War On Christmas. Tim Wildmon joins us today to talk about the AFA’s annual Naughty and Nice List and why it is so important.
Air Date: 12/13/2016
Guests: Tim Wildmon, American Family Association
- WallBuilders | American historical events, founding fathers, historical documents, books, videos, CDs, tapes, David Barton’s speaking schedule.
- AFA Naughty and Nice List
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Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.
* Playing the song, “Home For The Holidays”
That plays all day. Yep! It’s Christmastime and you found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Is that Randy Travis I hear?
That is Randy Travis you hear.
David Barton you found a way to find Christmas music that we could both go, “Yeah, thumbs up!”
I mean, you know, I can play my Stryper “Winter Wonderland,” and then you’ve got your Bing Crosby but you found the middle ground in Randy Travis. I’m impressed.
There you go, Bro. Something special for you. Early Christmas gift for you, man.
War On Christmas Continues
All right! Good Christmas, Christmastime it is. And of course, at Christmastime, we talk about the war on Christmas and the question of whether or not here in America you can still say Merry Christmas just about anywhere.
Rick, I have read a number of articles saying that there is no War on Christmas. Where do you get the War on Christmas, nonsense?
It must be all of those nativity scenes that I see on every corner now because they haven’t been removed by government entities and lawsuits from Freedom From Religion Foundation and others, I guess. Maybe it’s the companies that say to their employees, “You can’t say, ‘Merry Christmas,’ because someone might be offended and we want to get rid of Christ in Christmas,” or maybe it’s all the eczema signage. I don’t know. I guess I made it up on my own.
Which Rick, to that thought of all the Nativity scenes that are not visible. My dad I were just driving through a pretty large town here in Texas and drove right by the courthouse and on their courthouse they had every imaginable Christmas decoration possible. There were hundreds of different Santa’s, reindeer, elf, snowman, and literally, I think there were probably a hundred different decorations up. But there was no nativity scene.
People Cowering Down In Texas?!
And I thought, “That’s really interesting because you have somebody that realizes, “You know what, we don’t want to get in trouble. We don’t want to make people angry and people are going to get offended. So we’re just not going to put this up.” Even though this is Texas. You wouldn’t think that this is a place where people would be cowering down.
And this rural Texas. This is actually a county seat in rural Texas. Outside the county courthouse -Tim is right, there were literally hundreds of every imaginable thing. They had Western Christmas, Pioneer Christmas, and they had everything except Jesus Christmas.
And I think the word Christmas is kind of based around the word Christ. And I think even from a dictionary it relates to something about the birth of Christ. I think even the federal holiday that says Christmas is related to birth of Christ. But apparently Christmas is about everything except that. But I don’t think there’s a war on Christmas. I think you guys are on the right are making that up. It doesn’t exist.
Yeah, I’d be curious to know even in that small town, you know, for how many years they probably did have a nativity scene. Often in a lot of our towns, they would have live nativity scenes and we used to have just incredible, full blown- churches would come out and do the whole thing. And some places I guess they still do.
Biblical, Historical, Constitutional Perspective
By the way I fell down on my job. I’m supposed to say at the beginning of our program- Welcome to WallBuilders Live! If you’re not familiar with us, you’re listening to David Barton. He’s America’s premiere historian Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor. And my name is Rick Green a former Texas state representative.
We’re a pro-family organization presenting America’s forgotten history and heroes with an emphasis on our religious, moral, and constitutional heritage. That means we’re going to look at all the issues of the day from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. We’ll usually get the right answer if we take those three approaches
In this one today guys were just talking about what is going to happen this Christmas. What are companies going to be doing this Christmas in terms of whether or not their employees can say Merry Christmas . And for those that may think we’re kind of you ,know, mega- as David said, “You guys are making up this war on Christmas thing.” We hear that all the time.
Why Does It Matter To Keep Christ In Christmas?
Or why does it even matter? As we come back from the break, we’re talking about why it matters to keep Christ in Christmas . Even in the way we advertise it in our country. Stay with us! We’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!
