing the Constitution, I’ll point out that seven of the 39 signers of the Constitution were immigrants. They were not born in the United States, they were not raised here, they came from elsewhere. And one of those immigrants was Alexander Hamilton who came from the West Indies. And at the Constitutional Convention he and Pierce Butler, a guy who had come from– I forget where he came from – Scotland or somewhere else.

They were they were talking about how that when they first came here if they had been allowed to vote they would have destroyed the nation because they would have voted according to the way that they thought in the West Indies, and in Scotland, and elsewhere. They said, “We got to America and found there’s a whole different form of thinking here, that your government runs differently, that you have different standards and if you don’t uphold those standards you will actually destroy the government.”  So, Alexander Hamilton said, “You shouldn’t allow anyone to vote unless they’ve been here 14 years. It takes at least that long to start thinking like an American.” And eventually they got down to five years.

So, what they said in the Constitution is you can’t be a citizen unless you’ve been here five years. Now, you couldn’t vote until you were a citizen. They didn’t want you voting until you’d had five years of living here to know how this country works, see how it works. In five years you can become a citizen and then you can vote. So–

Rick:

Now, David, that seems like just slightly more, not a lot more, but just slightly more than stopping by the DMV and passing the drivers test.

You Have To Renew Your Thinking

David:

Oh yeah. And see, what happens, so many immigrants come to America because they live in third world nations. They live in nations that are corrupt, and have corrupt government, and they’re tyrannical. But that’s what they live with and that’s all they know. They know America is different, but they don’t know how.

So, if they come voting right after they get here they’ll still vote according to third world thinking. You have to renew your thinking, as the Bible says. You have to put off the old, put on the new, Ephesians 4 talks about that, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind.  Until you learn how to think like an American you won’t vote the right way.

So, this motor voter stuff that’s going forward is one way to really undermine the freedoms we’ve had. Because you’ll vote according to your third world thinking from wherever you came from. And that’s not saying we don’t get immigrants from first world nations, we do. But, by and large, most immigrants come here because where they are from is so terrible and so bad and they have no real experience with being an American.  So, that’s part of a voter integrity That’s a little commentary aside from where we’re talking today. But we got Ken Blackwell that we’re going to talk to later who is the secretary of state for Ohio and he dealt with this on a regular basis. And Ohio is one of those places where they’ve got a really close election right now.

Rick:

No doubt about it. But, David, I’m glad you brought up the motor voter thing because that was really one of the major causes for clogging up the voter system and getting people in there that then didn’t get out and didn’t get taken out even when they died, and it just became a mess.

And frankly, the idea of we want to make it easier and easier to vote. I just– that sounds good, but I don’t really think that’s the right idea. I think you want people that have to put a little bit of effort into getting registered, and want to be an informed citizen, that sort of thing. And not just make it too easy to where obody has to actually put some effort forward.

Right or Responsibility?

David:

The way we’ve said it before, and I’ll repeat it here– Now, understand the right way I’m saying this – we really don’t believe that voting is a right. We believe it’s a responsibility. If you view voting as a responsibility you take it much more seriously, you think about the consequences that “I have a responsibility to do something with my vote”.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

If you just look at it as “I’ve got the right to vote”, yeah, you’ve got the right to go to a theater, you’ve got the right to go to McDonald’s. Yeah, but that’s not it. This is something that’s really, really, serious. It’s a responsibility.  

So, when you see voting as a responsibility and not just a right then there should be some effort put into it. You should consider what your vote will do for the future and what these policies will do if we get them enacted. And that’s the kind of voters you really want. That’s what we used to do in school was showed the seriousness of voting and how significant, how important, it was to vote and how you need to be careful with your vote. And we guarded it.

So, you did have to work through the process of becoming a citizen before you could vote. We didn’t just let you vote when you walked through the door. And it’s for the very reason the founding fathers talked about. Which, has not changed over time, by the way, because human nature has not changed.

Rick:

That’s right.

David:

So, you’re right, Rick. There should be some effort put into it. You at least should know the people you’re going to vote on when you get there. Don’t just know who the president, or vice president, or governor, or senator, is going to be – know who the dog catcher is going to be that you’re going to vote for, know who the school board official, put some time and effort into it. That’s the best way to help the nation.