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Playing Stryper “Winter Wonderland”
I think somebody is throwing me a bone here. I think it that I get my Christmas music. I like it! So little a little bit of old Stryper “Winter Wonderland” there. You know, I’m worried, guys, because I think I’m to get hate mail for sounding like I didn’t like Bing Crosby in the last segment. I’m not sure how that came across, but you know, I like “White Christmas.” It’s good. It’s good.
Why Is It Important To Talk About Christmas?
But it is Christmastime. Our chance to play even more Christmas music than normal. But why is Christmas important? Why is it important to keep Christ in Christmas? Why do we talk about the Naughty and Nice List and what companies are doing? David, Tim, why is it so important?
Well, one of the things you got is we’re told in the Bible, for example. I think it’s in 1 Timothy 2:8 it says, “Remember Jesus Christ,” for the same reason we’re told in Romans 1 to keep God in our thinking. That when he gets out of our thinking, our behavior changes. And so it is that if you can eradicate the thinking about God, if you can become less God conscious. Less Christ conscious it changes your behavior.
So that’s why we do things, We remember things. That’s why in the Bible we’re told to remember our history. That’s why and so many things. In politics we keep going back to first principles. That’s why we tell people to go back and reread the Constitution because when you forget about it and get away from it, your behavior changes. When people in office don’t know the Constitution they don’t live by it and therefore, has no effect on them.
Naughty And Nice List
Same with Christ and keeping Christ in Christmas. Christmas is a special holiday. It is one dedicated to Jesus Christ. It is not just another holiday. It is a special holiday. And you don’t want it to become just another holiday. So that’s the key.
Along with that, you know we’re talking before that we’re going to look at the Naughty and Nice List. And that’s businesses. And when do you get into businesses that moves into something that deals with both Biblical and historical and constitutional issues. And that is economics and in economics a free market system is actually the way that the Bible promotes. There are three free market lessons that Jesus Himself gave in Matthew 20.
That’s what we try to do through the Constitution with the full faith and credit. You want that free market flowing back and forth among the states. That’s historically what we’ve had a free market system in a free market system you get lots of choices. In other systems that the less free market is the less choices you have. And so with choices, we can choose what we want to support and what we don’t want to support. And if we know that there are companies out there who want to keep Christ out of Christmas we can make choices not to support them. And that’s a legitimate choice we can all make just as we can choose.
Free Market System, Vote For Companies That Keep Christ In Christmas
I just got a new truck. I had a choice of several different brands of truck. I chose the brand that I wanted. That’s a choice that I can make and we can do the same thing with Christmas and buyer economics, buyer dollars, by the free market. We can reward those who want to keep Christ in Christmas and therefore have more of that. Or we can reward those who want to take Christ out of Christmas and therefore move the nation in the wrong direction.
And in a free market and even at Christmastime, we should be more driven by principles than we are by pocketbook. And so often at Christmas and there these great sales and money in this place. We love this thing and they have this thing that we really want to get. But if we’re driven by principle- now wait a second. Especially, for WallBuilders where we are so much into promoting this religious, moral, constitutional heritage of our Constitutional Republic as we’re looking at it. And so what things do we need?
Well, George Washington said that religion or morality are the pillars that you have to build this nation on if it’s going to last. Well, the basis of that whole religion and morality thing, that’s Christianity. That’s Jesus. Which really we’re now talking about even Christmas that’s the reason for the season.
The Only Way Freedom Works Is If You Have A Moral People
And so this is something where as principled individuals, our principles have to be bigger than our pocketbook. In the sense of we’re not just looking for the best deal, we want to spend our money where there are people that are promoting those right kind of values. Knowing that one of the things the Founding Fathers said so well and frankly, quite often, is the only way Freedom Works is if you have a moral people.
The highest standard of morality is found in Christianity which is really rooted in Christ. Obviously, God sending his Son Jesus to this earth- Jesus set the example gave the tone of what morality is. The more secular a nation becomes, the more secular their behavior becomes. And really that means immoral and therefore freedom does not work. If we want to maintain a moral people, we need a religious people. But specifically Christianity because that’s the highest standard of religion.
Well, Christmas is no small thing in that. If we can say, “Hey, we don’t want Christ to be part of Christmas, that’s offensive and we don’t want those things there.” If you remove Christ from Christmas, all you have now is another secular holiday. And the more secular we become the less freedom we will enjoy in our future.
And the good thing about this is there are folks out there who spend a lot of time going through and looking at businesses. And which ones specifically work, overtly work to say, “Hey, we don’t want Christ in Christmas. And by the way you called us and notified us of that and we’re still going to stay with the policy by keeping Christ out of Christmas.” And there are other businesses that are very, very straight forward and say, “Hey, we think this is a great holiday and we’re proud to acknowledge Christ in Christmas.”
American Family Association; Naughty and Nice List
And so Tim Wildmon the American Family Association, every year they come out with this list. They not only find the businesses by looking at their advertising and what they do in catalogs, online, etc., but they even call the businesses to say, “Hey are you guys intentionally keeping Christ out of Christmas? Or are you wanting to keep this a religious free holiday?” And you know, they give them a chance, in other words, to come on the good list if they want to. And if they don’t, then they stay on the Naughty List. So the Naughty and Nice List comes out every year with Tim Wildmon. And we’ve got Tim on to talk about who made the list this year.
So you mean we don’t we don’t have to go do all this research as an individual? If I want my dollars to count well and I want to choose companies that do celebrate Christmas with us and not prevent that from happening? I don’t have to go figure it out myself? They’ve got a list we can start? We can go right to that list, you can actually get on your phone and be able to look at it while you’re out there shopping.
Tim Wildmon is going to tell but tell us about it when we return. Stay with us! You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!
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*Playing “Silent Night”
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live! Our good friend Tim Wildmon is with us from American Family Association. Tim, always a pleasure, man. Thanks for coming back.
Rick, good to be with you.
Hey, it’s it’s Christmas time. You know Barton is playing Christmas music left and right as usual. That’s nothing new. That’s all year long. But it’s getting all of us in the Christmas Spirit. It’s time to do some shopping. Man, you guys have a great list. Naughty or Nice retailer list list so we know where to go.
Yeah, Rick, we do this every year. This is so people know what stores do and don’t recognize Christmas. We know that a lot of businesses make their living off Christmas shopping. And then you get some of those stores who don’t want to acknowledge what it is that people are shopping for. You know, I always get a kick out of the holiday shopping, holiday shopping. Well, I don’t about you, Rick, but I don’t buy Thanksgiving gifts,
Kids don’t come downstairs on New Year’s wanting to know what’s under the— Well, there’s no tree because it’s a Christmas tree. So people shop for Christmas.
Wait a minute. That’s a great idea though, Tim. Maybe on July 4th every year for Independence Day, you should buy me an Independence Day gift.
But I like that idea.
Laughter…. You like that?
Correct. Yeah yeah. I like that. Let’s start doing that. Let’s do it. But I get your point, definitely.
I mean, so we what we do is we see what companies are acknowledging Christmas and what companies are not. And we post them on our website where people can shop with the ones that acknowledge Christmas. So that’s available out there. I will tell you where it’s available by AFA.net/ChristmasList.
And this is the Naughty and Nice List. You actually list both. So you list the companies that are you know unapologetically-
I would get a lot of nice. When we started doing this, we’ve re-contacted a lot of these companies who were not acknowledging Christmas. And we said, “Hey, what’s up? You know this is the Christmas season. You want to acknowledge Christmas in your stores and in your advertising.” And a lot of them said, “Hey, you know what, you’re right.” And so they added them. So we’ve got a good list. And there’s a lot of places you can go shopping with during the Christmas season. Just go to our list and check it out.
And there’s some of those that used to be on the Naughty List and straightened up and got on the Nice List. And then you got some marginals that are you know they’re kind of out there but don’t mention it much. And then the Naughty List are the ones that just refuse to let their employees say, “Merry Christmas.”