Rick:

Yeah. And you said it exactly right – it’s a responsibility and we need to focus more on what the corresponding responsibilities are to those rights that we have and begin teaching those things once again.

Quick break, we’ll be right back. Ken Blackwell, our special guest. Stay with us – you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Front Sight Handgun Training.

Rick:

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Visit RickGreen.com today for the dates and the details. We’re giving away this $1,000 course for free to the first 100 supporters of WallBuilders Live that register for the course at RickGreen.com. Come learn the real purpose of the Second Amendment and why the Founding Fathers believed it was so important for we citizens to be armed.

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And the $1,000 course registration is completely waived for the first 100 WallBuilders Live supporters to register. You pay for your travel and ammo, but we’re giving you the course for free as a gift to our supporters. I look forward to seeing you on the range this fall. For all the details visit RickGreen.com today.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Ken Blackwell is back with us, senior fellow for human rights and constitutional governance at the Family Research Council, former secretary of state of Ohio. And written a lot of great books – Rebuilding America, The Blueprint, several others. We’ll have links today at WallBuildersLive.com. Ken, good to have you back, sir.

Ken Blackwell:

Hey, Rick, good to be with you, sir.

How Much Does Fraud Play Into These Really Close Races?

Rick:

Hey, you obviously dealt with a lot of voter fraud when you were secretary of state. You fought this battle, actually, nationally on several levels. And, of course, we’ve got several close elections one there in Ohio for Congress. Now, the Kansas governor’s race. How much does fraud play into these really close races?

Ken Blackwell:

Well, you just summed it up. Fraud can be decisive in a very close race. If there’s a landslide victory one way or another, 500 fraudulent votes might not make a difference. But when you’re talking about there being a razor thin difference between the candidates every fraudulent vote has negated a legitimate vote and the fraudulent votes tend to be decisive in the wrong way.

So, in order to protect the integrity of our system it is incumbent upon all boards of elections and statewide election officials to clean up their voter rolls, to make sure that the voters are who they claim to be. So, steps like voter I.D., cleaning up the rolls, are essential to protect the integrity of the result of a vote count.  

Rick:

We sometimes kind of ignore those details until it becomes an issue and there’s a close race. We need to fix this stuff ahead of time, which, you have obviously been calling for. And you’ve made the point, “Look, Ohio is battleground number one”. That’s an area we definitely need to take care of this.

Ken Blackwell:

Oh, absolutely. See, if you have a race like in Ohio ‘12, the special election, being decided by 600 votes. And then they find that there are a number of votes that mysteriously reappeared after the initial tally, that raises questions in itself. Then there are stories afoot that there are a number of folks, who, if they in fact did vote in this election they would have been a 116 years old.

Eroding the Confidence of the Voters

Rick:

Oh wow.

Ken Blackwell:

That just erodes the confidence of the voters when the result is tallied when you can see gaping holes like that in the integrity of the system. So, luckily for us in Ohio, we have a pretty time tested system where we have two Democrats, two Republicans, in every board of elections. And there has not been any sign that these boards have been corrupted. So, I think we’ll get a final– we’ll get a count, but there’s still plenty of work to do to clean up our voter rolls. And John Husted has been in the forefront of that. But even he has been on a timetable that’s a little slow.

Rick:

Who should people– as they listen to this and go, “Okay, well what can I do as a citizen?” Who is the right entity, state entity, to call for this kind of thing?

Ken Blackwell:

Well, in Ohio it would be the county board of elections. And in most situations votes are tallied and counted at the county level. And there are over 3,000 counties in this country. So, that’s where you start – your local Board of Elections. And then you have the fallback of your statewide election officials like your secretary of state in most states.

Rick:

I remember there was a Tea Party, it was actually one of the ones in the lawsuit against the IRS that just won a settlement there, that did True the Vote. And it was where citizens were getting involved and saying, “Hey, we’ll go volunteer to comb through the databases.” They found like 10,000 in Houston when they first started. Does that does that help or does that complicate? What’s your feeling on those efforts?

Civic Engagement – You Can’t Get Enough Eyeballs on the System

Ken Blackwell:

The civic engagement  you can’t get enough eyeballs on the system.

Rick:

Yeah.