They Want To See Christmas Eradicated From The Public Because It Reminds Them Of Jesus Christ.
Right right. Yeah. There’s too many to name. So go and check it out. AFA.Net/ChristmasList. I tell you another thing about this is, Rick. The deeper issue here is that there are many secular liberal, secular progressive, whatever you want to call them here in America who want to see a Christmas eradicated from the public. They don’t like the word Christmas because it reminds them of Jesus Christ. And why we celebrate the birthday.
And so the more they can denigrate that, the more they can erase that from our public consciousness, the better out they think the world will be. We think quite the opposite. That this is the time of year when the world around us needs to be reminded that the Son of God, Jesus Christ, came to earth 2000 years ago to die for our sins and to give us hope for eternity.
Amen. And in so it’s not just, you know, people just want to be —
–We just want to be nice and all that. I mean, there’s actually an agenda out there. To change the American culture.
Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That’s what you started seeing happening about 10 years ago. We started noticing that the word Christmas. A lot of it was it was PC to not use the word Christmas. Everything was holiday — which there is nothing wrong with that word, either. But they wanted to diminish the role of the specialness of Christmas in America.
And that’s why we’ve said, “No, we want to see Christmas remain special in America. We want the word to be used. We want the celebration to be part of who we are as a nation.” And you know what, our country- we shut down the federal government on December 25th. So you know, that’s- it’s a federal holiday. There’s no other federal holiday that acknowledges a religion the way Christianity is acknowledged at that time of year.
Why Go Spend Christmas Money In A Place Where They Fund The Opposite Of What I Believe?
Tell me if I’m just being, I don’t know, snarky about this. But I just feel like a sucker. If I go spend money somewhere that is actually funding people that are really the opposite of everything I believe and are working to undermine and change America into something I was never –I mean, I just feel like a sucker if I go spend that much money then they take it and turn around and use it to destroy everything I care about. Shouldn’t we pay attention to that? I mean, I know a lot of Christians – it’s just not, we don’t even. It’s not on our radar. But it should matter.
That’s why groups like ours and what you do there. That’s why it’s important. We do the research for you, so you can see for yourself the good guys and the bad guys are. So that we can support good companies.
You know we’re still advocating that people stay away from Target. Target has suffered greatly. They’ve been stubborn about it. I don’t know how much longer they can afford to be. But you know they’re the ones in April that say that, “We welcome men into women’s restrooms and changing areas. We think that’s a great idea.”
And they still haven’t changed that?
At Least 1.5 Million Families Boycott Target
They haven’t changed that. They’ve had it. They spend 20 million dollars building restrooms, single occupancy restrooms, or family restroom. Which are good to have in stores. But they think that’s the answer – not revoking their policy.
We tell them that’s not the answer. It’s good that you have this. If you want to tell the trans-gendered people to go into those restrooms and having a man who think they’re women going into those changing areas, then we’re all for you doing that.
But anyway, they’ve lost — there’s one almost 1.5 million families have pledged to boycott Target. And that’s the people that we know about who signed our boycott Target pledge sheet.
You know we’re talking a billion dollar effect. I mean this has had a huge impact on them.
Yeah. Their stock went way down. It’s bounced back a little bit. They’re in store, what they call foot traffic, is way down. At one point they were offering 15 percent off. The other day, when they were offering 50 percent off in-store and online. That’s almost unheard of. In other words, they’re trying to get the customers they lost to come back in their stores.
You know, obviously, I hope they reverse themselves. Change the policy and all that. But here again, I don’t want to be a sucker. I don’t want to reward those and put my money in the hands of those if they were foolish enough to make that decision. You know have that world view. I don’t know how–
You can vote the ballot box. You can vote with your pocketbook.
That’s right. That’s right. I love it. Well, good stuff. So it’s the Naughty and Nice List. We can go to AFA.net right now. We’ll have a link to the WallBuilders radio site to make it easy. But you can go there. You can get it on your phone. So while you’re out shopping and doing all that hard work to get all those gifts. Make sure you put that money where it’s going to count and not reward bad behavior.
Tim Wildmon, always good to have you, Bro.
Thanks to you for helping us promote this. Appreciate it.
You bet. Merry Christmas. Stay with us folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
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*Playing “The First Noel”
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live! Yeah, it’s Christmastime. Only a couple of weeks left. Actually, so part of that adoring him and honoring him is simply acknowledging him.
We’re back here with David and Tim Barton talking about the need to acknowledge Christ at Christmas. And guys, we can do that even in the way we shop, where we spend our money.
Well you know, Tim mentioned he wasn’t going to read through the list but I’m going to. Well, I’m not going to. But I’m going to read through at least the Naughty List. And these are the folks that as he mentioned, they contact these guys and give him a chance to take a position. But those who chose to stay on the wrong side of Christmas were: Academy Sports Outdoors, Barnes and Noble, Best Buy, Dollar General, Family Dollar, Foot Locker, Gap, Limited, Maurices, Nordstrom, Office Depot, OfficeMax, Petsmart, Staples, Stein Mart, SUPERVALU, uncommongoods.com, and Victoria’s Secret.
So those are the ones that didn’t want to move over. Didn’t want to be on the other side. Other than that, there are some on the marginal list. But there are a ton of folks who are happy to keep Christ in Christmas and that’s sure where I intend to head with my money. And Rick, you mentioned something and asked if literally, if you’re being snarky to say, “Hey, I’m not going to spend my money there.”
I tell ya. For me, I don’t think it’s snarky. It’s like Starbucks for me. You know Starbucks has made it very clear they have no desire to be neutral on the marriage issue. They don’t want to serve both sides. They said, “Hey, we’re going to take our profits. We’re going to put it into efforts and overturn traditional marriage.”
You know what. Why would I give them money? Why would I put my money and help them make profit to attack what I believe? It’s like me make it a contribution Freedom from Religion Foundation or Right Wing Watch or anything else. It doesn’t even make sense. I don’t think that is being snarky.
And by the way, it’s not that dissimilar with Target saying,j”We’re going to let men in women’s restrooms”. It’s not that much different in the sense that this is something that’s very much against the value system of what we hold. And so to say, “Hey, we’re going to do that.”
Nice List: Ross
By the way, I was actually shopping picking up some things at Ross today. And when I was in Ross I was checking out. And there was a manager at the end of the aisle. And so I was at the end of the checkout aisle and as I’m checking out, I’m getting my bag and I’m leaving, the manager says, “Hey, Merry Christmas.”
And I turned around, “Have a Merry Christmas.” And then it occurred to me – Wait. She said. “Merry Christmas.” So I turned around. I said, “Hey, by the way, thank you for saying, ‘Merry Christmas.’ She said. “Oh, I’m always going to say, ‘Merry Christmas.’”
And I just thought, “I’m so glad that in this politically correct motivated society we’re now living in, that there are still people that understand – no way. We know why Christmas is here. We know what the reason is.”
But what it did when she said that is it made me think, “You know what, I’m going to come back and I’m going to find something else to buy here. Because I want to support her store because what she is promoting that is what I want to support. And so I’m going to vote with my pocketbook with my checkbook, just like you guys were talking about. And I’m going to do that. This Naughty and Nice List is another great way to find places where you can support or not support as is the case were, people that have those values we want to support.
And we’ll have a link today so you can get to the list very easily. Also we had Matt Staver on a week or so ago on the same subject. I have a link to his list as well.
And don’t forget you’re doing that Christmas shopping gift some gifts that really count. I mean gifts with a purpose. Even as you go to that AFA list. Go to AFA online store and get some great materials there. Go to WallBuilders.com today get some great history materials and educational materials for those that you love. It’s a great way to give the gift of freedom as well this Christmas.
Thanks for listening today. Merry Christmas. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live!
*Closing out with, “O Holy Night”