Ken Blackwell:

So, transparency is an important ingredient in advancing the integrity of our election. So, when I stop to think that in Ohio, poll workers have a mean age of 66-67 years of age. That means that a lot of young people have not picked up the engagement of involving themselves at local level at the polling places. But that shouldn’t surprise us when you see what’s happened with teaching civics in school. They’ve jettisoned civics classes out of the curriculums in many schools.

Rick:

Right. Right. Well, you mentioned voter I.D. earlier. Is that– we’ve been working on this one for years. Are more and more states adopting that? Is that– it’s been upheld by the courts? Where is our status on requiring a voter ID?

Ken Blackwell:

Yeah, more and more states are requiring photo voter IDs and that isn’t unusual given what we need photo IDs for in our country. If you want to get food stamps you need a voter I.D., if you want to get on an airplane you need voter I.D., if you want to take out a library book you need photo I.D.. So, it shouldn’t surprise folks that a basic photo I.D. to give evidence that the person is who they claim to be should be required at our polling places.

Rick:

Alright, last thing, Ken, because most people don’t know this about you. We know you as  constitutional patriot, and leader, and elected official, and all of those good things, but you are a football player too. Xaviera and went to Cowboys training camp. And I understand you didn’t want to be a lineman – you wanted to stay linebacker.

Nobody Talks About This

Ken Blackwell:

Oh, absolutely. Gil Brandt and the coaching staff decided that they would convert me to offensive guard. And you had to be crazy to be offensive guard in 1970 because they hadn’t outlawed hit slapping. So, I decided to save what little brains God had given me and went back and pursued a higher education, which has panned out just fine.

Rick:

Well, I saw a couple years ago you were inducted into Xavier’s Athletic Hall of Fame. I said, “Man, nobody talks about Ken’s football career. We always talk about his political career.

Ken Blackwell:

Yeah.

Rick:

I just had to mention that.

Ken Blackwell:

I appreciate it.

Rick:

Alright. You bet. Well, I sure appreciate you taking time and being with us today. Thanks for coming on.

Ken Blackwell:

God bless, Rick.

Rick:

Thank you. That’s Ken Blackwell. Stay with us. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Join WallBuilders In Israel!

Rick:

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Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Special thanks to Ken Blackwell for joining us as well. Back with David and Tim now. Did you guys know he was at Dallas Cowboys training camp?

David:

Oh, yeah. I’ve had great conversations with him about that. And, by the way, he was talking about why he decided not to go back. He had, as I recall, some injury problems that kept him from doing everything he wanted to. But it was a little different back in that day. But I’m not sure that I knew that head slaps were illegal. Does that mean I can’t use that on Tim anymore? Is that–

Rick:

That’s no way to get your radio crew in line anymore.

Tim:

I think he’s been watching too much NCIS and seeing Gibbs doing some head slaps or something.

Rick:

Yes.

Tim:

I am not sure, but–

David:

He has some great stories from training camp and the Cowboys back there in the 70s. It was a lot of fun to talk to him about that.

Why Down Ballot Races Are So Important

David:

It’s interesting I think Ken made a really important point because who your elected officials are is very important to ballot integrity and getting the right stuff done. And, generally, you’re– in many states your election officials are elected at local elections. In other words, when you’re going to vote for U.S. senator you may have an election official on that ballot. Which is why down ballot races are so important because nobody thinks about “Who’s my election official going to be and who should I choose for that?”

But that’s really important because you can vote for the big guy, but if it’s a race where there’s only 100 votes separate you and down at the bottom you’ve elected somebody who’s corrupt as an election official, than how you voted up top makes no difference.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

So, that really is of importance. But I love what he said about we need more young people involved. What’d he say – the median age in Ohio was 68 or something? Tim is an election judge here. In his area he’s one of the election judges, he supervises and runs that election.

Tim:

And I would point out – I think I am the youngest election judge in the county.

David:

Yeah, that’s probably right.

Tim:

A 35 year old. So, I don’t know that our average where we are is all that different from being the mid 60s either. It does tend to seem like this is more of the retired person’s game in the sense of they’ve got free time and what else are they going to do? And young people or working professionals, “Well, I don’t have time for that. I have to show up for a job, I have to make money, etc..” And although those are obviously significant things, you really do need people involved.

Being A Part of the Process is the Important Thing

Tim:

In fact, Rick, even when you mentioned the people that would go and they would just check the rolls, right. Going through in– was Houston–

Rick:

Right.

Tim:

–where there were 10,000 names–

David:

Right.

Tim:

–they found there was a problem with them. Sometimes you don’t have to volunteer specifically at the election. You can do things at other times. But being a part of the process is what’s the important thing. That unfortunately, and it was mentioned in the interview, we’re not teaching civic responsibility in most schools anymore. Basic civics classes are not there.

And we’ve talked about the staggering statistics about how many people in America don’t know basic things from the Constitution whether it be from the First Amendment, whether it be the three branches of government, things that things that would seemingly need to be obvious for America to remain who she is and to be free. We just don’t know anymore. And part of that is a civic responsibility of getting involved in the process. And certainly, when it comes to having voter integrity, or accurate elections, you need people who have integrity who are going to be there. So, instead of us just being frustrated with things being corrupt. Well, let’s be the ones that get involved and be the solution. So, it’s not corrupt.

Be The Solution!

Rick:

That’s so good. And that’s so true across the board, Tim, it’s so easy to complain. It’s so easy to scream at the TV, or whatever, and talk about how that they have messed things up, and how somebody needs to do something. But you’re exactly right – it’s us. We’re the ones in this case, in studying the Constitution, in studying the candidates themselves.

David, you mentioned earlier, knowing who those people are. Well, I would bet that most of our listeners right now go to a church where a voter guide is not given out.  Therefore, they could be the one– you’re listening right now, you could be the one to put together a local voter guide, to download voter guides from our website, or from my voter guide, and then take those and make copies and hand them out of church. Tim, you’re right. We’re the ones that have to do it – not just complain but actually take action.

Tim:

It’s one of the things the Founding Fathers emphasized even with the Constitution, right. It was “we the people”. And, Rick, one of the things I’ve heard you tell young people many times, and actually, I think even that the Constitution classes you teach, Constitution Alive, you mention that the Constitution works, but we have to work it.

Rick:

That’s right.

Tim:

If we’re looking at the nation and it’s not working it’s not because we have a broken Constitution, it’s because we’re not doing it properly, we’re not doing it correctly. And this is where, really, we the people are the solution. And certainly, voter integrity is a big deal. This is something we should be concerned about. We fought for a long time in Texas to make sure that we could have some kind of verification when people come in. And as an election judge I make sure we check your I.D. and if you don’t have a valid ID, well, you actually are still allowed to vote provisionally in Texas. But generally, that means we’re going to let you sign a piece of paper and then we’re not going to count your vote is oftentimes what happens with that. Because they say, “We’re not going to make a scene at the voting booth, but we’re going to make sure it’s provisional.”

The System Works If We Will Work It

Tim:

But if you had people who didn’t have integrity you could look and go, “Wait a second, I don’t care if they don’t have a good I.D., I’m not going to make them vote provisional we’re going to make sure this vote counts etc.. You got to have the right kind of people – people with integrity that are working the system. Because the system works if we will work it.

Rick:

Well, folks, if you want to not be that person that only complains about the problem, but you want to be one of those ones that’s part of the solution. There’s so many ways you can be involved. And we talk here a lot about the founders, and the Declaration, well, lives, fortunes, sacred honor. There’s a lot of ways to do those three things. Your life is your time. Giving of your time to study the Constitution, to study candidates, to put these voter guides together, to tell your friends and family about it.

Fortunes – making contributions. Yes, literally giving of your fortune to invest in good candidates out there, donating to campaigns, donating organizations like WallBuilders to help us spread the word. That’s a big part of how you preserve freedom.

And then sacred honor is speaking the truth. Even sometimes to a culture that thinks they don’t want to hear it. But honestly, the culture’s really tired of this shifting sand. They want truth. So, you can help in all three of those ways.

Voting: Keeping The Duty Secure With Ken Blackwell

Rick:

Go to WallBuilders.com today. You’ll get all kinds of great ideas for what you can do in your community. You can learn how to get involved in voter guides. Download our voter guides and get them out this season in the election season. And then you can make that contribution one time or monthly to WallBuilders Live and make it possible for us to continue to spread this good news. We so appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.